Boomer Living Senior Living Broadcast

Hanh: 00:00:00
Welcome to Boomer Living Broadcast, where we explore the exciting blend of AI. Aging and the digital innovation. I'm Hanh Brown, and together with AI50 and Microsoft Startup, our goal is very simple, to make AI understandable and useful for everyone. Our approach is rooted in Azure's technology, focusing on building a unified AI ecosystem that is

Hanh: 00:00:27
safe, private, and cost effective, particularly for senior care. Our journey isn't just about cutting edge technology, it's about creating a connected world where AI solutions are easy, safe, and designed with everyone in mind, especially for the aging population. So we're dedicated to developing a unified AI platform that enhances life quality and bring us closer together.

Hanh: 00:01:00
So each week we dive into discussions with experts about how this AI. Unified AI ecosystem is transforming businesses and lives of older adults. So whether you're a professional in the senior care, a caregiver, or just simply keen on the intersection, aging, health, and tech, this is a spot for you for engaging conversations and much insights. So join us as we pave the way

Hanh: 00:01:28
towards a more connected and compassionate era of senior care. So let's get started. So today's topic is data alchemists transforming numbers into insights. And our guest today is Skogata, Skogata Ashwani, the principal data scientist at Lume. She stands out with her expertise in health informatics.

Hanh: 00:01:55
and machine learning. A Carnegie Mellon graduate, she has a rich background in applying machine learning to mental health research. Her professional journey includes significant roles at Amazon and Deloitte, highlighting her diverse skills in data science and cyber risk management. She's also an active contributor in the data science community.

Hanh: 00:02:19
She advocates for explainable AI and gender equality. Sharing her knowledge through various platforms and her leadership role at Women in Data. So her work exemplifies A commitment to innovation and making technology accessible and transparent. So Swagata, welcome to the show.

Swagata: 00:02:41
Thank you so much for the warm welcome.

Hanh: 00:02:43
Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. So can you share with us something about yourself? Professionally or personally?

Swagata: 00:02:52
Absolutely. So, like you said, my current role is at Boomi. I am working as a principal data scientist. And apart from my professional journey so far in data science, I actively collaborate and work towards women in data and those kind of initiatives that focus on bridging

Swagata: 00:03:06
the gap between like gender diversity. So I want more women to get involved in, in tech and educate them and mentor them. And a couple of years ago, when I was looking for a job, not just job, like getting more involved in the data field and AI field, I did not have that much of outreach. And I had to like literally reach out to people on LinkedIn.

Swagata: 00:03:28
So I wanted to create a platform where it's easy for people to Especially women to come together, share their insecurities, share what they want to do in life, how they want to get there and create an ecosystem where they can learn and contribute and get involved in the field of AI. And I also, uh, like you mentioned in the introduction, I am very passionate about

Swagata: 00:03:48
explainable AI because as AI is advancing at the pace that it is, it's extremely overwhelming and sometimes it gets difficult to understand what's happening behind all of these complicated models. And, uh, so I wanted to. educate people on how they can use these tools, uh, whether they just want to understand why certain prediction was made or they want to just explore what's

Swagata: 00:04:12
the possibility of what AI can do. These kind of tools can, can educate them and they can learn what their systems are doing in a better way.

Hanh: 00:04:20
Mm hmm. Bless you for that mission. And I echo that. I love what you're doing. If there's any way that we can add value, I'd love to. So, in the critical sectors like healthcare and finance, explainable AI is becoming incredibly important. So, can you discuss why transparency

Hanh: 00:04:36
in AI models is so crucial for accountability and trust in these fields?

Swagata: 00:04:44
Absolutely. Absolutely. So a couple of years ago, I was working for a healthcare insurance, health insurance company, and we were building a tool which would suggest where the patient should be discharged after a post acute condition. Now, again, this, when it comes to healthcare, machine learning can

Swagata: 00:05:04
only aid, it cannot dictate because Ultimately, it's, it's so important to make a decision with, with doctors and physicians who are experts. So, it's only going to act as an aid, but with the current technology, I see that the, the predictions that are made are so detailed and, uh, we need to, we need to understand like why a certain prediction was made.

Swagata: 00:05:25
So, let's say I'm giving a suggestion, hey, this, this person who has been, Uh, on rehab now needs to extend his, his or her rehab period. Um, there needs to be an explanation as to why that particular decision was made so that even the physician or doctors or whoever are validating that decision understand, okay, this is the reason. And yes, I think I agree or I don't agree.

Swagata: 00:05:48
And for physicians to trust the system, trust the AI models, it's important that it's transparent so that they can trust it and then rely on it a little bit more than, than. the current situation.

Hanh: 00:06:00
I think what you said about it can be an aid, certainly not a replacement. Of course. Because these are data points that's gathered and it's from, you know, abundance of data and, and, and I think. The point, you know, how people say, you know, they're worried about job replacement, which is very real, but I think more so, um, it is your companion.

Hanh: 00:06:21
It is your co pilot, not necessarily to replace you. So it's all in your mindset and how you form your model and execute your prompts.

Swagata: 00:06:30
Absolutely. I agree. It's not going to replace you. It's only going to aid you and make you do like more creative and strategic tasks. So, enjoy. Enjoy this.

Hanh: 00:06:39
Yeah, no, I agree. I think it, it could make you to be more the improved version of yourself, you know?

Swagata: 00:06:47
Yeah, absolutely.

Hanh: 00:06:48
So, now, what challenges do developers face when creating transparent AI models? And how do you, or how do they overcome this?

Swagata: 00:06:59
So a lot of available tools that we have that are trying to solve the explainable AI, uh, they are focusing on, um, they're called like post modeling phase. So let's say you build a model. And now I'm trying to use a tool that will be able to explain that AI model. So as a developer, I am building something which will try to understand

Swagata: 00:07:23
something that already exists. And sometimes the explanation may not be a hundred percent accurate. Uh, whereas there are other kinds of research that is happening where while you are building the model itself. You try to understand it rather than doing the post analysis work. So if we, if we are able to design something which is a combination of

Swagata: 00:07:45
both, that will be very powerful. Right now, the biggest struggle is that, hey, we, we are providing this explanation, but we don't know whether it's 100 percent accurate or not. And that itself, uh, poses a big, big question mark whether or not should we trust this system, which it's saying that it's, it doesn't know whether the explanation is valid or not.

Swagata: 00:08:04
But apart from that are other challenges. Convincing, convincing people that explanation is, is so important because a lot of times people just want to build something and they, they, they're okay with that being a black box and, you know, as long as, as you get it done, that's more than enough, but they don't invest enough time in, in getting into the explainability aspect of it because

Swagata: 00:08:24
it's still a nice to have feature, it's not the most critical feature. So if you are able to tackle those two roadblocks, I think we have a, we'll have a very good product in AI. And people will trust it more.

Hanh: 00:08:38
Yeah. Because when you say the word black box, well, you know, when you, when we're trying to encourage businesses to use AI, we cannot work in a black box.

Swagata: 00:08:49
Yeah.

Hanh: 00:08:50
Right.

Swagata: 00:08:51
Yeah.

Hanh: 00:08:51
And then not to mention the, the key component in this is trust. And when you work in a vacuum. You do not earn trust. So it's very important. And I keep thinking too, you know, we're not in the business of building models. We're in a business of solving problems to enhance productivity, efficiency, um, in the business,

Hanh: 00:09:08
but ultimately the consumers.

Swagata: 00:09:13
Absolutely. Yeah.

Hanh: 00:09:15
Yeah. So now, in your view, how can organizations balance the complexity of AI models, with the need for transparency to ensure trust?

Swagata: 00:09:25
I think, um, a lot of it will come with experimentation and showing the value of it. So for example, in my organization or organizations, I've been part of, uh, just presenting the value of it in terms of metrics and, and, and yeah, metrics mainly like. Hey, hypothetically, if we have explainability, what will your

Swagata: 00:09:47
tool look like and how it will set you apart from other people who are doing the same business? That is a key, uh, key metric to like force them or like try to trying to make them see the value of it. So that's something that I've been trying to advocate. People that I work with that's, Hey, if we incorporate this, this is how your

Swagata: 00:10:06
product will look like and how it's going to add value to your product and how people will trust it more, use it more. And in the end, everybody's a winner. So, so investing that little bit time and energy and putting resources into this research, it will go a long way. So I think that's something that people who are trying to get into this field are trying to encourage their employers

Swagata: 00:10:25
can do something like pitch it, do some, run some simple experiments. There are open source tools that are available, which are very easy to use, play with it and just just show a demo and it will definitely convince anyone and everyone who are trying to get into it.

Hanh: 00:10:41
Mm hmm. You know, I agree. Even for myself, I think just like anything, power comes responsibility. Absolutely. And. Yeah. Many people are shy, reluctant, fearful, you know, for right reasons, but I always say start small and

Hanh: 00:10:53
gain confidence on those small wins. And then once you experience the wins and realize, well, gee, I just say X amount of hours or even tasks, you'll be amazed.

Swagata: 00:11:11
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. Small wins and like small, simple experiments can go a long way.

Hanh: 00:11:19
Yeah. And then you slowly. Take on bigger tasks to improve the efficiency and productivity and so forth. But, um, you know, for someone to come to, let's say you, I said, you know, so how do I integrate AI? I always tell people, you know, I don't know your business. I cannot tell you how to integrate,

Hanh: 00:11:37
but I would ask first that. It's always best if you know what your pain points are, right? Because through those pain points, that's where we can integrate AI, you know, steps at a time so that for you to gain confidence because, um, it's, it's, it's not a silver bullet solution. It's, it's a enhancement augmentation, not a replacement, but you

Hanh: 00:12:04
still need to know your business and where you want to enhance. Yeah. It's not going to do that for you if you don't already know that.

Swagata: 00:12:12
Yeah, that's where like domain knowledge is so important because if you don't have domain knowledge, how are you going to use AI for your specific needs?

Hanh: 00:12:20
Right, right. And even a consultant, I got to tell you, you can't. You can't justify, explain, or sell the idea of AI. I think that's very unique to the business. They have to go through that journey and come to a realization. You know, here are my pain points.

Hanh: 00:12:38
Yeah. And here's how I need help in. And then that collaboration is much more fruitful. Because to tell a business who might think. I'm doing great. Yeah. Who needs this? And not to mention, I gotta go through

Hanh: 00:12:51
a learning curve and then one might think of all the possible reasons why it doesn't work because that's true. It may not work right away. There is a learning curve. So I guess what I'm saying is there's a huge paradigm shift, uh, aside from the technology shift?

Swagata: 00:13:12
True, true. And sometimes I also think that everybody doesn't need AI for their solution. It could be sometimes that you learn that what this technology does. And you can start small, it could be like a simple rule based thing that you develop first, and then you slowly iterate and add certain components of AI models. Most people try to jump into that

Swagata: 00:13:31
AI buzz because we need to do it because everybody else is doing it. But, but you can start small, see what fits you and then iteratively get involved more.

Hanh: 00:13:43
I echo that. If it doesn't solve So if you have a problem of yours, it doesn't do anything. It's a fad and we know that it's not. It's here, it's huge, it's too big to ignore and it can be very integral to your day to day productively.

Swagata: 00:14:01
Yeah. I agree.

Hanh: 00:14:03
So now, you've experienced a progression from senior to principal roles. Within major tech firms. So can you share some insights on how this career evolution unfolded and the new challenges that it brings?

Swagata: 00:14:16
Yeah, absolutely. So I think the major aspect when you change roles from whatever position you are and get onto the next level, the key aspect I have observed at any organization is you already need to be performing at a senior level, if you're a junior, for some time to be recognized and, and to get onto the next level. So for example, if you're at a

Swagata: 00:14:36
senior level and you're an individual contributor, you're doing your day to day tasks, you're, you're reporting to your manager, that's good. But if you want to get on to the next level, take a look at what are the requirements for the next level. Like, like let's say for in my case, the additional responsibilities were. You also need to mentor junior

Swagata: 00:14:55
people in the team, guide them and, and, and work with them. What can they do better? So guiding, guiding and mentoring is a very important aspect as you go on to your next level. So start doing that and, and people will recognize that. And on top of that, you have to do certain things beyond your day to

Swagata: 00:15:14
day responsibility to be recognized. So be proactive. Let's say if your organization is doing partnering with other teams on some research initiatives or some, some small. Experiments or POCs get involved and volunteer and say, Hey, I, I would like to get involved in this initiative. What can I do? So, and not just technical stuff, maybe

Swagata: 00:15:33
you can, you can volunteer to organize a team meeting or team gathering outside of your work, um, team building activities or doing things which are beyond your, you know, to do's requirements. You start doing that and people will notice it. And then that's how you, you get onto the next level. So in my case, I was doing that and I was,

Swagata: 00:15:53
I already started mentoring junior data scientists when I was at the senior level. And that just happened organically because we hired a lot of people and they were new to the company. So I just started mentoring them and then eventually, you know, without even realizing organically, you start doing. A little bit more and you enjoy the process, not just like looking at

Swagata: 00:16:15
it as a, as a career progression. You enjoy that process and yeah, that's how it's, it's been great to be honest. Like I enjoy the balance of having a little bit of technical work at the same time, having some domain and leadership work as well at the same time, you know, uh, vouching for different tools and different initiatives like explainable AI and diversity.

Swagata: 00:16:36
So it's, it's a bit of very good, good balance.

Hanh: 00:16:39
Yeah. I can imagine. I think anyone would be grateful to have you as a mentor. And I think that's one of the key attributes of leaders who are on the move is to create leaders. So, yeah, I think that's wonderful. All right. So now what key skills and attributes.

Hanh: 00:16:59
Have you that you think it's essential in advancing to higher roles in the tech industry?

Swagata: 00:17:07
In this day and age? I think having really good knowledge technically. Um, so we say that, hey, I will replace. All the jobs. Only a person who understands AI can use AI, right? So if you don't understand what the code is doing or what your model is doing, you're not going

Swagata: 00:17:24
to be able to make best use of it. So having good fundamental knowledge in, in data science or AI or whatever field you're choosing. That is, again, very important. Even if you think that, Oh, I can, I can Google it, or I can, I can use your fundamentals have to be very strong for you to, to proceed in, in, in this technical field, apart from that,

Swagata: 00:17:44
I think good communication skills, it's very important as you proceed in your, in your career, because only if you're able to share your findings. Uh, to leadership or to management or convince that what you've done is, is good enough. That's, that's the key to, to have a good, uh, good progression in your career. So communication, good technical skills.

Swagata: 00:18:09
And also like we do something apart from, like I said, like do some mentoring, organize events, volunteer. Those kind of things really, uh. We'll have a long term effect rather than immediate effect. So I think if you do these three, you, you are in a good position.

Hanh: 00:18:25
Mm hmm. Yeah, very true. So, can you discuss, let's say, a particular challenge you face in an AI project and how did you address it?

Swagata: 00:18:34
Uh, yeah. So we've been trying to, um, build like something, uh, for our company, which is similar to what Most companies are doing like the chat GPT equivalent. So the main issue that most companies and us as well face is the privacy issue, because These AI models, as promising they sound, as good they are, they, it's difficult for us to trust them, again, I

Swagata: 00:18:59
think because of we don't want to share our customers or private data with them because we don't understand, understand what's happening in the black box. Uh, the data privacy issue has become a key challenge. So we've been looking for things where, hey, can we leverage these AI models and create something of our own? So that we are still protecting our data

Swagata: 00:19:20
and, and taking care of that privacy issues at our end rather than giving some third party the entire control. So the way we try to solve this privacy issue was, was using some fine tuning techniques. So we took the existing AI model and, and just fine tuned it in our own ecosystem so that we don't, we have the, we have the power and we can control

Swagata: 00:19:45
the privacy and we don't compromise on, on the privacy of our customers. So I think that is one of the biggest concern people have with these AI models. So fine tuning has become also a very good option that people can look into rather than giving that black box model control. You just take in, understand it, tweak it a little bit with your own data, and then you have the control

Swagata: 00:20:05
of your security infrastructure.

Hanh: 00:20:10
Wow. You hit it right on the dot because the fact that you said ecosystem, that's huge. To me, ecosystem is having your own foundation model. That's everything, right? Yeah. And that foundation model is when you take ownership of your data. And data is more than just

Hanh: 00:20:27
information, it's your differentiator. That is what separates you from the rest because let's face it, we all have the same tools. Yeah. We all have the same, but what makes us unique? That represents our brand, our voice, our customers, or the data. Yes.

Hanh: 00:20:46
Never give that away.

Swagata: 00:20:48
Yeah. Never give your data away.

Hanh: 00:20:49
Right. And that is like the underlying, um, understanding of having your own foundation model. And then under the entire ecosystems where you might not only have a chat assistance, you could have multitudes, whatever that might be over time, but the key is. You own the, the ecosystem driven by AI and I think until then you

Hanh: 00:21:16
truly reap the benefits of AI.

Swagata: 00:21:18
I agree completely. Yes.

Hanh: 00:21:21
Yeah. All right. So let's move to ethics of machine learning. So ethical management of sensitive data is critical in machine learning, especially in fields like healthcare. So can you elaborate on the ethical consideration and practices, that should be put in place?

Swagata: 00:21:39
Yes. So, um, that's very important. Like you have to ensure that you are making sure that you are like following all the regulations like healthcare. A lot of times we build like amazing tools, but we are not able to get into the deployment or the production level because of some regulations. So for example, healthcare

Swagata: 00:21:56
has HIPAA regulations. So Anytime you're working in a critical industry, if it's healthcare or finance or legal, first thing is to understand what the regulations are, what I need to do before I even plan out and start building anything technical, whether it's feasible or not. A lot of times people do a lot of research and build great products, but

Swagata: 00:22:19
they're not following the compliance or You are not following the regulations. So the first important thing is to make sure you are compliant. Make sure you follow the regulations. Talk to people if you're not compliant and get it out of the way. That's the first thing to do. And then proceed to building something amazing.

Swagata: 00:22:36
And even inside your data, you have such sensitive data. Make sure you're following encryption policies or however, whatever the requirements are to make sure your data is secure. Uh, it's encrypted in whatever format that industry needs. So just follow those protocols. It's very easy to do, but most

Swagata: 00:22:52
people neglect it because they focus on building the product. But even if you build a product and it's, it doesn't get out of the window, there's no use. So follow the regulations, follow the policies, follow protocols whenever you're building in, in sensitive industries, especially.

Hanh: 00:23:09
And you know, I keep saying this, we're not in the business of building models. We're in a business of solving problems using AI.

Swagata: 00:23:16
Yeah. I like that a lot, actually.

Hanh: 00:23:18
And you know, to get the best adoption of your product, you have to have the end user forward feedback from the get go. Yeah. And that feedback, first and foremost, should include those guardrails or the policies and the HIPAA and so forth. So that's how you gain adoption from the end users.

Hanh: 00:23:42
And, you know, again, we can't work in a silo. Yeah. Okay. We're not in a business of just building models. It's about solving problems using AI. So I echo what you're saying. Yes. Yes.

Hanh: 00:23:57
Now, safeguards and policies. So is that something driven by the industry, the client? Can you be more definitive on that? Because it sounds like it's, there's not a focal place that would define what those policies are. And it may be. And that is definitive enough.

Swagata: 00:24:16
So it really depends on, on, on company to company and industry to industry. So every industry like healthcare as such has a lot of government regulations and HIPAA. So that is the first layer of filtration you need to do. And the second layer of filtration is like if you're working in

Swagata: 00:24:32
insurance, for example, again there are insurance specific protocols that you need to follow that the insurance industry as a whole follows. And the third layer is. the, the company wide protocol. So depending on your company, there are certain rules and regulations that the company has. For example, in our case, we, uh, as

Swagata: 00:24:49
part of my health insurance experience, uh, we had to follow like, first of all, the HIPAA and then, and then we had company specific rules that, hey, until and unless we get certain number of metrics, um, certain number of users. So we had a set of beta users who were nurses and physicians who used to test our tool unless and until they don't find everything looks good, not just

Swagata: 00:25:16
in terms of model accuracy and those technical aspects, ensure that we are not giving out any personal information. Um, everything is, is in place. So those 200 set of beta users used to fact check everything in the, in the beta version. So there are three layers, I would say. First is the, the industry that you're working on and then the sub industry,

Swagata: 00:25:37
like even inside health, there is, uh, insurance is a different category. So insurance has their own set of rules and protocols and guardrails. And then as a company, what have you set up? So for our case, we had like, hey, these 200 beta users have to approve it. Then only we will release it. So, those are the three layers that

Swagata: 00:25:55
I have worked on and that has worked really well in terms of ensuring that we are ethically grounded.

Hanh: 00:26:02
Mm hmm. Now, have you found a situation where, let's say, your client may not have all those policies in place? And then how do you advise them? Where do you get it?

Swagata: 00:26:14
So a lot of small, smaller companies and startups, I think, have this issue where, where they don't know. Um, a lot of companies in healthcare, they started off to solve the insurance problem and they build in great tools, but they were not compliant and they didn't follow the protocols. And that's, even though they had a great product, they were not able to get it out.

Swagata: 00:26:34
So I think, um, the best practice to do is getting in touch with, with these organizations. Who, who are in charge of making these protocols. So we had a dedicated team inside our organization who used to work with, with, with a compliance team who used to give us the set of, Hey, these are the compliance. These are the latest HIPAA practices.

Swagata: 00:26:56
And these are the things that you need to follow in your product. So, we had a dedicated team who got in touch with, with the, with whoever is writing these protocols and getting in touch with the government organizations and making sure they are up to date and they know what is the latest change and they would just share like bullets with us.

Swagata: 00:27:13
Hey, these are the things you need to follow. And that kind of, because we were a bigger organization, we had that advantage that we have a dedicated team. But if you're a smaller company and you don't know. Get in touch with, with these organizations and, and get it out of the window.

Swagata: 00:27:27
First things before you start even building your product.

Hanh: 00:27:31
So true. So now, how do you foresee the role of ethics evolving in machine learning and data science in the near future?

Swagata: 00:27:41
It's going to be huge. I think now ethics will comprise of a lot of aspects like responsible AI, explainable AI. Privacy, security, compliance. So I think ethics initially was just like being compliant. Now it's going to expand to these newer terms like, you know, responsible AI, where you're making sure that,

Swagata: 00:27:59
that your models are not having any, any kind of bias or, uh, doing some sort of discrimination because of historically how it's trained on it. I've seen examples where, you know, you have these models who are suggesting job and they are biased towards men. So these kinds of things, uh, happen a lot because of the data and our data is biased.

Swagata: 00:28:28
I mean, historically there has been a bias. So how do you ensure that you are making sure you put in the right, uh, techniques in order to make your data more, more balanced? So I think ethical ethics in machine learning and AI is going to expand to a lot more than what it is right now. It's going to expand to responsible AI,

Swagata: 00:28:45
explainable AI, security, privacy, bias. It's, it's going to become a big part of the machine learning process.

Hanh: 00:28:54
I agree. And then as AI advances. All those key elements that you describe are going to be expedient, exponentially huge. And I think, um, it's good for the consumers. It's good for business. You know, it holds us responsible. I think it's a win win if

Hanh: 00:29:09
we all can do this right. And I, I always go back about the ethics, you know, for instance, in my mind, your prompts, your directives will lead you to an output in using AI and ask yourself, do these outputs impose anything negative on your family and your children, let's say, and if your answer is yes, or, you know, you got to rethink. So, put it in a personal perspective.

Hanh: 00:29:37
Absolutely. So, that's how you determine if it's ethical or not. I mean.

Swagata: 00:29:41
Yes, I agree. Yeah. I do that a lot. Like, you know, try to think about it personally. Like, would you do it if you were the CEO or, yeah, that, that makes you, you know, shift your moral compass and, and do the right thing.

Hanh: 00:29:55
Mm hmm. It's AI empathy. And it's, um, it's not technology. It's we directing the output. So, um, all right. So now your work in using machine learning to understand college students emotions is very innovative. So now can you share what you've discovered and how this can help beyond

Hanh: 00:30:16
just students, for instance, older adults?

Swagata: 00:30:19
Absolutely. So I think, um, what, what I did was as part of my research, I was looking into sophomore students. And we luckily got access to some students who volunteered to share their, their text messages, um, Facebook and, and just iMessages for a period of three weeks. And we tried to analyze and their smartphone usage as well.

Swagata: 00:30:41
So using that data was very helpful to understand. Who in that group is more prone to depression or mental illness and uh, interesting find was that there was a very direct relationship between what they post on, on their social media and how much time they use their social media. So people who use. A lot of social media and, um, post a

Swagata: 00:31:01
lot of content related to, you know, what they like on social media, like, for example, on Facebook, if you're liking content related to being alone, of course, that's a very naive example, but things like that are very naive. strong indicators that, that you are not feeling well and you could be depressed in the future. So we, we use that, that learning

Swagata: 00:31:22
and kind of build a tool as a, as a virtual assistant or, uh, which could help you help you talk to somebody and get help if you need it. So the way that tool worked was that nobody wants to, first of all, acknowledge that, that most people do not want to acknowledge that they are facing depression.

Swagata: 00:31:43
So that's the first, the first thing is to make that tool very interactive and very easy to use and very friendly. So it's like a, it's like AI buddy for you. And once you get friendly with it, that's when that tool takes you and asks you, Hey, is the fun, there's a fun therapy session. How can you make therapy sound fun?

Swagata: 00:32:00
Uh, so that tool kind of asks, becomes your friend first, and then navigates you to this, this. This therapy that you might need. So identifying students who are, uh, who could be prone to depression, they are given access to this tool and then they can use it for their advantage. So similarly, I think if you want to draw this parallel to, to older adults,

Swagata: 00:32:22
um, I don't know if they have that much smartphone use phones or they use it or not, but they have to figure out some other, um, Other metrics that we can use and we can get their data from, like, what do they do during the day if we have some, some way of accessing that data, what they do, do on a daily basis. and identify the, the key aspects of how we can help them out and find out

Swagata: 00:32:46
people who are prone to depression or mental health issues and then use the same tool and kind of help them out.

Hanh: 00:32:52
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. No, that's great. I think if we can somehow extrapolate that study outside or beyond of students to older adults, aging population, it's much needed because I think they are the ones suffering from loneliness the most.

Swagata: 00:33:06
Absolutely.

Hanh: 00:33:06
Very crucial work. Now, so how does machine learning help in getting a clear picture of someone's? Emotional health and like what methods did you find most useful?

Swagata: 00:33:19
So first thing is that, um, need to have good domain knowledge. So in our case, we knew that we are targeting teenagers and teenagers spend a lot of time on their smartphones and, and what social media apps they use, uh, where they hang out, their location. Those things were key factors in understanding the domain. And then the second aspect was another

Swagata: 00:33:40
interesting aspect we figured out. Was that whether they are in a relationship or not, because that's also a key indicator of whether you are feeling lonely or have any mental health issues in terms of building machine learning models. That is the easiest part. I would say, like, once you have good data, once you have good understanding of your of your problem and the

Swagata: 00:34:01
solution that you're targeting, building model is pretty straightforward. Like we, we experimented with bunch of popular, uh, machine learning models back. It was, this was five years ago. So we didn't have like very sophisticated models that we have right now, but all the models that we experimented, the classical machine learning models. they gave us pretty good

Swagata: 00:34:20
understanding of why certain people. So once we got a prediction, then we back traced and looked at, okay, these were the features of that person who is suggested as being depressed in the future. And we took a look at what are the common aspects that we can find in all the people that, that were. Predicted to have depression and we could really get really good insights like,

Swagata: 00:34:46
hey, okay, not being in a relationship is one, um, using social media at night at, at those, you know, 3 a. m. and those kind of times is another indicator and liking posts, which are like. You know, very weird, not, not very common, like, you know, feeling lonely, feeling depressed, liking

Swagata: 00:35:01
those kind of posts, another indicator. So those were like good insights we got. Um, there were a couple of anomalies also people in a relationship and using less social media, but also Uh, we found out we're depressed, but then it goes to another, another set of, uh, features like people who have said that, Hey, they've had like some, some childhood trauma or things like that.

Swagata: 00:35:27
So on top of the data that we had from their smartphone, we also did a survey where we had like fill them up some questionnaire. So there were some anomalies we got, like even though they have a childhood trauma. Very early, even now they feel they have those feelings, even though life is really good for them right now with the, they are in a relationship,

Swagata: 00:35:46
they have good academics, uh, they have good friend circles, still maybe sometimes demons of the past haunts them. So it, it was good, like we could get some anomalies as well as, you know, kind of generalize and get some really interesting insights from machine learning.

Hanh: 00:36:01
Mm hmm. Valuable. It's so important to, uh, hone into the, uh, the mental health of teens, mental health of older adults. It's much needed.

Swagata: 00:36:10
Yes.

Hanh: 00:36:11
And I think we're, I'm seeing the delayed effects of COVID. Many of us, I don't think have recovered from the loneliness and isolation from COVID. And uh, it's, it's very unfortunate.

Swagata: 00:36:27
I agree. I agree. We are seeing the side effects of COVID even now. Because, uh, people are still not getting used to the, the work from home setup or, or living in an isolated environment, they're still struggling with it. So yeah, it's interesting to, to have these kinds of tools.

Swagata: 00:36:43
So we, we understand them and help them out. Um, however we can.

Hanh: 00:36:48
So now, the methods that you describe, these machine learning methods, can it be used in other people or in other aspects, you know, other areas?

Swagata: 00:36:59
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you mean apart from mental health?

Hanh: 00:37:02
Mental health and teens? I, I believe it can, but I, I just thought, what do you think, like, where can we use that?

Swagata: 00:37:09
I mean, we can use, uh, the framework that we had for solving any sort of classification problem. Like, let's say we want to classify whether a person. Uh, has diabetes or not, all you need to do is like change, change the data and, and little bit of tweaks here and there. But, but we can apply it to any area as such, wherever we are

Swagata: 00:37:27
trying to predict something.

Hanh: 00:37:29
Mm hmm. So, now, in a field as, um, dynamic as data science, continuous learning is huge. So how, do you approach staying ahead in this rapidly changing field?

Swagata: 00:37:44
It is indeed like in the past, you know, in weeks, certain new tools of fine tuning a large language model comes up. It is very difficult to learn everything. It is impossible. So what I try to do is I try to subscribe to some newsletters, which Kind of give me some concise information. I don't need to learn every fine

Swagata: 00:38:02
tuning technique that is available. I just need to learn the top one or two. So I try to stay ahead by spending time in reading like newsletters or watching some videos, um, which is like 15, 20 minutes a day. And only when I see like, Oh, this is pretty valuable. I need to dive deep into it. Then I would, I would spend

Swagata: 00:38:24
some time and go deep, read some research papers, but I don't. Think anybody has the time to, to learn every single thing that is coming because it's just way too overwhelming. So if you want to do something quick and stay ahead of the, of the curve, just couple of ways is like network with people. If you don't have time for

Swagata: 00:38:43
that, read a newsletter. There are lots of newsletters that give a concise summarized this week's updates on AI. And if you find something which is interesting and caters to your needs or interest. Just, just read about it, and another way of learning a lot is attending conferences at events.

Swagata: 00:39:04
That is something being valuable for me because I attended a couple of conferences and what I learned from those conferences is currently what I'm applying at work. So that's also, and I did, I couldn't find that on online. So it's a mix and it's a combination of multiple things.

Hanh: 00:39:21
So, perhaps online courses. Corsica, is it Corsi? Did I say that right?

Swagata: 00:39:26
Corsera. Corsera.

Hanh: 00:39:27
Corsera. Corsera. Okay. There's, well, when you say Corsera, I mean, that's all you need to say. There's nothing else in my mind. It's really good, you know?

Swagata: 00:39:38
Yes.

Hanh: 00:39:39
Right. I love his work. Andrew Ng is just wonderful. You know.

Swagata: 00:39:44
He is amazing.

Hanh: 00:39:44
Yeah. So online courses like that and, um, networking events.

Swagata: 00:39:50
Absolutely.

Hanh: 00:39:51
Having one on one conversations like this to help kind of complement, supplement your knowledge and maybe even open some views that you thought one way at a point in time and it could make you more well versed, right? And I think the key is adaptable.

Swagata: 00:40:10
Absolutely. You said it right. Like being very adaptable. Um, not being, not living in denial like some people are not willing to accept that, hey, AI is important. So be willing to, to adopt it and adapt with it and learn from it. So yeah, adaptable is the right thing to do right now.

Hanh: 00:40:29
Mm hmm. And then echoing what you said earlier, it's lifelong learning. And adaptability, those two are huge and you don't even need to be a programmer. You don't even need to know Python.

Swagata: 00:40:42
No.

Hanh: 00:40:42
You just need to know how to speak English.

Swagata: 00:40:44
Exactly.

Hanh: 00:40:45
Because that's your prompt.

Swagata: 00:40:46
Yeah, that's what AI has done. It has completely democratized tech for everybody. So all you need to do is just know English and, and, and you can, you can build AI products.

Hanh: 00:40:55
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So true. So now, how do you balance the need for specialized knowledge and broad understanding of emergent trends?

Swagata: 00:41:06
Um, so I think one of the things is like I engage myself in a lot of initiatives apart from work because, you know, when you grow up in growing a career, a lot of times you're doing a lot of managerial and leadership roles. So sometimes it's difficult to get time to do like hands on and learn more things. In your field. So I try to get involved in

Swagata: 00:41:26
initiatives outside of work. For example, like the women in data chapter and talking at conferences about explainable AI. Those things kind of help me dive deeper and brushing up my data science concepts, because I'm not going to just talk about what is this concept, I'm going to show in practice how it's done. So probably where you work on creating

Swagata: 00:41:47
a demo for people to understand, you need to understand it pretty well. So that's how I try to, I try to balance it out, like at work, what you're doing, and then outside of work, you can, you can participate in conferences and networking at the same time, taking. volunteering jobs, uh, so that you, you are, if people are looking up to you, then you have to be, you better be good.

Swagata: 00:42:10
So that's how you.

Hanh: 00:42:13
Yeah. I think social media has opened up plethora of opportunities, right? Yeah. Conferences, virtual or in the physical location. And then it opens up for opportunities to join groups, webinars like this, or just listening in. So the opportunity to learn,

Hanh: 00:42:31
it's out there, abundant. Now, of course, you got to choose what is trustworthy and um, what, uh, like, how, applicable in your niche, right? So, um, I just think it's a great time to innovate, to learn, adapt, and just keep an open mind and be a lifelong learner.

Swagata: 00:42:54
Absolutely. It was a great time to be, be living.

Hanh: 00:42:57
It is. It is. It's almost like Christmas morning, so to speak. You know, I feel that way every time I use. It's like AI to create an image. My eye just like, wow.

Swagata: 00:43:09
Yeah. I cannot imagine not using these tools on a daily basis now. And like it was not there a year ago. So it's amazing.

Hanh: 00:43:19
Yeah, it's, it's amazing, but a little bit scary because As you know, you know, the API, the open API was not working for, I would say half a day here in, in Eastern time.

Swagata: 00:43:29
Yeah.

Hanh: 00:43:30
Boy.

Swagata: 00:43:31
How am I going to work now?

Hanh: 00:43:33
Exactly. So I was gonna say like, what did you do to adapt for those four hours? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. Okay. So as we kind of wrap up towards the end, do you have anything

Hanh: 00:43:46
else that you would like to add?

Swagata: 00:43:48
I mean, I was, I wanted to ask, uh, ask you actually, like, how, um, are you planning to, you know, spread awareness about, it's a very interesting initiative that you have. If you don't mind talking a little bit more about, um, what's the scope of this and what's the, how can we, I mean, me or other people in the community help you out with this initiative?

Hanh: 00:44:08
Yeah. Well, I'm very passionate of enhancing lives of older adults and providing tools, tech care for the aging population. And for the longest time, I've had the idea of providing an ecosystem where it's not just, let's say, senior living, senior care, because I want to focus more than just care. And I don't want to group older

Hanh: 00:44:30
adults in one demographic because there's a wide gamma of folks. I'm an older adult. I'm approaching 60. My needs are very different, 60s to 70s and 80s. But I want to. encompass all of the top issues that we will go through. For instance, affordable

Hanh: 00:44:48
housing, healthcare, senior living, legal issues, right? Saving for long term care, relationship with your spouse or dealing with loss, dealing with grandchildren. It's a big scope that I want to address. But I think it's more possible to keep it under one umbrella now that we have AI. I mean, if you think about it, open AI has this large language

Hanh: 00:45:16
model across the world, right? Older adults is one demographic in that. And I think it's very possible to create one so that a senior will have their own AI assistant that will encompass all of those key components. And I've just mentioned a small glimpse. There are many. That I have not mentioned, but I think you get the gist.

Hanh: 00:45:40
I do. And I think the reason why it's important, because we need to know that they, well, they need to know that, you know, they matter and that there is something, exactly. And that we recognize their concerns. Now when I say we understand, it's hard to say that because, you know, we're not 80s or 90s.

Hanh: 00:45:59
We live with our parents or grandparents, so we see their concerns and we want to ensure that they're not alone. Mm hmm. There are resources out there that can help. And you know, you do feel alone when you go through this because you're surfing on the web.

Swagata: 00:46:14
Mm hmm.

Hanh: 00:46:14
And who do you trust? Where do you go? That's just one component, let's say, affordable housing. Well, what about my health care? What about insurance or legal issues, you know, things of that nature. So my goal is to encompass that into one ecosystem.

Swagata: 00:46:29
That is beautiful. I love that. Let me know if, is there any way I can support you? I would love to do that.

Hanh: 00:46:35
Great. I do. I love to because we're strategizing and um, you know, the key is enhancing lives. And I think it's so important, like what we discussed, AI empathy, AI mental health, it's about improving the quality of lives for people, you know, it's not about building models and it's not about just tech for the

Hanh: 00:46:58
sake of tech, it's enhancing lives.

Swagata: 00:47:01
Absolutely.

Hanh: 00:47:02
And it's not about. replacing people. It's about freeing you up so that you do

Swagata: 00:47:09
things that you like.

Hanh: 00:47:10
The core, the heart, the soul of your business, right? Because I don't like administrative stuff. I don't like setting up meetings, you know, things of that nature. So that is my passion. And, um, with folks like you adding to the conversation. So I'm excited to continue our conversation after this.

Swagata: 00:47:29
Absolutely. I had a lovely time. Thank you so much for inviting me and, and I would love to support your initiative in any way possible.

Hanh: 00:47:36
Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Have a great day.

Swagata: 00:47:41
You too. Thank you.

Hanh: 00:47:42
Bye bye.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Welcome to Boomer Living Broadcast, your go to source for the intersection of aging, AI, and the digital transformation. I'm Hanh Brown, and at AI50, in partnership with Microsoft Startup, we're on a mission to democratize AI. Utilizing Azure's capabilities. We focus on innovation that prioritizes safety, privacy, and affordability, developing an AI ecosystems tailored for

Hanh: 00:00:27
senior care and the aging population. But our mission goes beyond technology. It's about people and creating AI solutions that are accessible, secure, and user friendly. We believe in technology that enriches lives, especially in the senior community. So each week, we bring you important conversations with experts and innovators. Exploring how AI is reshaping

Hanh: 00:00:56
the aging population in care. So, whether you're a professional in the senior care sector, caregiver, or just interested in the fusion of aging, health, and technology, well, this is your place for learning, sharing, and being a part of a caring revolution. So, join us on this journey as we navigate towards a better, connected, and empathetic world of senior care.

Hanh: 00:01:25
So let's get started. So today's topic is AI empathy, and our guest is Henry Hayes. He's the CEO and Co-founder of Disrupt Ready Affirm. At the forefront of empowering businesses with emerging technologies, disrupt Ready has made significant strides in ai. Particularly with closed source, large language models, reshaping

Hanh: 00:01:53
how businesses grow and adapt. So Henry's journey also includes his remarkable experience in the pharmaceutical industry, where he led a groundbreaking sales force. Deeply understanding the healthcare sector's nuances. His insights into healthcare have fueled his vision for AI's potential in this vital area.

Hanh: 00:02:17
Also, Henry is nurturing future talents in AI at the Honors College at LSU, guiding students in applying AI to real world challenges. From healthcare advancements, like early breast cancer detection to agriculture innovations. So join us today as we talk to Henry in a thought provoking discussion on AI's transformative

Hanh: 00:02:38
role in business and beyond. So Henry, welcome to the show. Hi, Ellen. Hey, how are you?

Henry: 00:02:51
I'm really well. I think my mom would be happy to hear your introduction again.

Hanh: 00:02:58
Well, hey, I appreciate your time and You know, sharing your expertise and sharing the journey that you've been on with AI and just, you know, encouraging people, people to learn and keep an open mind. So to get started, is there an aspect of your personal or professional life that's not widely known, but you'd like to share with the audience?

Henry: 00:03:22
Sure. So I would say I'm 52 years old and where we sit today in 2023, I would say I'm a. I'm an analog sales guy that is sprinting to, to kind of be relevant in the digital world. Um, that's kind of a weird statement, but what I mean to say, and what I mean to kind of have your audience understand is. I, by no means would say I am technically

Henry: 00:03:44
skilled in coding and some of those other functions of a lot of this very complex math that is artificial intelligence and machine learning, but I see the opportunity and I really do believe this is the greatest disruptive technology of our lifetimes. Um, I only, that thesis only gets cemented more each day and week that we do the work we're doing.

Henry: 00:04:12
And so, uh, what a time to be alive and what a ti, what a time to have the opportunity to really make some changes. So, uh, that, that's kind of the way I look at professionally and what we're about to talk about.

Hanh: 00:04:27
Awesome. Alright, so it's clear from your extensive background in both business and the healthcare sector and that you have a unique perspective on ai. So let's. Start at the beginning of your journey. So can you tell us about the moment or experience that you first, that first drew you into the world of AI

Hanh: 00:04:45
and what sparked your passion for it?

Henry: 00:04:50
Sure. And it was an artificial intelligence, Hanh. So, uh, you mentioned that I was in the pharmaceutical industry for about 20 years. Uh, which means I would travel a bunch, you know, I was in airports and I'd pick up Harvard Business Review or Wired or Fast Company, always try

Henry: 00:05:04
to kind of stay a paragraph updated in what's going on in technology. And we had an exit event in one of the companies I helped founded. In 2014, and it was right about that time that the Blockbuster video stores began closing in my town. And I was 41 years old at the time, and that was unusual to say the least, to see a giant like that, that had a

Henry: 00:05:26
place from my childhood to college life to early dating and as a young parent, Blockbuster videos, you know, everywhere. So to see them get taken out by something that we thought was cute. And then it wasn't so cheap. So my thought was, well, who's next? And I had some resources and time. So I really invested in learning from guys like Clayton Christensen,

Henry: 00:05:53
who, disruptive innovation. So at that time, I started my consulting company, Honda, really eight technologies that we call the essential and artificial intelligence was one of, so it got lumped into this talk track I had of saying, guys, this is coming. It's coming faster than you think you need to get your head around. And then November of last year happened.

Henry: 00:06:16
And as you and I will know. OpenAI launches Chatsheet PT3 and we've, we've got all the BraveMX pieces and almost 100 percent of our work has gone to gap analysis, strategic advice, and then build it, large language model. So it started as kind of a, were this emerging techs faster than you think? And now it really got. Skinny down to the world of AI,

Henry: 00:06:38
because a year ago, um, you know, they announced themselves and they took a lot of oxygen out of the group.

Hanh: 00:06:48
And then the recent dev event that recently, I think it was about a week ago, boy, talk about even further transformative development, you know, and I think you'll understand its impact when I believe one or two days after. Their API was down for, I don't know, four hours or so. So that's significant, the value that it, that it gives, but then we're also

Hanh: 00:07:13
depending on it significantly, right?

Henry: 00:07:15
Oh, for sure. And you're talking about OpenAI's development day at the, you know, last week. Again, we simply haven't seen, uh, breakthroughs and then the speed that the other breakthroughs that follow are coming. Thank you. At Disrupt Ready, we really stress today

Henry: 00:07:32
is the great day to get in the game. Even if that's understanding what AI is at a central level and, you know, learning how to prompt on something like Jax GPT or Claude or, or any of the LLMs, great start. Because each day, a week that goes by, we believe you lose a competitive advantage and we don't know what the future holds, which is another

Henry: 00:07:57
reason that today is a great day to continue to educate your mind. And we, they can't. That this is the great leveler. If you're the smaller fry or the under resourced company, or you don't have the number of people that your competitors do, this is the great equalizer. We don't have to know that to be true, but it's, it's he or she who puts the work in

Henry: 00:08:22
to understand, okay, well, where does it fit us and how do we start that journey? So, um, Again, with the brave X speed of the announcements, today is a great day to get in the game.

Hanh: 00:08:34
It is. It is. I think we all can just hit that reset button. It doesn't matter how much we think we know up until this point, we can hit reset. We're all, the plane has been leveled.

Henry: 00:08:46
It does. And I think this too, Hanh, I've done a lot of speaking to different industries and executives on this matter. And I'll say this, I think there's a subconscious pushback internally in the front of our brains that we give ourselves when we don't understand a change. I think it's fight or flight. So it's Hanh, run, you know,

Henry: 00:09:04
and this is the inner voice. You don't understand it. You're not a tech person. You look foolish. I think that's a much more powerful stimulus than we, than we understand. Because what happens is you quickly come up with a way to say, wait a minute, there are privacy concerns or there's other issues.

Henry: 00:09:25
I'm going to take a backseat. And it's a, I think it's a safe excuse. And we go to where safety is. How on that, if you run a small to medium sized business and you've done well. Let's say that profits are good and, um, your employees are, are doing well. It's even a tougher thing to overcome mentally because you're telling yourself, Oh, we got this.

Henry: 00:09:48
Yeah. Who needs this? Who needs more? Right. Just like Hanh, the board of directors of Hilton and Marriott took less than 30 minutes both to figure out that no one wanted to rent our unserved bedroom. And so Airbnb would never work, you know? I think they're doing okay.

Henry: 00:10:05
Yeah. So, I think this begins with looking in the mirror and saying, do you have the flexibility and ability to lead through this innovative change? Because we've simply never seen the sea. So, I think there's also a competitive advantage here, or a competitive nature. I. e., if you, if you say to yourself

Henry: 00:10:21
to be competitive, maybe you're a former athlete, or Um, you know, you have that shriek in you, guess what, your competitors aren't in the game. So the game is afoot. So all of this is very real, but I think that a voice inside our own heads to say, um, I'm holding me back. No, what else? Don't do this.

Henry: 00:10:45
Do this. It's a very real thing.

Hanh: 00:10:47
It is. You know, and you know, it's easy. Like you said, when you come up with all the reasons why things don't work, but then what? Guess what? You don't have to do it. You're safer that way. And you're less at risk of failing because here's the thing for AI to

Hanh: 00:11:03
work, my opinion, first and foremost, you need to have an open life learning attitude because not likely it might work right away for you as you are, you know, learning your prompts, learning different, uh, GPT personalization and so forth, right? There's so, so many, but my point is. It may not work right away. You have to navigate, you have

Hanh: 00:11:27
to go through a learning curve. You're so right. It's humbling to go through a learning curve when you've been doing pretty well. Who needs it? You see?

Henry: 00:11:37
That's right.

Hanh: 00:11:37
So lifelong learning attitude in, I just think it's so crucial in this advancements of technology.

Henry: 00:11:44
Yeah. So two things you bring up there. I think it's interesting as adults. We're taught, hey, high school, college, if you do a little post grad work, that's great. And then go work and come to my retirement s'more. Like that's what we're led to, right? Well, that's not going to work anymore.

Henry: 00:12:04
And the second thing that swirled to my mind, you bring up is there was a point when this right here was the ultimate disrupt, a pen that you did not have to dip into a jar of ink with a feather on it. Obviously, that's patently absurd now, but there was a day when that task was removed. So Benjamin Franklin, as he's keeping

Henry: 00:12:24
his pen back into his ink reserve, what a, what a disrupt, right? Whether it's the accounting world with the calculating or think about what the computer has spawned. All those things we look back and go, of course, we use those. Um, there's a reason that folks don't send snail mail as opposed to email because it's a lot easier and it's ubiquitous.

Henry: 00:12:47
Well, you and I are telling folks, this is that times a hundred. Um, so.

Hanh: 00:12:54
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you've highlighted AI's impact in real estate at the NAI Global Conference 2003, this year's conference. So can you name other sectors where AI is making significant difference?

Henry: 00:13:11
Yeah, the better question would be, can I name a sector where it isn't making? Yeah. Um, so let's level up your home because I think where I get lost is we obviously I'm passionate about this. We could talk about this for days, but a lot of folks are at like one, it turns up, you know, they could spell lines and she won't tell.

Henry: 00:13:29
So let's speak to them for a moment. If you take your 168 hours a week, we all have the same number of hours in them. Whether it's Hanh Brown, Henry Mays, or Elon Musk. So how we spend them is important. If you break that 168 into tasks that help you accomplish a goal at your job, and then you start to say, which of these tasks are a bit laborious or could be set

Henry: 00:13:56
up, that's a great way to begin to think how automation and artificial intelligence might be able to step in and help you. And I mentioned a moment ago, nobody writes a letter Licks the envelope, puts a stamp on it, walks to the mailbox and comes back to get an answer. You send an email in five seconds and you probably will get a reply shortly. That's an example of a task

Henry: 00:14:17
that once took a long time and was truncated with technology. So I think the way we look at your question is to say, all right, industry, let's say your industry that you chase, the longterm peer industry, senior living, where are there examples of tasks that are, that are time intensive that can be maybe shrunk by automation or artificial intelligence.

Henry: 00:14:41
And when you do it that way, you work finish line first, the business owner, Hey, what would great look like? If you're a salesperson, what if I could pull out a lot of the research you have to do or whole reach outs? A lot of, a lot of salespeople light up and say, that would be wonderful. And we say, well, that's possible right now.

Henry: 00:15:00
And so the answer to your question is, uh, we need a lot more time to walk through that, but the better question is which industries aren't being impacted because everyone has solvability of the task being shrunk down such that they can get in what we call their hot zone, whether it's, Hey, I really. And in my flow, I'm in front of people. Great, let's get you in

Henry: 00:15:22
front of people a lot more. And I think when you start to think about it that way, you think of this as the greatestness. Hopefully it's that share that sits next to all of us where you'll never ever give it away because it does so much for you. Um, you'll say back to the day when you didn't have it and you'll rue that. So that's the way you

Henry: 00:15:42
look at that question.

Hanh: 00:15:45
Very true. Very true. And you know, it doesn't matter what industry you're in. I want to just comment the fact that. It's about personalization and there's no better tool than AI to offer personalization. Whether let's say sales and marketing, right?

Hanh: 00:16:00
Personalized to the individual's unique interests, likes, and needs. Very readily available nowadays. And then customer service, golly, right? Every business will have a set of FAQs for instance. So you can have your prospective clients or current clients. Speak to those FAQs, whether it's externally on your website or internally,

Hanh: 00:16:26
if they're already a customer. So those are just very few. And then not to mention, once your time is freed up, you can get into the heart of the business, truly what you enjoy and not the mundane administrative type of work. I mean, even for this preparation, I try to prepare, but there are certain things that I feel like. I'm going to be doing a lot of

Hanh: 00:16:49
research on my guests, which I do, you know, I research their work and in previous speaking events they were in. So, so again, I'm a believer of streamlining work processes so that I can look forward to having, enjoying this conversation.

Henry: 00:17:12
Yeah. I mean, look, if we look back to the, uh, a lot of historical precedents, cause it helps people get their heads around it. In no world would you ever take a tractor away from a farmer because the mule or the horse that he used to have to use was literally back breaking work that took X number of more human beings and slowed it down.

Henry: 00:17:35
And so now Jadir has a. Autonomous tractor that the farmer drives from his lazy boy in his home if he chooses to. And so if you think of it that way, again, it's, it's just, we're reading the things as humans that we really don't want to do. Um, but this is, I think this technology is so much more powerful than a tractor or a pen or a typewriter or the computer.

Henry: 00:18:05
Um, so yeah, it's, but, but people have to get around the corner to say, Hey, this is your friend. This is not your friend. Exactly. We're going to come to that realization. You will be at the front of the wall.

Hanh: 00:18:19
Yeah. No, I, you, you hit it right on the dad. It's your companion. It's your co pilot, right? It's your teammates, so to speak. It's not just a technology in my opinion. I mean, it's a little bit odd, but I feel in some ways it's becoming my digital twin. It knows my, it knows my problems.

Hanh: 00:18:38
It's becoming very personalized. And that's okay. It saved me a lot of time. So I think that once you wrap your, your thinking that I'm going to create something that's going to add value to my day to day and also my workflow for, for my, you know, professional and your clients. So you know, proceed with caution, but at

Hanh: 00:18:59
the same time embrace, seize the moment. And innovate, right? There's no time to sit back.

Henry: 00:19:09
Yeah. Because Hanh, you mentioned, so it's so interesting. You just said that I use this a lot. The movie Iron Man with, um, Robert Downey Jr. They had Jarvis in that movie, which was futuristic. Jarvis is his avatar. His, his.

Henry: 00:19:23
And a personal assistant now up again, its Hollywood. So we know about Hollywood, but he trusted Jarvis because it's him. Jarvis is smarter than he is, and he knows that. Jarvis also does things like order the 2 percent milk and. Um, does all the mundane things that Tony Stark used to have to do.

Henry: 00:19:45
So it's funny that you said that, and I can hear it at your voice to say you're beginning to really trust. And then a lot of your guests that are watching this tonight might say, okay, what's an example? Well, if you have Gmail and you know it, so you go to write an email, that predictive text, that's, that's the very beginnings of a relationship with Hanh.

Henry: 00:20:04
So learn her voice, how she types, how she thinks. And most of the time when I probably say it's probably correct and it saves you time. So the trust level is building. So he or she, uh, executives of business that can step into this idea. It's a lot of blue ocean out there because it just makes

Henry: 00:20:24
life a lot better for everyone.

Hanh: 00:20:27
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's relationship building. And I always say, you know, start small, keep an open mind. When I say start small, what I'm saying is learn the language, learn the prom. And by the way, the best language to learn right now is English, right? It's not Python. It's English.

Hanh: 00:20:47
You know how I speak English? You're you're, you got the edge and then learn how to prompt and that takes time. And the end of the day, you want the AI to be you. I know it sounds a little, you know, but that's really, it's your companion that represents your values, your, your, your brand, your language, and how you would Communicate to others.

Hanh: 00:21:13
And I understand the fears are legitimate and I always keep it simple. You know, if your directives or proms leads to an output and you have to think in terms of, does the output impose on, let's say your children or your family? If, if the answer is like, if, if it would create harm, then, then, you know, you just don't do it, but if it's as value to your loved ones, I say, go for it.

Hanh: 00:21:38
Right? It sounds a little too simple, oversimplified, but that's how I measure privacy and ethics. How does that influence your loved ones?

Henry: 00:21:49
Yeah, I think it's an interesting way to look at it. Look, there are a lot of issues we need to figure out together as a society. On what are the rules? Where are the barriers? What are the guardrails? Um, and so I'm not naive to that. I will say again, I think what I see happening is a lot of people put

Henry: 00:22:09
that up as a reason to not engage. I think it's exactly the opposite. I think we need to be educated and informed so that you have a seat at that table to help make those decisions. Um, it's a little bit akin to a person that complains about I pollute it with system inevitable votes. Yeah. You walk, you don't, you don't really

Henry: 00:22:27
have a voice there, so lots of work out, but be a part of that solution. And, um, I think the way to do that is, is to get as much education as you can.

Hanh: 00:22:38
Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, like you say, be a part of shaping it as opposed to one day saying, well, it just happened to me or better yet, you know, my business is going down because I didn't keep up. So, all right. So we're going to shift gear a little bit. Let's talk about education and, uh,

Hanh: 00:22:53
specifically your teaching role at LSU. So can you elaborate, tell us what you're doing there?

Henry: 00:23:02
Yeah. So it's a pretty good story. So, um, we do a lot of education on what AI is for CEOs and kind of C level executives, people who aren't technically savvy, quote unquote, um, but need to know what this is. And so I'd met the provost and all the, she, Dr. Roy Haggerty at one of these

Henry: 00:23:21
events in late June of this year. And he was very engaged and, um, had a lot of questions. He, he knew, he knew a lot about the technology. We asked him to meet with me after, and I, you know, took him on because that's where I went to school and live in the town that, you know, I always share with Baton Rouge.

Henry: 00:23:39
So I have a, an affinity for the university. And, um, from that time until really late July, him and I kind of developed and began rolling kind of a state of the art course that would teach artificial intelligence to a dozen and their top computer science kids on the campus, and then for their top business students. The twist was, and this is why I

Henry: 00:24:04
agreed to do it, was those kids were put into teams of four. And each team had a real world task, a real world challenge that they're trying to solve. So right away you've got private meets public, um, intersection of opportunity, which I love. And they're, so the class is designed to teach these students how to build

Henry: 00:24:27
a private large language model. Um, which is technical, uh, and then it's the business students are working with the sponsors at the four, um, the, the, the four project, you know, businesses to work on what are the challenges and when the outcomes and how do we, how do we intersect with you to get this data and all those different things. So we're, we're literally, I have class

Henry: 00:24:46
site, uh, as we speak and, uh, it's cool. Great. It looks like all four of these projects will, will be deliberate on time, and this is not a pat on the head. textbook undergraduate project. These are projects that will move markets. I'll give you an example of one of them. So here, here in the South, agriculture is a big part of our economy and

Henry: 00:25:11
farmers and wheats are a problem. And so different weeds call for different pesticides at different doses, and these things change as soil yield changes. So there's literally a large book on that says which, which pesticides to use at which dose way. The problem is, that needs to be on a device like this in the field and it needs to happen instantaneous.

Henry: 00:25:36
Well, that's what this group, one of the four groups is doing. And so, talk about task shrinkage. They'll go from today, a farmer placing a call or sending an email or a bit of a laborious task to get the question answered, two seconds on his or her phone, um, by, by virtue of a multimodal discipline. And so, that's an amazing.

Henry: 00:26:01
Um, insight and an amazing kind of improvement in that task management for a farmer and that'll be ready in probably three weeks. So, um, the real, this is a great example of the ripple of AI. Why? A, most students are getting introduced to those executives in the agricultural world very quickly.

Henry: 00:26:22
And I dare say they're probably going to want to follow up with them once the project's done. So we're creating opportunity for our students locally. B, it ends what I call rise to new job types. So a data cleanser, for example, there was a period where the students learned what that digitization of that book and the

Henry: 00:26:40
OCR and the NLP, it's a little technical, but how all that information was sent into the large language while we were building. That's a data cleanse, uh, responsibility that a lot of young people will have opportunities to separate it. Because. A lot of the data we have in corporate America today is unstructured and we call it dirt.

Henry: 00:27:03
Meaning, if you want to play in this deep space, you've got to get your data, right? Okay, well, that's, that's going to give rise to a bunch of new jobs where all they do is date. Uh, and then number three, I think for, for LSU itself, which is the state, the flagship of our state. So they have an opportunity to now take this learning to the businesses and

Henry: 00:27:24
the alumnus that run those businesses. So they could give rise to a new vertical revenue. So it's really fun to see the new ripples come out of this. And I can tell you in the spring semester, it's going to be four or five X. So we've already got plans to dramatically increase it, and that's going to be fun to be a part of too.

Hanh: 00:27:46
Wow, it's great. It's great what you're doing, giving back to the younger generation, and then building that gap to corporates, positioning them. You know, potential job opportunities and also like getting them on top of latest technology. So that's awesome. So now,

Henry: 00:28:03
Well, Hanh, I hate to cut you off, but listen, there's, you'll love this. So last Tuesday it was right after the Dem day and one of the team looked a little morose. So I said, guys, what's, what's going on? And he said, a lot of the work we just did. Yeah. And I said, okay, well, let's

Henry: 00:28:20
talk about that because what an awesome way to learn, right? So in other words, I would not have given back with what they learned up here to get to this point. And yes, there was a technological advancement that could speed it up, but that's the whole point. They got going on this in late August. So they now saw, wow, okay,

Henry: 00:28:40
this stuff is moving quickly. So it was a real world example of. Um, Hey, this is the way the market's going. So choose to be a permit or, or feel sorry for yourself. But the choice is pretty clear. So I'm sorry to cut you off. That happened last week.

Hanh: 00:29:00
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's true with the dev event day. I mean, that's you, you either embrace a lot of those innovations, but I'm sure there are many that are in sorrow, right? And, but regardless, I think a lot of the learnings like you described have positioned them to where they are,

Hanh: 00:29:19
that now it's going to be replaced by the GPT 4 Turbo, for instance. But still there's a lot of learnings in that process. So I guess I'm not saying it's, it's not a complete loss and there's more to come from the people that perhaps created those plugins and those. One off type of services. So I think regardless, there's a

Hanh: 00:29:42
lot of learnings along the way. So as you communicate with the students, how do you go about advocating for a balanced approach that ensures. Innovation without compromising human values?

Henry: 00:29:57
That's a good question. You know, I think, you know, young people today, I think, want opportunity. And they're different, their generation, Harvard Business Review data says that that generation would rather have a root canal than step into a bank. Um, a lot of people think that's funny. I'm more interested in why, what's the thinking that makes

Henry: 00:30:17
them pull that lever, right? And so I think when I try to stress to them is your youth should be a plus, meaning all these businesses that we work with on a day to day basis, it disrupt, right? They're trying to be dragged into innovating themselves, which can be difficult, but they're going to need some help.

Henry: 00:30:39
So they're going to look to the younger generation to give that help. So if you're young and you're not equipped with the latest and greatest head, as, as Desi Arnaz would say, you've got some splitting to do Lucy, uh, it's just, why would you give away that competitive advantage decision on, especially when the carousel is only getting fast. So I think the learning to them

Henry: 00:31:03
on is a combination of guys, here's the market opportunity. Um, and then here's what you need to do to be equipped to, to not only step into it, but potentially help lead the way, uh, in this, because you and I both well know on none of us that are in AI could tell you what six months from now looks like none of us and anyone that says they do are making it up and

Henry: 00:31:29
shouldn't be able to be, we can take the best guesses, but nobody has a full clear roadmap on where this is going. And so that back to our statement a minute ago. If that's the case, I want to sit at the table. I want to be able to help influence. I'm certainly watching, um, because I want to decide my future.

Henry: 00:31:49
I don't want it decided for me.

Hanh: 00:31:53
I really think the key skills to have nowadays. Is, uh, adaptability and lifelong learning again, you know, we can just hit that reset button because whatever we thought we knew in terms of technology and, and, and digital transformation, it's exponentially potential growth now. So, so let's do a little bit deeper dive on the ethical dilemmas.

Hanh: 00:32:19
So what have you seen or what do you think that's most pressing ethical dilemmas in AI today? Let us know in the comments below. Thanks for watching. Bye for now. And what do you think? How should we address it?

Henry: 00:32:28
Yeah, so, I have a lot of thoughts. One is, I think anytime you have a new technology like this, it's, I mean, to be frank, it's an easy target. For what you just said, right? Like, um, because I think a lot of people don't understand what this is. Now I'm not naive. So I do know that, um, are there bad actors who will use this

Henry: 00:32:53
technology for, for bad things? The answer is full. Yes. Eve took the first bite of the apple and it was all downhill for, you know, for mankind since then. Um, people are going to do bad things, but that's like saying, you know, the automobile will someone choose to drive an automobile into a crowd?

Henry: 00:33:08
Yes, we've seen that. Um, I think where the struggle lies is it's gotten here so quickly and it's so powerful that our brains go to default, well, you know, was Arnold Schwarzenegger right? Will the robots get to a point where they decide that humans are necessary? I think that's much more Hollywood than not, but I do think we need a

Henry: 00:33:34
place and a stage to ask that question without judgment, without fear. And as humans say, let's figure this out because we can really use this. We could step into this to really make this world a better place, not to sound cliche, or we can let it run by itself and. We kind of know how that's going to work out.

Henry: 00:33:57
So I think it's a blend of, you have to be educated to know what this is. And then I think hard questions have to be asked. I'll give you an example. This summer, there was a letter signed by tech executives that the U. S. should slow down for six months. I think that's Pat Muser.

Henry: 00:34:13
And I think, frankly, we saw a lot of motivation on those folks who are already in the market. I think that's a, I think that's a, I think that's largely a business advantage move. And so to think that the rest of the world, China, India, a lot of Europe, um, are, it's going to slow down because the United States is, is a Jew.

Henry: 00:34:34
And it's, it's patently absurd. So I think that again, in my perfect world, we build places where we can have these discussions and I think a consensus can be drawn from all viewpoints. From the most skeptical to the most positive, everyone in between, everyone who wants to have a voice. Um, what does that look like? It could come in a lot

Henry: 00:34:57
of shades and colors. I don't know. But, um, I do know that the default headline, which is clickbait, I don't think that's very instructive. Um, you know, I think of Khan Academy, for example, and Sal Khan who founded that really also disrupted our education. When they came out with Khan Rigo last month, Hanh, uh, you know, Sal

Henry: 00:35:18
Khan said in less than 10 years, every student on the face of the earth is going to have an assist on that Khan. And so that will be, I would think that's a 10 years. But then I thought, what if we allow kind of a, one of these ethical roadblocks to limit that, that, that improvement and that, that speed to market. Shame on us if we.

Henry: 00:35:39
Kind of don't give every student in the world that opportunity to use it as growth. I think that could happen. So, lots of, lots of questions to be answered. I think the right people need to be at the table. Um, in a methodical sense. And so, that, that is a concern.

Henry: 00:35:58
So, my concern is more the humans making these decisions than the technology itself.

Hanh: 00:36:05
Mm hmm. So true. And, and to add to that, I know that high school levels, you know, near me, my kids are older, 26, 23, 21, but I'm still close in contact with some of the, the staffing there. It's still frowned upon. It's considered to be cheating, even almost a year later.

Hanh: 00:36:24
It's unfortunate, you know, somehow we have to package an AI integration into school, whether it could be elementary, middle and high school, but it's very necessary. And that packaging consists of the superintendent, the staff, the students and the parents. So we have to innovate and keep pressing on and not see it as

Hanh: 00:36:48
cheating, frowned upon and so forth.

Henry: 00:36:51
So Hanh, I'll break it back to a historical precedent real quick on what you just said. Early 2000s, if you remember, Napster showed up, and all of a sudden, I remember you could rip music and you could do it for free. And what, what, what, what is your memory in honor of the way that the big bands at that time reacted?

Henry: 00:37:11
Do you remember?

Hanh: 00:37:12
Wait, I'm so sorry. You got to speak. You, ask me the question again.

Henry: 00:37:16
Yeah. So, so the, the, the kind of the X of the time thought that in the Napster technology. Yeah. Would put them by business. And so there was a very negative reaction. Yeah. To a Napster type of technology. Well, fast forward to today.

Henry: 00:37:30
Yeah. Um, touring, right? So the Taylor Swift, and that's, that's a different level, but the, the receipts from bands on tour have never been higher than they are today. Why do I bring this up? Because the, the, um, argument can be made that by sharing your music, in some cases, it resets.

Henry: 00:37:53
You as the band get multiple more opportunities to make revenue. And so just because it's not stamped out on a CD that I've got to go to Tower Records to buy, doesn't mean you still can't make revenue. In fact, that black t shirt that you tried 50 for, but now is much more. Of a revenue driver at your concert than it was when Napster came out.

Henry: 00:38:15
So in answer to your question about school districts struggling with how to use or aren't to use at all ai, I think we can look to where we've been in the past. To give us a run back on how to deal with this because again, the receipts of concerts have never been higher than they are today. So it was attitude, not subtract.

Hanh: 00:38:37
Thank you for, you know, reiterating that. Think about it nowadays. I don't know anybody that doesn't have Apple music or Google music. It's so affordable and it's available to the mass worldwide. So, you know,

Henry: 00:38:51
Well, Hanh, idea that you and I had to buy a whole CD in 1998 today, you want to buy one song, you can buy one song. It just, again, these are advancements. And look at the end of the day, the customer will decide about the customers, like what you just said. And so the market is shifted. And so you can either stick your head in the sand on what gets better or not, or.

Henry: 00:39:16
You can judge what's going on with no motion and figure out how it works for you and your business.

Hanh: 00:39:21
Mm hmm. Very true. So let's say, um, with a proliferation of AI tools and platforms, can you give some advice to businesses who are on the fence about incorporating AI into their operations? What's your take?

Henry: 00:39:37
Yeah. Okay. So if you're on the fence, I would say do, do a, do a shallow dive on. What it is, where it comes from, um, get educated on it. We have, we have a product at my company heart called Digital. It's setting up a Digital Assets Team. We call it a DAT, a D A T.

Henry: 00:39:59
And then we have a DAT University for short. Because we think we're building what we think college should have been. So, um, what's the reason for a Digital Assets Team? Well, a couple of things. One, I said a minute ago, look, these, these technological advancements are coming much faster.

Henry: 00:40:18
So the blockchain will be here before you know it, trust me. Um, things like drone delivery of your Amazon order, that's coming. Self driving cars, robot in long term care facilities, um, augmented virtual reality. We see this steer in Las Vegas. This stuff is coming and it's coming quick. So if that's the case, you

Henry: 00:40:36
have two choices as a business. Choice A is to do the work up front, construct your digital assets to a small group that has a tech focus, resource it, and they keep you two steps ahead. Okay? Choice two is you are beholden to an expensive consultant that you may or may not get the right one and it's going to cost you.

Henry: 00:41:01
I'll go with choice one. Now, if you're not, you can go with choice one. Everybody that we talk to at IAHON says they have a tough time hiring young people. And when they do IRM, they have a tough time keeping it. I think, we think it disrupts reading. If you spin up a digital assets team

Henry: 00:41:14
the right way, I would say to young Hunt Brown, Hunt, not only are we going to give you this job offer, I need you to voice in your brain on our digital assets team day one. Because I want to know what your generation thinks. You're on my next sleeve of customer, so why wouldn't I tap into your brain power? To help feed our ideas on how to reach

Henry: 00:41:34
the next generation of our customer. We think that's a very attractive way to get into the marketplace as a young person and when you keep a prouder though Well, we think that um a shot in the arms of the business like a digital assets team is really, uh, additive across many, many layers. And so, I think that's a great way. And by the way, Hunt, when we do that,

Henry: 00:41:59
um, we teach what's coming up with, with, it's called a house thesis. It's, it's a one page, and it's, this is artificial intelligence, here's where it came from, here's how it was built, here's what it is simplistically, here's our industries using it, and then here's what we're dealing with. Which may include... Then saying we're going to watch and

Henry: 00:42:19
we're going to wait and that's fine. I'd rather them say that to the market than say, we don't really have it. We're afraid of, or we haven't done the work, right? Because when a company gets in the habit of exercising that muscle on, when augmented reality comes, when robotics comes, when drones are here. They'll have that memory, muscle

Henry: 00:42:41
memory of, okay, we know how to adjust to new technology. We'll go get resources. We'll not be experts. Oh, we'll love a four paragraphs. I just think it's a, it's such a positive to your point, a mindset shift to communicate to their employees, to their vendors, to their customers, to their future customers.

Henry: 00:43:03
And that can be, Hey, we know what it is and we're going to wait. That's what we had. But the alternative to say. We don't really have any idea, and we're going to be more of the next blockbusters than, than Hex and Netflix. I don't think that's very attractive.

Hanh: 00:43:18
And you know what? I'm thinking in terms of consumers, they're going to expect that, okay? They're going to expect that readily customer service to help them answer questions, to dig in deeper and to provide them something that is prompt. Okay? So in other words, users come to your business, whether online, your

Hanh: 00:43:37
website, social media and so forth. They're not going to be surfing around taking too long to get their questions answered. They expect like I ask something, there should be, you should already have a library, large language model of your business, of your brand, of your FAQs, you know, and everything else you want to include in there.

Hanh: 00:43:54
But here's the thing. I come to your business, I ask a question, I want an answer. I'm not going to be surfing, you know, 10 different pages, read a whole bunch of words. We're very short, you know, but rightfully so, because that's the world that we're in. Let's say, as a business, you

Hanh: 00:44:08
don't want to adapt, but your customers will expect that. So, I would be, be very mindful. Now, what common pitfalls do you recommend businesses to avoid, you know, when they start incorporating AI to their operations?

Henry: 00:44:26
I think that what I've seen that's most injurious, Hanh, is thinking like they traditionally have. Mmm. Me neither. Decades upon decades, right, where their market has been somewhat complacent. Um, I go back to the example of the board of directors from Hilton and Marriott, thinking these aren't stupid people.

Henry: 00:44:46
These are people with decades of not only experience, but. Well paid, successful runs in these businesses, right? The trap is what got you is not going to keep you. And so you take your eye off what the customer wants. You know, Henry Ford said if he asked his customers what they wanted, they would say

Henry: 00:45:06
fast from horses and he knew different. So I think the biggest pitfall is to just stay the way that you've been thinking traditionally about your business. Because we're moving too quickly to have that work. And there's too many examples, including got hung with this technology. The barbarians at all of our gates, the people that are coming to disrupt

Henry: 00:45:30
our businesses, do not look like us. They don't have our experience. They purposely have not had a 20 year career in industry X. They're looking at it very, very different. What are the customer frustrations? How can I speed it up? And maybe how can I deliver it more efficiently and cheaper?

Henry: 00:45:49
Those are things that they're taking a direct look in at to say I can do those three things. I've got a really good chance of having a pretty prosperous business that customers will line up for. You know, take a look at what Amazon has done to put these on our doorstep. No wonder the retail outlets in America are closing their doors.

Henry: 00:46:10
Because Amazon figured out a better way. And so, I'd say the biggest thing is looking in the mirror and saying, What got me here is not going to keep me here. And I've got to push myself to be flexible enough to make that change. And that includes, by the way, all the changes they make are not literate. And that's okay. We say at Disrupt Ready, skin your knee.

Henry: 00:46:32
Put aloe and a band aid on it and move on. Do something different. But if you don't skin your knee, you're not going to have that alert. And it's not all, then shouldn't be, that's not the way it works. So again, today you got to get in the game, uh, but I think it's traditional thinking that is the most, uh, it's the biggest pitfall.

Hanh: 00:46:51
Very true. That goes back to adaptability and lifelong learning, right? Cause We're all going to go through a learning curve, doesn't matter where we are, what phase we are in our business and types of business and what we think we know of technology, we're all going through a learning curve. So all right, now back about chatbots

Hanh: 00:47:09
because the role of AI in customer service, particularly in chatbots is gaining a lot of traction. So how do you see that evolving? And what do you think businesses should know or should be aware of?

Henry: 00:47:26
It's a great question. So first I'm going to point the finger at the tech industry. We have got to do a much better job of informing the public that these ain't your grandfather's chatbots because I think what people think about a chatbot today, Hanh, it's, it's clunky. It doesn't serve them the way they want. And it's, it's a waste of time.

Henry: 00:47:45
And that is fair. I think the large majority today are still kind of in that camp. The chatbots that we built at Disrupt Ready are quite the opposite. They are trained on our, our customer's data set. Meaning it's two point a minute ago. It's question answer quickly, no human in between.

Henry: 00:48:05
I want it and I want it now. So he can deliver that where the customer says, wow, that was much better. Let me give you an example. Can you imagine having a banking product today on that did not have the ability? to have mobile. Of course not, because Hans is not going to leave her office, get in her car, drive to the bank, sign a check, put it in the

Henry: 00:48:25
vacuum, but it just takes too much time. Those days are gone. Right. When you know this is available. So you will never do that. So chatbots can be built and constructed on a private company's data set. And we've done this and you just save your customers so much more time, but the tech folks have to do a better job educating

Henry: 00:48:47
the public to saying, get us another shot. Try this because the chatbots have so far, most of them have been pretty clunky. Now, here's where the fun starts. Because it's a private or a closed source, large language model, Hanh. It could begin to learn the question, questions Hanh asks and be proactive and play offensive as opposed to defensive. Right.

Henry: 00:49:13
Right. That's when I think businesses will have a whole new way that they think about servicing their customer because the data will rule the day. The data will tell us, you know, and so. If the company's flex will up, but think about this differently. You can talk about things like customer churn, potential new customers in a

Henry: 00:49:31
totally different light by virtue of the industry, a chatbot is going to be able to create, and so things like even like mobile, um, we're pushing the bounds of what mobile is going to look like. There's been no disruptive add to these things in. 15 years. And so all this is changing.

Hanh: 00:49:52
I think in terms of chatbots, well, my personal take is, first of all, I don't like the word bot because it has a negative connotation to it. I use it in terms of a concierge because that's what it is. It's a concierge. It helps answer questions, guide you along the journey to see if it's a fit of what you're looking for to the business online.

Hanh: 00:50:11
Okay. So that's kind of the front end, but then the back end for your current customers or your employees. There's a plethora of things that you can help boost efficiency for it, whether it's a training, FAQs, or insurance, something that's pretty standard all the time. And you don't want to have a dedicated person to answer those questions.

Hanh: 00:50:35
Why not create a large language model for yourself? And when I say this, I, I'm not an advocate, I'm actually not in suggesting for people to subscribe to a third party generic chatbot. I'm saying create your own because here's the thing, you are unique in your brand, in your own FAQs and your clientele. So don't subscribe to a generic one, okay?

Hanh: 00:50:59
Create your own, customize it. And I agree with what you said earlier because it's very proactive. The user can ask one questions, but you can also train your assistant to suggest what the potential next three, four or five questions that it might ask. Right? So now you're opening up, wow, a list of questions that perhaps the user

Hanh: 00:51:24
didn't think of, but later it's like, wow, you're really educating me. You're proactive. You're, you're enhancing my knowledge. About your business, I think the key is you want your prospect to be empowered and you were key to their empowerment because if not, they'll go elsewhere to get their questions answered.

Henry: 00:51:45
You could not be more correct. And I think, you know how I think this too, I think a business today can try things on behalf of the customer in media. They're trying to make your experience better. Let's say it fails. I'm not a consumer of that business and they tell me, hey, look, this is what we're trying.

Henry: 00:52:04
Trying to make this better for you. Here's where it didn't work out. I would tip my hat to them and say, at least you try and I'll stick with you. As opposed to, you know, there's so many examples of. We know that, um, the way they're doing business today just, it frustrates us, and so we will leave. And so I think you could

Henry: 00:52:27
actually play offense with your customer, even when you fail. As long as you communicate that in the right way, saying, we're trying to bend over backwards on your behalf. There may be some bumps and bruises, but stick with us. As opposed to saying, this is the way you did it in 1995. This is the one that I continue to do it.

Henry: 00:52:46
I don't think that's a winning strategy.

Hanh: 00:52:47
Yeah. Well, that's great. You know what? With this type of conversations, we could go on for hours, but we're at the tail end. So is there anything else that you would like to add before I close up?

Henry: 00:52:58
I would just say the fear is much less than the opportunity here. And this is not, guys, this is not the headlight of a month. This is not. Um, a pass and fancy of the flavor of the month. This is your chance to, to really change things, um, with what we've seen coming and what we're kind of a part of.

Henry: 00:53:22
So again, yet in the game today, um, just a little bit of learning. And I think the snowball begins to roll down the hill and you will become very, very powerful.

Hanh: 00:53:31
Well, thank you so much for the listeners or the ones watching and. Thanks to you, Henry. So we, we covered how AI is revolutionizing industries, business, healthcare, and many more. And in Henry's journey, spanning from his career and then teaching at LSU, it really highlighted the AI's huge impact. And we hope that you found our exchange

Hanh: 00:53:55
thoughts and very evoking, um, and that perhaps you talk among yourself. And if you're thinking AI in your business, And concerning about his ethical side, you know, reach out where we would love to have an exchange of thoughts and, uh, we can learn from one another. Okay. So, and, and it's exciting to know that we can be a part of each other's

Hanh: 00:54:19
shaping the future where innovation and humanity go hand in hand. So a big thanks to Henry for his valuable insights and thank you for our listeners and viewers to keep exploring AIs in your potential. The potential in your field. And join us next time on Boomer Living Broadcast on how tech and aging intersect. So until then, stay

Hanh: 00:54:45
innovative and connected. And as a reminder, our next live topic will be "Data Alchemist, Transforming Numbers into Insights." So stay tuned and thank you for being here. Take care.

Henry: 00:55:00
Take care.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Hello, welcome to Boomer Living Broadcast. I'm your host,  Brown, also the founder of AI50. So as we approach the year's end, we're excited to bring you a lineup of remarkable thought leaders. Concluding the year on a high note. So after a reflective summer and fall where we took some time to regroup and

Hanh: 00:00:23
refocus, our schedule has been packed with a series of engaging speaking events. So the highlight for me was the NIC, the National Investment Center on Housing and Care. Where I had the opportunity to discuss the integration of AI in senior living. So behind the scenes, we've been actively strategizing a unified AI ecosystem for senior care.

Hanh: 00:00:47
This is through AI50. In collaboration with Microsoft startups, democratizing AI and providing enterprise AI capabilities without the heavy price tag to all the sectors involved with the aging population. So imagine a unified AI ecosystem. It's not just about cutting edge technology. It's about creating a network.

Hanh: 00:01:14
That amplifies the ability of businesses to deliver exceptional care to seniors. Well, with AI, we can anticipate health issues before they become emergencies. Personalized care to each individual's needs and streamline operations. So caregivers can focus on what they do best, caring for our seniors. So this isn't just about the present. It's a long term vision.

Hanh: 00:01:43
And by harnessing the power of AI, businesses in the aging sector can evolve, becoming more proactive, predictive, and personal in their services. So stay tuned as we explore these themes and much more with our guests. So today, we have the pleasure of introducing Nirmal Rakahauty, whose life story is as captivating as his work. Nirmal grew up in Naples and has

Hanh: 00:02:10
become a star in data science. Imagine climbing a mountain. Well, that's what Nirmal did. But in his career, starting out during a tough economic time, he didn't give up. Instead, he joined the U. S. Army and that experience shaped Uh, shaped him into who he is today, a top expert at Microsoft, making sense of

Hanh: 00:02:37
complex data to keep us safe online. But there's more, Nirmal also teaches others, helping students and professionals get better at understanding data. So he's a person that a go to for advice or when you need a helping hand in the tech world. So sit tight as we chat with Nirmal, a true guide and a guardian in the journey of data science.

Hanh: 00:03:07
So Nirmal, welcome to the show.

Nirmal: 00:03:11
Thank you so much. Uh, that was a great introduction. Thanks for covering everything. Not only my military career, but also Uh, the mentoring work that I have been doing, uh, I usually like to highlight that as well. Uh, but you covered everything. So thanks for the introduction. Absolutely.

Nirmal: 00:03:27
I'm happy to be here.

Hanh: 00:03:28
Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. So yeah, share with us. I know I captured just a little bit, but share with us something personal about yourself. that maybe many people might not know?

Nirmal: 00:03:39
Yeah, uh, definitely. So, as I, as you mentioned, I, I grew up in a very small town. Uh, some of the, uh, I mean, uh, personal things maybe, you know, like I may have nausea everywhere. It could be, you know, like how the conditions are when, when you're growing up, uh, in a small country. Nepal is still a developing nation, uh,

Nirmal: 00:03:59
and, uh, One thing is there's a lot of talents coming up Uh, they are actually most of their goals is to come up here and do their higher study whether it be undergrad or grad Uh, yeah my Uh, thing is, uh, I never realized that I would probably be a data scientist or work in the data field, you know, uh, but if you look back, uh, a lot of the work that that we do in our daily life somewhere

Nirmal: 00:04:26
kind of resonates, uh, with with data science, you know, like a, uh, you know, like, uh, is it going to rain tomorrow? Uh, is it not going to rain? You know, like even the farmers are doing doing data science on their daily life, right? So, for me, I think going in a small town, uh, if I look back, my personal secrets are like I was actually playing

Nirmal: 00:04:47
with the data from the childhood, like when I was playing games, tried to do a better hands, you know, like, hey, uh, we, we play, uh, in back home, uh, during the festival time, quite a bit of card games are there, you know, so now I realize that, you know, like, why I was calculating those kind of stats, you know, like in, in my head, like, you know, like chances calculating my odds, you know.

Nirmal: 00:05:09
Uh, so I think data science was there since, since, since, uh, childhood, I think, and it's probably true for many people. They don't realize, right, but it surrounded us.

Hanh: 00:05:20
Absolutely. I, I see it as equivalent to electricity, you know, how it's becoming very integral to our daily routines. So, and then of course, when we talk about AI, it's hard not to mention the recent open AI updates. And there are many, so what are your thoughts on their new changes? For example, GPT 4, Turbo, the Assistant

Hanh: 00:05:42
API, and now a simpler interface without a model picker and so forth. What's your take?

Nirmal: 00:05:53
Yeah, yeah, that's a good, good segue here. Uh, so the, the, the data science has been seeing tremendous wave. of improvements, you know, I still remember when computer vision was first came in, it took the same kind of, uh, you know, rise in interest from people, uh, right now, I think even a couple of the recent

Nirmal: 00:06:13
conferences that I went, uh, I would say every talk was based around that. Like LLM and the, uh, large language models, you know, and, uh, GPT models that like you mentioned, uh, I'm thinking that, uh, my, my take, you know, in, in, in maybe a few words would be because we are heading in a direction where everything is mostly natural language processing. Uh, we, if we look into, uh, many systems

Nirmal: 00:06:35
surrounding us, like smart home systems. You know, voice assistance, everything, uh, we building some, some tools in a way that helps the human life, uh, or make it easier, uh, tracking all the transcripts and converting the text into some sort of understandable insights or metrics, you know, so I'm thinking that's where GPT is, is going to sign, uh, it's gonna, uh, bring a lot of value.

Nirmal: 00:07:07
Uh, in one of the talk, uh, I hear someone said the next big programming language tool is going to be human language, which is obviously your natural language. So, you know,

Hanh: 00:07:19
it's all about prompting.

Nirmal: 00:07:21
It's all about prompting.

Hanh: 00:07:23
It's not Python.

Nirmal: 00:07:25
No, yeah. Python. It will create for you.

Hanh: 00:07:28
Right.

Nirmal: 00:07:28
SQL. It will create for you. Any language is going to be secondary.

Hanh: 00:07:33
Yeah, but the commanding language is English, you know?

Nirmal: 00:07:36
Yes. That's, that's amazing. Right?

Hanh: 00:07:40
Yeah.

Nirmal: 00:07:40
So I think at the end of the day, like, you know, like no one has to be high tech or the, the expert in the coding to get something done. Right. And that's, that's the power that, that this large language models are bringing, you know.

Hanh: 00:07:58
I agree. Yeah. You got to get good at prompting, be directive and very clear on your, I guess I'll call it commands. So in terms of, in terms of the, the recent open AI's update, you know, I see that customer service using GPT force turbo provide you smarter features now, and you can save costs

Hanh: 00:08:18
with more affordable AI services. And then of course, you know, customers, you can give them. A simpler help system to check GPT's interface. Those are a few things. And then you can also ask complex customer questions, which, um, it's more effectively with the GPT 4 Turbo's expanded memory.

Hanh: 00:08:43
Right? Right. And now we've got this copyright shield. So that's huge, because many business that may be shy in getting on to the AI. I think hopefully this will assure them, right, with the copyright shield and so there, there are many, but that's great. So I was tuning in and still having to listen to it again just

Hanh: 00:09:06
to make sure I heard it right.

Nirmal: 00:09:09
Yeah. No, no. I think you, you, you, you said it properly there, uh, because Uh, I think once we get into like right now, it's still in the phase where it's still training up, right? Like, because a lot of startups is founding a lot of open source market is getting heat, you know, so, uh, as

Nirmal: 00:09:25
you mentioned in the beginning, it's like electricity or sometimes I even compared with the telecom industries when we had only one cell phone provider, uh, the competition is low. And then, uh, you know, there's a huge value because people are connected through, through the cell phones or any other communication, right? But.

Nirmal: 00:09:46
Once there's going to be many players in the market, you know, uh, the competition will be a little higher and for the customer side, the competition is better because we're going to go, like you mentioned, the GPT is coming up with a better rate because they now have to, uh, understand that there's open source market players as well. So, uh, definitely at the end of the

Nirmal: 00:10:03
day, uh, there's more, uh, companies doing it, more players in the market. Uh, for customers, I think it's better. Right. So, and we, we always have to embrace the open source market. Right. So...

Hanh: 00:10:20
So, with your background as distinct as yours, particularly from the military. So I'm curious about its influence on you. So how did serving in the U S army shape your approach to data science?

Nirmal: 00:10:34
Yeah, that's a good question. Uh, so in military, I think as is, I look back my career now, you know, like at that point I may, I made a choice to go to military because that was one of the options that I have in my plate. Uh, but now I'm looking back. That was probably one of the best decisions I made in my career, uh, that not only saved my career, like

Nirmal: 00:10:53
how you can come professionally. Right. So. A lot of things that we do with, with attention to detail, uh, you know, the, uh, leadership skills, uh, the teamwork, you know, and this may look like the soft skills, but in the tech world. Most of these soft skills, you know, uh, resonate very well

Nirmal: 00:11:16
on your daily work, right? Because you have to take a leadership or ownership of a project, for example. And then how do I fit in and then plug in with the other leads, other project managers, product leaders, to understand, you know, like in military, we are always taught in a way that, hey, you follow the instructions, but at the same time, Try to have your own common sense to

Nirmal: 00:11:39
figure out what is right versus wrong. So a lot of things, these things goes a long way. Uh, but if I have to tie it back to the data science, I think, uh, we will usually, uh, come back to accuracy, precisions, things like that, the things we do in military, you know, uh, the precision matters or, or we have to do. to achieve higher accuracy for

Nirmal: 00:12:00
anything that we do, right? Uh, especially, uh, on any of the missions we are, uh, that's a few factors being tracked. The other things that is being tracked well is the deadlines, right? So they, like, we, there's no, uh, turnaround, you know, on some of the projects or the missions we do, right? So, and that kind of saves me, uh, even

Nirmal: 00:12:18
when I talk to the other prior service military members in, uh, in, in Microsoft. They also kind of bring up that kind of, uh, things that, hey, not only in data science, but any other way. Right. So they, they want to do, uh, track all the attributes that matter to make a project success from the start to the finish.

Nirmal: 00:12:40
Right. So I think project management life cycle is one of them. And then the, uh, doing the things with a high level of accuracy, the most we can offer, uh, is also important in data science. Right. So. Uh, and, and that is what I think two

Nirmal: 00:12:53
major things that has shaped my career from military to data science, including the other soft skills I mentioned.

Hanh: 00:13:02
Mm hmm. Very true. Discipline, structure, accuracy, coordination, and I think mostly respect and order. Right. That defines life, but it sets you in such a great launch in life once you have all that instill from the military. So that's awesome.

Hanh: 00:13:25
All right. So moving on from such a structured environment into a tech industry must have come with some hurdles. So transitioning between fields, you know, is often a complex process. So can you talk about the challenges that you might face while moving from the military to data science role? And what did you do to overcome them?

Nirmal: 00:13:48
Yeah, definitely. The first challenge, I think, when I was coming out, I was thinking, am I ready for the outside market, you know? Did I do enough investigation that, shall I continue my military career, or am I ready for the market job, you know? So that was already the first challenge I started with, uh, I think when you are in the institute, you are kind of

Nirmal: 00:14:11
like used to the culture, you're kind of used to, uh, your daily routine, right? Uh, and you, as much as we do understand how the market is around, uh, outside market is, Especially from the tech world, we don't get much impression or depending on your own interest level, right? So I was interested to transition my career to the tech. That was my goal in my mind from the

Nirmal: 00:14:35
beginning So I used to always kind of like look around for what's happening But I think the first challenge I had was Even I had a, um, you know, higher degree on the, the computer science field. Uh, the more time you are kind of staying away from that field, right? Uh, because in military, we have to do a lot of other things depending on your necessary, you

Nirmal: 00:14:58
know, uh, criteria or whatever the military has required you to do. Uh, I was very close. I was at least lucky to work on some of the projects that deal with data, but it's not nothing close to what you expect in the market, like how the data scientists or the other folks in the data world do. Right.

Nirmal: 00:15:20
So for me, the skill bridging was. was something challenging. One thing is just identify where I'm at currently and what are the things that I need to fill. And as you know, this, this data science is super moving fast field, right? So it's always a moving target. So even the continuous learning plan I have, uh, you know, because it

Nirmal: 00:15:42
may, there's always a gap, right? So that was my first and main challenge. Uh, the way I did, I did overcome was, uh, I was more proactive to look around what is what kind of tools or requirements that each job category needs, you know, and I already have a mindset that I will start my career. I did analyst. I do.

Nirmal: 00:16:03
I'm not going to go to data science directly. Uh, that is going to be a little bit steeper hill to to climb. I would rather take it slow one step at a time. So I prepared. Everything that I could do for data analyst role and then that's what the role I got picked up and I

Nirmal: 00:16:16
transitioned into and I think that was the best decision I made because from the data analyst, then I was in the industry working in the data field. At least this gap is now getting closer and my goal is just to close the next gap to data science, right? So.

Hanh: 00:16:34
Great. Great. So at the heart of security is the ability to detect when things don't quite fit the pattern. So what are the key challenges in building anomaly detection models at Microsoft security? And how do you tackle them?

Nirmal: 00:16:50
Yeah, that's, that's a good question. Uh, I think. Anomaly detection has always been, uh, one of the most popular problem or even challenging problem, I would say. Uh, you know, when you work in security, uh, it becomes a little bit more challenging, uh, for a few reasons. One is the data is vast, you know,

Nirmal: 00:17:09
like we mostly in every, every industry today we deal with big data, but in security, we, the big data becomes much bigger, in a way. Uh, so a lot of devices, uh, sending the log systems, uh, you know, uh, creating data in every fraction of seconds. Now what is, uh, genuine behavior, uh, versus anomaly behavior, right? So sometimes, uh, it's,

Nirmal: 00:17:36
it's not easy to figure out. Uh, however, uh, because of this, uh, new advancement, right, we, we are able to do, uh, some of the good work. Uh, I think one way I usually do when I first Uh, was working on anomaly detection. One of the parts that I was working on is like, Hey, uh, as much as, uh, the, the, the statistical approach matters,

Nirmal: 00:18:00
like I could probably do just, uh, use the three sigma rule or any other like standard deviation rule to clear out some of the first low hanging fruits. Uh, then for us, the precision matters. So when we go. Figure out like, hey, some anomalies are they, uh, two things I have found very useful is the feedback, you know, mechanism.

Nirmal: 00:18:24
Uh, your model is as only good as you continuously retrain it or bring the feedback back. So there's no such model that can start very well in the beginning. So as much feedback we can get from the, the human, right? Like once we, once we get a better data, I think the model will start perform good. That's one thing we did.

Nirmal: 00:18:47
The other thing in anomaly is. Behavior matters more than anything because identity could be compromised. I always give this example that, uh, if I lose my house key, you know, someone else can use that key to come in. Uh, the lock is doing its own thing, right? Uh, the lock wasn't broken. Uh, they can get in.

Nirmal: 00:19:08
But the, once they get in, their behavior, the way they do, you know, uh, move around in the house or like if they are looking up for some, some high value assets, I mean, they will probably deviate from my, my normal behavior I have been doing on a daily basis. So capturing the baseline matters when it comes to anomalies. So, so the baseline is the historical

Nirmal: 00:19:27
behavior in this example, what I usually do in my house, right? So, Uh, so I think those are the two things that has helped us, like, hey, one is like feedbacks is important. You have to keep retraining and fine tuning your model. Uh, it's not going to start off with, uh, well, the other thing is, uh, create a good strong baseline based

Nirmal: 00:19:50
on the behavior and pattern, right? So, uh, we call it the user entity behavior. Uh, it could be applied for the device entity behavior. It could be applied for many things, right? So. Uh, yeah, those are the things.

Hanh: 00:20:07
Okay. Great. Great. Now, there's a lot of noise about what data scientists do. And I think I, I could be wrong, but I think of one of your LinkedIn posts, you mentioned that some popular beliefs about data science role are false. So explain to us, what would you

Hanh: 00:20:20
say is the most misunderstood aspect of a data scientist's job?

Nirmal: 00:20:28
Yeah, this is a, this is a good question. Uh, I, I get this a lot, uh, that hey, data scientists, I get a data science role and my building model. That, that's my daily job. Uh, you know, I, I wish that's the case. That's just a part of the, part of the job, but that's not everything. Uh, people think that, hey, data cleaning

Nirmal: 00:20:46
or data engineering is not my role. So that is the biggest myth, uh, or the lie I have heard. Uh, and I, I'm helping the people to understand this definitions, uh, in such a way that I'm not trying to clarify what data science definition should be, but I'm helping in their career that, Hey, if you have a misconception about data science. Landing into the job and then, you

Nirmal: 00:21:11
know, not meeting your expectation is, it wasn't because of the data scientist title, it was because of you started with the false expectations, right? So that's some, some things that I wanted to clear out. So there's going to be a lot of data cleaning job. You, you're going to be, uh, if you are in a startup environment, they

Nirmal: 00:21:32
may not have enough budget to hire specific titles for data engineering. Uh, you know, so you may be wearing multiple hats to do from your own data. Uh, this is where I tell data scientists that, hey, SQL is not only for data analysts, you know, that is another biggest misconception in the market that, hey, uh, as long as I know Python, as long as I know,

Nirmal: 00:21:52
uh, you know, the machine learning frameworks, I should be good to go. Why should I learn SQL, right? So, but, uh, I think in my own experience, uh, First we need to prove any project to be worth of putting in production. Is it generating any value? So everything kind of starts with the proof of concept then MVP During the proof of concept stage you are on your

Nirmal: 00:22:13
own, you know, so there's the company. It's not gonna assign Additional resources or addition engineers to help you out to bring the data and do everything So at that stage, I think all the skills will, will help you out, you know, because you need to prove the value of the project before it can move into the production stage and they can assign resources afterwards.

Nirmal: 00:22:37
Right? So, but initially it's it's, it's, it's on your own. Uh, the other one is like, uh, some people are thinking that PSDs, uh, is, is the mandatory or the advanced degree on the data science is mandatory. Yeah. Some of, some of the folks I talk to is like, Hey, is it even a right creative for

Nirmal: 00:22:58
me and why it is so competitive, you know? So I think now I tell them that, Hey. Those are not mandatory. You know, I have seen, I've talked to folks like coming up from various backgrounds, right? One of the beauty of data science is it welcomes many different backgrounds. Every industry kind of needs data science people.

Nirmal: 00:23:18
And those are some of the misconceptions that are out there. Uh, and then, uh, uh, but yeah, it's not because of how it is, uh, promised by the title, but it's how interpreted by the people. And that becomes, yeah, you know. So, yeah, pretty big that, yeah.

Hanh: 00:23:36
Yeah, I, I agree. I think roles are evolving so fast, right? What I thought of a role, I see a year ago is it's been changing and it will continue to change. So I remember when my kids were younger, but they're 26, 23 and 21. Now just, just think of it as a lifelong learner, regardless of what profession that you're in.

Hanh: 00:24:00
And then be a problem solver. Think of, think of developing yourself and solve problems. I mean, I know it's a very high level, you know, full of philosophy, but it's true in all demographics, in all fields, solve problems, keep learning and develop yourself in whatever means that is data science, art, and so forth. So in developing models.

Hanh: 00:24:24
Aligning with business objectives is crucial and ensuring that models serve their intended business purpose requires a clear understanding. So how do you ensure that the data models you develop at Microsoft are grounded in business understanding?

Nirmal: 00:24:42
Yeah, this is a, this is another great question. Uh, uh, I love to touch upon this for various regions, uh, because, uh, when we learn data science, uh, when we practice data science, when we build our skills, uh, you know, using the publicly available data set Kaggle competitions or anything, when we are improving our building our skills.

Nirmal: 00:25:07
One of the things that we lack, even I look back on my own learning journey, I was not much aware at that point that business metrics, how does it fit in? Uh, we evaluate our model with model performance metrics, uh, you know, obviously getting the high level of accuracy, precision recall, if it is a classification or any other. evaluation metrics that is

Nirmal: 00:25:28
designed for a specific algorithm. We, we are only focused on that. We are completely blindsided about the business metrics, right? So, but when you get to the real world, uh, especially, uh, in Microsoft or any other roles I did, uh, the first thing that we do whenever we are defining the problem or the, the initial stage of problem definitions.

Nirmal: 00:25:52
I prefer to capture the business metrics, the success criteria or exit criteria, whatever we call it. Uh, the key performing metrics is not only based on your model performance, but it has to be based on some sort of impact you're going to create. Are you going to ultimately save some time for the analyst? If I'm building a model that, you

Nirmal: 00:26:12
know, classifies, uh, the, some sort of email classifications, for example. Uh, emails are the cases that has to belong to a specific team, for example, uh, then how much time I'm saving by this auto triage, uh, machine learning algorithm, right? So we can calculate that everything could be, uh, depending on, uh, different scenarios.

Nirmal: 00:26:38
Like some cases may take longer to process. Some cases may be, uh, you know, takes our time to process. Right now, I think when we build that model, there's, there's going to be model metrics for sure. We, and we will set up some thresholds, some acceptable range for that, but then the business metrics matters a lot.

Nirmal: 00:26:59
The, the reason is you may be able to build a high accurate, uh, model, but if it is not serving the business purpose, there's no point, right? So Uh, so a lot of people don't do it, uh, during the problem formulation stage, uh, you know, and then sometimes it's already late, like you don't want to go in the route of building the model, evaluating or retraining and reiterating that if it's

Nirmal: 00:27:22
not creating much business value, right? So, yeah, in my experience, business objectives is what, you know, I'm gonna. Mostly matter must for success of your, uh, ML models or any project. And, uh, you have to be very proactive to make sure that you bring, uh, and, and another mistake that I've seen. Uh, people make is, uh, once you capture the requirements, like every

Nirmal: 00:27:49
project, it starts with project requirements gathering, right? Once you have that done, uh, you, you, you started building a model and then, uh, you wait until I know, like, regardless of how much, uh, we call it, we are agile. We are using the CI CDs stuff. We are using the. Latest MLOps pipeline and stuff, but I have seen folks, uh, you know,

Nirmal: 00:28:09
just kind of getting caught up and building the model and improving the accuracy, uh, onto the last stage. They are not bringing the stakeholders in the table. Uh, yeah, I would rather bring them to the table, uh, have some, uh, frequent updates with them, uh, this is what is performing.

Hanh: 00:28:28
Right. Forward feedback, be integral.

Nirmal: 00:28:32
Exactly.

Hanh: 00:28:33
Yeah, that's key.

Nirmal: 00:28:33
Yes. Yeah. We, we, we, that, that's not, not the definitions of ASL. If, if I'm, I'm following the ASL technology to, to build a model, you know, like continuous, uh, retraining of it or bringing more data, data augmentation and all, but the feedback should be the, the outer layer.

Nirmal: 00:28:50
Uh, that actually, you know, like covers everything. Uh, and I think I will never, uh, feel shy to bring, or I will never feel, uh, you know, like, hey, this may hinder my, my progress in the project. Rather, I'll take it in a way that any feedbacks that I get, you know, so, and you have to be, you have to find the right balance too.

Nirmal: 00:29:12
And it's, that is where a lot of things come from data scientists and product managers working hand in hand. That. This, there could be, uh, if you are only, you know, surrounded by a lot of these feedbacks, that could have been sidelined for now. Uh, then it's already make hindering your progress of the project too, right?

Nirmal: 00:29:30
So you just have to find that perfect right balance, which is always hard. It's not easy to, to bring them to the table, but at the same time, how do you find the perfect balance of what feedbacks is, is helping you, uh, now versus later, right? So, uh.

Hanh: 00:29:45
No, that's key because I always think of it in terms we're not, well, I don't know we, but. we're not in the business of building a model, right? The whole purpose is to solve problems. And anything you do has to contribute towards solving that problem. And whoever, all the key stakeholders for that problem or solution needs to be

Hanh: 00:30:07
integral in that upfront conversation. And I'll, I'll share with you a recent example, you know, for instance, like yesterday, we had some automations running and we had problems that I thought was pretty good. But my gosh, it was producing garbage. We couldn't figure it out. I mean, you know, it's possible, but I didn't know until I checked

Hanh: 00:30:29
Twitter, the API was down. Who knew? Right. I mean, it was down for a couple hours. I'm sure you probably know that, but, and as a result, we were like kind of pick and poke like, what's, what's wrong with your automation? You know, we're kind of pointing fingers. No, what's wrong with your prompt?

Hanh: 00:30:47
But we never thought that. You know, right after what the, the, the dev day GPT 4, the API was actually down for many hours. So anyway, so, so I guess what I'm saying is that. It's a robust, synchronized system and it doesn't matter if you got a great prompt or you got a great automation or whatever, all the contingencies that you

Hanh: 00:31:10
have, they all have to work in harmony and it all has to produce value at the end.

Nirmal: 00:31:16
Right. Yeah. So. The model is just one piece. Yes. Right. I agree. Right. But some people say, well, my bottle is good.

Nirmal: 00:31:23
You know, like maybe it's your problem, you know, but we all have to be in harmony. Yeah. Exactly. This is where the initial curtain I was saying that you have to look at the big picture and business objectives, you know, how, how it is lining up with your other objectives, right?

Nirmal: 00:31:41
The model performing good and the best is, is not going to be, uh, not going to be only solution that we are after, right? Because, uh, because ultimately we have to think about all the factors. Yes.

Hanh: 00:31:56
Mm hmm. Very true. So human element in tech is something that's gaining more attention, especially emotional intelligence. So emotional intelligence is often highlighted as a key skill, you know, in the workplace. So, but what role does emotional intelligence really play in a

Hanh: 00:32:17
successful data science career? And how do you go about cultivating that?

Nirmal: 00:32:24
Yeah. So this is another key area that a lot of us, you know, especially in the tech world, uh, there's a stereotype of like, you have to be, uh, mostly on highly skilled on the tech skills, you know. Uh, I, I, I usually, in fact, I usually don't like to use the word soft for the soft skills either. Right?

Nirmal: 00:32:45
So, because everything is important, right? So how, how do we define it? But I think the industry definitions are there. Uh, however, the emotional intelligence, uh, has been In fact, played a key role, uh, in, in my own career because, uh, you know, like you could be going through, like, especially once you

Nirmal: 00:33:02
are on the career stage where you are going through a lot of things, right? Uh, yeah, sorry, did I?

Hanh: 00:33:10
Yeah.

Nirmal: 00:33:10
I was. Oh, okay. You hit me. Okay. Yeah. So. You're emotionally stressed, right? So that's one thing like I usually like people in in the career, the eight hours of work doesn't

Nirmal: 00:33:21
define their life cycle, right? They they are going through other things, right? Like, obviously, your your work life. You know, matters, right? So how much time you have for, for your kids, uh, things like that. And also the other factors like, Hey, uh, how do I balance the stress? You know, uh, how do I handle this?

Nirmal: 00:33:46
This, uh, one thing that, that military has taught me is also some sort of patience. You know, sometimes, uh, we are wrapped around by move fast, feel fast, uh, kind of, you know, like a, like a style of doing the work, but at the same time, you know, like, how does Uh, are you 100%? Right? So that's the first question

Nirmal: 00:34:07
I usually ask, right? Am I 100 percent uh, giving up for my everything for this project? If not, then what are the factors that is hindering me, right? Uh, take care of this, those factors as well. You know, uh, one thing I suggest the young folks, especially, uh, if I look back, my own young version is I used

Nirmal: 00:34:24
to just sideline, uh, this emotional intelligence and I focus more on building my tech skills, you know, and, and delivering the project on time or Trying to, you know, like get a raise, uh, or trying to, you know, uh, get that promotion done in time, a lot of stuff, but, uh, I might be, I might be kind of like, uh, missing to develop some, some other skills that, uh, that

Nirmal: 00:34:49
has to be naturally developed with time. You cannot just come in that, Hey, I wanted to, I wanted to be very patient today. And not tomorrow, you know, like this. So those kind of skills, uh, where you like stress management, having patience, you know, uh, you know, understanding your team culture, you know, uh, are you doing enough to fit in the culture?

Nirmal: 00:35:13
You know, sometimes we, we as a human being sometimes tend to play that, uh, Hey, I am not good fit for the, for the team, but have you done from your side? Like what is the, what is the team culture look like? How do you fit in there? Right? Culturally. So.

Nirmal: 00:35:28
Uh, you don't want to be the odd, odd out yourself with your own reasons, right? So, uh, there's a lot of factors actually come in when it comes to that, uh, emotional, emotional intelligence. And, and this is one area where AI probably won't help.

Hanh: 00:35:46
Yeah. Well, you know, for me, I felt like I had to upscale my emotional intelligence when learning how to prompt because I used to think things were linear. I mean, if it's a formula, well, it isn't. So

Nirmal: 00:36:02
Yes.

Hanh: 00:36:03
And to become ,uh, better at prompting, you really need to think 360 around how to arrive to your, uh, solution. So I had to learn a lot in developing my emotional intelligence and to become a better prompter. So, yeah, it's again, you know, people talk about how AI could replace your job and so forth, I guess to each his own.

Hanh: 00:36:28
I'm sure it's very possible, but I think if you use AI to develop yourself in one instance. your emotional intelligence can increase your value in all regards of life. Not only in the marketplace, right?

Nirmal: 00:36:43
Right.

Hanh: 00:36:44
Yeah. So.

Nirmal: 00:36:45
Yeah. One thing, one thing I would like to quickly throw in there was like the one factor for, for emotional intelligence that I always find it fascinating and it's very important not only for, to build your own, uh, On, you know, emotional intelligence skills, but that is also being, uh, kind of integrated with every product

Nirmal: 00:37:04
that we build, which is empathy, right? Uh, and Microsoft also plays a huge. I mean, they also contribute a huge role towards that, uh, empathy being one of the emotional intelligence factor, but. That not only helps like you always have to take a step back and think about from from everyone else in the team's perspective, right? So like you have to have

Nirmal: 00:37:22
that empathy, right? So and it actually resonates when you're building the product Be AI related product or no AI related product or anything. Whatever you are building the ultimate thing is how are you gonna solve some problem or if it is a customer facing tool or if it is Some something that a disabled community is gonna use, right? Uh, you are probably building a lot

Nirmal: 00:37:44
of innovative tools, but if you do not factor in the empathy in there, uh, I think it's not going to work out well, uh, you know, so that is, that is going to be in your product as well as in your own, uh, skill set, right? As a emotional intelligence skill. So.

Hanh: 00:38:03
I agree.

Nirmal: 00:38:03
That is, yeah.

Hanh: 00:38:05
Wholeheartedly, especially if you are creating products for folks, you know, older adults, let's say 50 plus, there's considerations that you need to take into account. So, very much so.

Nirmal: 00:38:16
Yeah, your whole requirements change based on the, your, your consumers, you know, like, you know, how, how well you are building something. The product is doing something doesn't mean that you build it right, you know. The product is doing something, but is it, is it doing the way that people want it? Is it doing the way that they like it? Is it doing the way that

Nirmal: 00:38:38
they can embrace it? All these factors matters, right? So, so this is where empathy plays a big role.

Hanh: 00:38:45
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I agree. So the integration of data can be as complex as it's transformative and data comes in all shapes and sizes and sometimes from multiple sources. So can you share, let's say an example of a project or a situation where you're integrating multiple

Hanh: 00:39:05
data sources, that proved to be both challenging and rewarding?

Nirmal: 00:39:12
Yes. Yes. I can actually talk about my first data science project when I joined Wells Fargo, uh, uh, you know, uh, as official title as a data scientist. Right. So, uh, And we were in a project, uh, where, like I mentioned before, this is where your data

Nirmal: 00:39:28
engineering skills comes handy. Uh, because what you have to do is, uh, when you are building the initial proof of concept, you know, uh, like you are trying to showcase that this is an ML solvable problem, right? Because we discuss problem in the room, we come out of the room with the stakeholders, then we're like, okay, what are we, how are

Nirmal: 00:39:51
we going to solve this problem? So, and then what other data set do we have? So, the first thing we did was, uh, uh, the brainstorming session where if you have everything in an ideal world, if you have all the data set, forget about what data we have or not. You know, if we think about that, we are already biasing ourselves that, hey, We,

Nirmal: 00:40:13
we may not be thinking all the hypothesis. So the first thing is like start a clean slate. Like if you have everything on your hand right now, if you get all the data, what is the hypothesis you think will help us to make this prediction better? The work we are, the project we are doing was, we are trying to predict whether the loan will default or not, right?

Nirmal: 00:40:32
So we can think about like the transaction data, you know, like the, the credit bureau report for consumer. Various data set, we start thinking about it. Then the next step comes in, how do you get this data? Uh, in, in one of the challenges I had was in, especially in, in the big, uh, company like Wells Fargo,

Nirmal: 00:40:50
you know, uh, and, and in, even in many other companies, my experience is like there is a data ownership, right? Everyone maintains their own data that they are producing, right? So, uh, and then sometimes it is not well integrated. It's always siloed. Uh. Uh, I think that's the reason why the data

Nirmal: 00:41:09
lake companies are, are doing good in the startup market like Snowflake, Databricks, they, they realized that was the problem. So they come up with a solution that, hey, we can bring you the analytics workspace. We can, we can help you build that integrated platform. Uh, but when you don't have that, right, or in, in all cases, it may not be there that well integrated, uh, data is siloed.

Nirmal: 00:41:35
Uh, the challenges are going to be like the. Connecting with those individual people to set up the data contract, you know, uh, and then. Some of the data could be PII related. How do you, how do you make sure that you, you are anonymizing or, you know, redacting or how to using it? Uh, you don't want to, uh, lose,

Nirmal: 00:41:54
uh, customer information, right? You don't want to get cost customer information exposed because, uh, whenever we're building the POC or any, even if we are building the model, there's a lot of this. Uh, data that is not relevant for the model, we don't really have to bring it to our system and be exposable, right? So, I think, I think we, we,

Nirmal: 00:42:15
there's various tools I have, like, you know, we used, uh, and that's when, like, we probably bring it to one, uh, integrative spot. Uh, I think we used PySpark to, to run the batch label job. Uh, Like every night or every whatever time frame we set up to run these jobs to orchestrate it. We touch upon all the data

Nirmal: 00:42:42
sources that we need to. Uh, after creating the contracts with them, uh, signing up the proper paperworks and setting up the right access, uh, we make sure that the data we bring is in a secure location. It is only role based access for only data scientists who are working on this project has access. And then now that data, we

Nirmal: 00:43:02
bring everything, but that data is, uh, needs to be cleaned. Uh, What is the keys that I can use to join these multiple tables? Uh, Everyone has their own definition of attributes. The way they define certain keys, uh, or certain fields is different. Uh, So many challenges were around the data format and data types.

Nirmal: 00:43:25
Even after bringing them, uh, so, the trans, data transformation and data cleaning is actually I would say the most heavy lifting thing that data scientists will do, you know, and, and if that is not done properly, your model, whatever you are building in the successive stages, uh, is going to fail because ultimately it's going to be garbage in, garbage out, right.

Nirmal: 00:43:48
So that's true for everything.

Hanh: 00:43:50
Yes. That's very true. That's very true. So now, keeping up with tools of the trade is part of any job and the toolkit for data scientists is always expanding. And so how important is it for data scientists to stay updated with new libraries of tools and how do you do it?

Nirmal: 00:44:09
Yeah, this is very good question. Uh, I get this a lot from my mentees, uh, when I do the mentorship calls, they're like, Hey, this is a little overwhelming, you know, uh, how, how I keep up with this, uh, uh, train, you know, and, uh, I always tell that, you know, uh, there's, there's so much thing we can learn, you know, like you don't want to be over flood yourself, you know, uh, I actually

Nirmal: 00:44:32
read it somewhere in one of the book that multitasking is a way to, uh, do everything wrong at the same time, uh, or you do everything at the same time, right? So I think we can like, there's some cases where multitasking helps, but some cases where if you define, uh, there's so many areas that you're going to focus on. In a way, you are limiting yourself to one specific area as well.

Nirmal: 00:44:58
Uh, so, I suggest people, especially the way that I do is, uh, and I suggest the same thing that has been working for me, is like, hey, keep a lot of things as informational, uh, than distraction. Right? So, I may not be able to move, and I may not have to, because it depends on my area of specialization I wanted to focus on. Uh, so, depending on what is your area of

Nirmal: 00:45:21
specialization or your to focus on, uh, what you think will be valuable, uh, come up with your own subset of that, right? Uh, don't go after the superset, right? So, and being up to date and informational is always good, because you are working in the data industry that Uh, tomorrow GPT 4 has some, uh, different new feature that has been released that none of the other model covers.

Nirmal: 00:45:52
It's good to know that kind of feature, how it works in surface ly, uh, but you don't really have to commit yourself to learn that right away. Right. And are you ready to learn that right away is like, are you building upon your skills, uh, in a linear way, right? Like, because a lot of these things is, uh, it is foundational, right?

Nirmal: 00:46:12
You have to have enough foundational, right? So I'm just learning classical ML today. And then for that, for that specific group of people, I'm not going to suggest to go jump into, uh, learn the lang chain and set up the agent and do the new GPT stuff, you know. I will probably suggest them to do. Hey, once you finish classical ML,

Nirmal: 00:46:30
go take some classes of natural language processing because the basics are say, like the base foundation is going to stay the same. It's like how this words are tokenized, you know, how embeddings work, what is embeddings, you need to learn all those basics and then from there you can start learning how transformer model works, what is transformer model.

Nirmal: 00:46:54
And then you go to GPT world. Don't go from classical ML to GPT world directly. That is the biggest mistake one can make, right? So, that is why you set up your learning journey or road map. And everyone's road map should be different. I mean, you know, that's why

Nirmal: 00:47:08
it has to be personalized. Uh, I usually tell people to do self skill assessment first, where I'm like, like, you know, what are the things that I wanted to learn now? And then only you do the gap analysis, right? Mm hmm. You have to measure that first.

Hanh: 00:47:25
Very true. So. I want to touch upon the foundational aspect of data quality.

Nirmal: 00:47:33
Yeah.

Hanh: 00:47:33
Clean data is the backbone of accurate analysis. So you emphasize the importance of data cleaning in the machine learning journey. So what's your go to technique for ensuring clean and reliable data?

Nirmal: 00:47:49
Yeah. So this is, this is very important question and some of these things we have to define. Setting up some, some criteria that you've got to measure. Uh, you know, like, uh, especially there is some standard ways to, to look into, like, is, is my data complete, you know, how many missing values are there,

Nirmal: 00:48:07
you know, uh, and if there are missing values, you need to not blindly say that, hey, in industry, we learn, hey. Missing values if it is only a few few hundred rows out of thousand data points, just drop it, right? So a lot of people blindly drop it. So that's not a standard. I mean that could be that could work in the some, you know, like a experimental

Nirmal: 00:48:29
data set that we use to build something but You need to understand the, uh, implication of dropping those data points. What, what are you dropping for? Why are you dropping for? Sometimes it could be an easy fix. Uh, it could be just a diagnostic issue that for a few days the, the sensor was out. You've got to get back to the

Nirmal: 00:48:46
data engineer saying, Hey, I'm having missing values. seems like only for a few days. Uh, so it's not missing at random. It's just missing for that particular time frame. Uh, they will check for you. And then it could be, well, the, just the, uh, diagnostic issue, right? Uh, in some cases it could be that,

Nirmal: 00:49:03
uh, that particular field was not populated, that, that thing was not ready in the pipeline, you know, so everything is missing. So it doesn't mean that you're going to drop everything, right? So, Uh, so if, is your data complete? That's one thing. And is your data consistent? Right?

Nirmal: 00:49:20
So are you like always good if you're bringing data from multiple sources? The example that I gave before to add another timestamp of when the data was added in the system, right? So when it was modified or something. So have multiple timestamps that gives you, uh, enough confidence that the, the data is consistent right? With, with the time.

Nirmal: 00:49:42
Uh, it's, it's not like. There's no gaps, right? Uh, the other things will be the validation that the, you know, like how do you validate you, you random sample some data and then try to see, you know, validate some of your come up with some of your hypothesis to test in the data and then validate that. Uh, I mean, in today's, uh, today's

Nirmal: 00:50:00
market, I think there's data observability is becoming very popular. And that data observability is actually dealing with the same thing, right? The same question that you asked, you know, that actually is a single word answer. But data observability means a lot of things, right? And it actually handles everything,

Nirmal: 00:50:19
like I mentioned, like, you know, is your data complete, is it consistent, is the quality good, uh, how are you validating, you know, how often you are validating, uh, and I would, I would think you should set up this guardrails even in your ML pipeline, right? If, if you have a dependency of getting the data from multiple sources and you are batch processing it, like I said

Nirmal: 00:50:38
before, using the Spark or any other tool, whatever the tool, regardless of tool, After you batch process it, you have to have some sort of, uh, guardrails or checkpoints to make sure that, you know, data is still good and to meet all these requirements before you pass it to model for retraining or whatever, right? Uh, that's another thing. Every time we retrain our model, we

Nirmal: 00:51:01
have to make sure that we are furnishing or fabricating the right data, right? Uh, so that is very important.

Hanh: 00:51:10
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. We're getting close to the end. So I have one more question.

Nirmal: 00:51:17
Yes.

Hanh: 00:51:17
So with great power comes great responsibility, especially in AI. And as you know, AI is pushing the boundaries of what's possible, raising questions about data privacy. So with advancements in AI, like chat GPT's multimodal capabilities, what's your take on the balance between innovation and data privacy?

Nirmal: 00:51:39
Yeah, this is, I think this is a very important question that everyone should touch upon, or if someone is working on the AI tool in today's GPT related model, the advanced LLM models, they always have to figure out like, what is the responsible AI piece to it, uh, you know, how this AI is interacting, uh, at the end, like how we, how we are, ultimately

Nirmal: 00:52:04
it's like how human are using it. And is there enough, uh, security checks regarding data privacy, uh, regarding the, the trumps, uh, like all these prompts, uh, being. Uh, polluted or not, you know, uh, if we only talk about the, the ML side, there are various things that we can, we can work on like data poisoning, model poisoning, are those things

Nirmal: 00:52:27
considered, you know, uh, but all, but at the high level, uh, I think, uh, I suggest people to set up, uh, responsible AI assessment, impact assessment. In, uh, Microsoft, we have different team or different professionals with expertise assigned for that. Any project that we do that has to go in production has to go through that, uh, you know, the, uh, loop with the

Nirmal: 00:52:50
responsible AI champs to, to review it. Uh, so I think even at the startup level or any, any, any, any companies has to somehow, uh, come up with their own process, uh, to make sure that, you know, and now I think it is, it is coming up already with the executive order as well. Uh, which was previously just the voluntary commitment from the companies, but now the administration has rolled out

Nirmal: 00:53:16
the agility order saying that, hey, uh, if you are dealing with the AI system. Using this, uh, advanced models, uh, you have to make sure you are setting all these test results, uh, you know, to, to the, to validate, right, from, from the authority, uh, personals. And then I think that is important because, uh, even without mandatory, a mandate option, I would probably

Nirmal: 00:53:40
as, I'd probably do that, right? Uh, is, is the model, uh, leaking any of your sensitive information, uh, you know, uh, All your data like for example, we are using the private data to fine tune our model the advanced models like gpd models Where is that data residing right? Can we lock down that data to turn off the logging that the model will not take it back?

Nirmal: 00:54:05
to Its own bigger purpose to train it, you know because you may not want to release all your data to the OpenAI to available for training. It could be some data that you may, you may not care. But if the data you care, then there has to be a way that when you interact with this API, how do you make sure that the, this logging is

Nirmal: 00:54:28
not on, you know, memory caching is, is, is done right in a proper way. Uh, everything is, has to be confined to a system someone has established. So things like that. There's a lot of things. I think in summary, like I would say, Responsible AI is just, you know, following that guidelines. Uh, uh, and companies like Microsoft,

Nirmal: 00:54:47
other companies is also doing it. Uh, we have also published a lot of, uh, handful or informative documents on how, how do you do, uh, the Responsible AI? How do you follow those guidelines? And, uh, at the minimum, you can follow those guidelines and make sure that every project gone through that process, you know?

Hanh: 00:55:08
Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, I put it simply how I look at it is be mindful of, let's say your work and its output. If your output or your solution, if you don't want that to impose on your children, then don't do it. Right. I mean, it's as simple as that.

Hanh: 00:55:26
It's being responsible with empathy. And it's humane. So, always think in terms of the work that you do, the output from AI that you produce, would you impose that onto your children? And there's your answer. Yes. You know, what you want to do with it. Well, thank you so much.

Hanh: 00:55:45
Do you have anything else you would like to share before I close up?

Nirmal: 00:55:48
No, I think it's good. I love the session, uh, you know, to be frank, I didn't prepare much questions or anything and it naturally went very well. I like the way the questions were asked. It was very nice. And I'm happy that I was able to come here and share my experience, uh, not only related to the data science, but various aspects touching the

Nirmal: 00:56:08
emotional intelligence, things like that always, always very important and crucial, right? For, for a professional career or, uh, in any field we are in, right? Not only data science. So thanks for having me. Yeah.

Hanh: 00:56:21
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you. It's been wonderful learning from your expertise and your journey from Naples to the world of data science. You've shown us that no matter where you start, you can reach great heights. And your passion for teaching and helping others is really something special.

Hanh: 00:56:39
So thank you so much for. Just giving us a lot to think about and sharing your wisdom and what you do. So this conversation is what makes this podcast, what it is, sharing stories and, um, helping across the board. But a lot of the listeners here are from the aging sector. So it's, uh, it's been wonderful. So for you folks tune in for next

Hanh: 00:57:03
couple of weeks, where we will have more LinkedIn live events. The next couple of ones will be "AI Empathy - the Synthesis of Technology and Compassion", and another one is "Data Alchemy, Turning Numbers into Insights", then "Navigating AI's New Frontier", and then "Empowering the Golden Generations". Thank you so much. Until next time.

Hanh: 00:57:31
Take care.

Nirmal: 00:57:33
Thank you.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Welcome to Boomer Living, a podcast dedicated to the AI and the digital evolution and its impact on the aging journey. I'm your host, Hanh Brown. So today we're venturing into the world of artificial intelligence and its implications for senior well being. As technology advances and break through speed, it's a boon and a challenge,

Hanh: 00:00:27
especially for our aging population. Whether it's the promise of telemedicine, or the pitfalls of online misinformation. AI is reshaping the landscape of our digital age. So joining us is an AI and ML machine learning innovator, Srijan Kumar. With over 16 years of specialized experience, particularly in natural language processing and generative

Hanh: 00:00:52
AI, he's the assistant professor at Georgia Tech's College of Computing. And his groundbreaking methods are at the heart of platforms like Flipkart and Twitter's Birdwatch. With a stellar academic journey that includes roles at Google AI and Stanford University, and honors such as the NSF Career Award, and a spot in Forbes 30 under 30, I am thrilled to

Hanh: 00:01:20
have him on Boomer Living Broadcast. So, in this episode we will delve deep into the transformative role of AI, its potential in areas like early detection of cognitive decline, safeguarding seniors online, and a broader society implications of misinformation. So whether you're a caregiver, tech enthusiast, or just eager to understand AI's role in the lives

Hanh: 00:01:51
of the aging community, you're in for an enlightening session. So, let's dive in. All right. So welcome, Srijan.

Srijan: 00:02:04
Hi. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Hanh: 00:02:08
Yes. Thank you. And welcome. So to get started, please share with us a little bit about yourself professionally and personally. And then shed light on your research and how you approach the challenges of web safety and integrity.

Srijan: 00:02:24
Sure. So everyone these days uses the internet. I grew up using the internet and had accounts on some of the earlier social media platforms. And there I was fascinated by how I could connect with my friends who are like, who I haven't chatted with in a very, very long time. And I used to spend a lot of time

Srijan: 00:02:42
on these websites and platforms. Uh, and as I realized the great potential it has, such as crowdsourcing platforms, crowdsource knowledge sharing platforms, such as, uh, Wikipedia, and social network platforms, I also saw a lot of downsides. Because I saw people were harassing each other. Uh, people were adding false information on Wikipedia articles.

Srijan: 00:03:09
Um, and people were just not being quote unquote nice. So, uh, that was around the time when I got super fascinated with AI and machine learning and data science. And I started my PhD at the University of Maryland after doing my undergrad, uh, at i i t in India. And that's where I started my research journey around creating the state-of-the

Srijan: 00:03:33
art AI, machine learning, data science algorithms that could ident, that could detect, predict, and mitigate the online, the harmful effects of bad actors and harmful content online. So over the last decade or so, I've created some of the foremost algorithms that have, uh, that can identify false information, online hate speech, uh, targeting Asians or black population.

Srijan: 00:04:00
Uh, we have created, I've created algorithms that look into how one can identify fake reviews in e commerce platforms. False information inserted in Wikipedia articles and Bad actors who are doing these harmful activities and it has been a super Interesting and fun journey doing this because it's always a cat and mouse game where we create the

Srijan: 00:04:24
algorithms We create the greatest best algorithms to identify them and then the bad actors try to adapt and change their behaviors So that they don't get caught over this course over This, this period, as you mentioned, Hanh, uh, we, we have created algorithms that have been implemented at Flipkart, which is India's largest e commerce platform, uh, have influenced Twitter's birdwatch system

Srijan: 00:04:50
and a few others as well, which many, which billions of people use every day. So it's been, it's been incredible, um, everyone from a teenager to a senior citizen, everyone uses social media, internet platforms. So essentially the work that we are trying to do helps to keep everyone safe.

Hanh: 00:05:10
Wow. Congratulations. I love everything about what you said, what you do and how you service a wide range of age, particularly for folks. You know, for seniors who are perhaps more susceptible to online scams or misinformation. So let's say how, how can your research in web safety and integrity be applied

Hanh: 00:05:30
to protect the older generations online?

Srijan: 00:05:33
You're absolutely right that the older citizens. are particularly vulnerable. Um, this has been shown for misinformation as well that older citizens are, uh, more susceptible to believing false information even though it's, even though um, it's not verified. There's ton of research that has done surveys, uh, both qualitative

Srijan: 00:05:56
surveys and quantitative ones and larger scale data analysis to show that that is in fact the case. In today's world of Uh, of generative AI where, uh, things can be aware of false information, fake videos, fake phone calls, fake audio can be easily generated. They, everyone's susceptible, but specifically older population as well. In fact, I was on a

Srijan: 00:06:22
flight a few months ago. Uh, it was back, uh, I believe in early summer. And, uh, I, I was scrolling on Google and I saw a news article where it said, That an elderly couple, um, grandparents living somewhere in Canada, they got a phone call. Um, sounded like their grandson. The voice was saying they're in

Srijan: 00:06:48
trouble, they really need some money urgently because, you know, if they don't, they'll get into more trouble. And the elderly couple essentially panicked, went to their bank, transferred around 21, 000, uh, to, to, who turned out to be a scammer. So, elderly population are susceptible, so is everyone else, but slightly more for the elderly population.

Srijan: 00:07:12
So, I believe the type of techniques, the type of solutions that need to be created to help, uh, help them is... is twofold. One is education, essentially telling them that, see, the world has changed and this is possible now. You know, you need some sort of, uh, defense mechanisms to be able to verify the person who is calling you

Srijan: 00:07:32
is indeed, uh, is indeed the person who is, uh, who they claim to be. And the second is a suite of algorithmic solutions, AI based algorithmic solutions that can help safeguard, uh, users of these platforms to begin with. So, uh, like one thing, one many practical solution that I've created with my family, with my parents, is we have created a safe word.

Srijan: 00:08:03
Uh, which is like a verbal password, which me and my family members know, my parents, my, my wife and everyone, like we all use the same password. this verbal password. And if someone's feels fishy or suspicious about about a phone call or something, they can just ask for that password, right? And since we haven't like noted it

Srijan: 00:08:24
down anywhere or something, it's it's like it's very unlikely that a stammer, um, would be able to get that, right? So even like these small hacks, small solutions, practical solutions are ways in which one can protect Um, protect your loved ones from being scammed, from being harassed online and so on.

Hanh: 00:08:48
Mm hmm. And you know what? I echo the sample that you cited about people calling in, pretending to be a voice and as you know, you can clone voice nowadays readily, but this is before, this is a few years ago when someone did claim to be my son calling grandparents and then grandma didn't know. Grandma said, is this?

Hanh: 00:09:08
So, and so? Then it gave away my son's name, which then this person later on calls, Hey, I am, this name. Well, anyway, so you got to be careful who you give away your names or your children's name.

Srijan: 00:09:23
Absolutely. Yeah. No, that is.

Hanh: 00:09:27
It's just ugly, you know? And how awful is that to capitalize on seniors, vulnerability and naivety and so forth. And here's the other thing I'm seeing more and more. Where you get an email, you won X amount, you know, lottery or something, you won something click here and you click here, type in such and such, you know?

Hanh: 00:09:51
It's, it's awful.

Srijan: 00:09:53
Those scams, uh, email scams have been going around for a very, very long time, pretty much since emails became quite popular. Um, you know, as I was mentioning earlier, it's a cat and mouse game. So, there are algorithmic filters that have been created to identify such scam emails and prevent them. from reaching your inbox.

Srijan: 00:10:13
That's right. But, again, bad actors are creative. They try various different variations of, of content that they're trying to pass on as being authentic and see whatever gets passed, uh, whatever is able to beat these filters, is able to, like, fool these filters, um, to land into your algorithm, uh, into your inboxes. Um, these, the, the examples that

Srijan: 00:10:35
you gave, About people, uh, you know, someone saying your grandson's name or their grandson's name and revealing that it's so easy now you don't even have all like everyone's putting all this information on social media, uh, on there. So on Facebook and so on and so forth, all of that information is there and not to scare anyone. But, uh, nowadays the AI technology

Srijan: 00:11:02
specifically for voice has. Improved or enhanced so much that even a one second clip of your voice can be used to, to essentially clone your voice. Um, so that, that's, that's been around, uh, that's, that has rapidly evolved and, uh, it's very easy to be able to do that. So, solutions wise, uh, uh, like education, so doing a podcast like this that educates the elderly.

Srijan: 00:11:36
population that, hey, something like this is possible. Be aware of this and be proactive in taking certain steps. Those are, that is part of the solution. Creating algorithms and systems like the ones that my students and I create at Georgia Tech are another set of solutions where Sometimes we work with these tech industries to

Srijan: 00:11:58
help them improve their systems by creating algorithms that are better than the state of the art right now. Um, and, and, uh, I think like this two pronged approach is important. Simultaneously, other solutions are the ones that, other solutions, um, are specifically around online myths and disinformation that need to be created. And, um, I am working with, um, with

Srijan: 00:12:25
some collaborators, social scientists and communication experts at various universities where we are trying to create systems that help empower professional fact checkers and journalists more efficient in their job. You know, there's so much false information out there. And people do fall prey to them and the only, uh, reasonable line of defense

Srijan: 00:12:55
against them is, is good journalism and, uh, what we are trying to do, uh, and, and right now the state of journalism and fact checking is such that it's super difficult for someone, uh, for, for these fact checkers to be able to To essentially fact check everything that's out there because there's just too much of that and too few fact checkers. So, what we are doing is to help them by

Srijan: 00:13:18
creating these, uh, algorithmic systems, AI systems, that can help identify, detect and, uh, detect and prioritize content that can potentially be... fall that they can fact check and do it in a timely proactive manner rather than doing it and doing it in a reactive manner after things have already reached and influenced people. So, We are working with various

Srijan: 00:13:46
different organizations to help them be more efficient. And we are hoping that our AI systems will be able to, uh, to, to essentially reduce the reach that online misinformation has today and in the future.

Hanh: 00:14:03
Wow. What, what a wonderful undertake and best to you in all these projects you have. And I concur with you. I mean, misinformation is out there and there's, there's. Folks online, like you said, not so great intentions. And this is very concerning when we think about seniors and it's

Hanh: 00:14:23
not just about false info, but also about a broader effect that it can have like mental health. Right. So misinformation. From those online from bad actors, could you explain the impact of that on mental health in as well as your research contribution in this area?

Srijan: 00:14:44
Yeah, thanks for the question. So, you know, me and my colleagues at Georgia Tech, we hypothesized early during the pandemic that there's a lot of confusion around COVID misinformation, false information around COVID being spread, and that's causing a lot of panic and confusion, um, and at the same time, everyone's already stressed about this new virus, new thing that's happening

Srijan: 00:15:09
around the world, everyone's, everyone and their loved ones are being impacted. So we, uh, and there's just too much chaos for those of you who may remember, um, I just do too many things going on at the time. And what we hypothesized was. Misinformation not only misleads people and, you know, uh, misinforms them, but also it may impact the anxiety

Srijan: 00:15:38
level, the stress level that people have, specifically certain types of misinformation that, uh, certain types of misinformation can be more alarming and, uh, and, and anxiety inducing than others. And since then we have seen other types of misinformation as well, specifically targeting Asian population, uh, around covert, uh, covert. 19 origins and so on, uh, which have

Srijan: 00:16:05
led, actually, uh, led to physical harassment, violence, uh, against these, uh, against Asians, both, uh, both young as well as old. In fact, um, this, there are a few organizations in California that are curate, that were at least curating a list of incidents, um, of violence, harassment, threats, both online as well as in the physical world.

Srijan: 00:16:37
And overwhelmingly, uh, you would see that older populations were being, were being impacted as well. So we were seeing a lot of impact, um, online as well as in the physical world of misinformation. So, we set out to study and quantify how much impact there might be. And what we found through a very extensive research process, where, uh,

Srijan: 00:17:05
we collected a lot of data specifically from Twitter, which is one of the most popular social media platforms. And what we analyzed was, was the, uh, was this hypothesis that does consuming misinformation increase your anxiety? And what we found was, in fact, it does. Um, broadly, it increases your anxiety twice, uh, as, uh, compared to, you know, not, not, uh, consuming misinformation.

Srijan: 00:17:37
And, uh, that was, uh, that was across the board for various different, uh, populations across race, across, uh, gender, um, as well as across different education levels. So people who are more educated and less educated, everyone's was, everyone was being impacted by this increase of anxiety, uh, due to misinformation. What was worse was it's already proven

Srijan: 00:17:59
that people who are more anxious are more vulnerable to misinformation. So this creates this vicious cycle where you consume misinformation, you become more anxious. And because you are more anxious, you are more vulnerable to misinformation. And this just cycle just continues and you can spiral down. So, um, since, so, so over

Srijan: 00:18:25
hope for conducting this work, conducting this research. was to be able to say that this negative impact exists, first of all. And second, um, you know, that platforms, uh, government agencies, mental health organizations, seniors, senior organizations, all need to be, need to proactively take steps. to not only mitigate misinformation

Srijan: 00:18:53
and remove it from the platforms, but also take steps to counter the harms, the alternate harms that occur because of spread and consumption of online mis and disinformation. So this was, um, this, this was timely as well as, you know, um, important for the older population as well, because they Not only consume more information, more, more misinformation, but also maybe

Srijan: 00:19:22
more vulnerable to, uh, to, to these mental health anxiety stress impacts.

Hanh: 00:19:32
I echo that. You want to encourage them to use digital media and so forth to stay connected, especially in the scenario you described, which is during COVID. So we still want to have a means to engage. Whether it's post COVID or during, like what we're doing right now in, in our conversation, I

Hanh: 00:19:51
learned so much about your work. Not everybody has the means to go to different events, right? And especially when older adults, many of them are on a fixed income. So connecting with people on social media is a great outlet, but again, proceed with caution, right? It's so important. Okay.

Hanh: 00:20:10
We've seen online shopping or browsing reviews and wonder. Is this review genuine or just someone trying to manipulate the system? And beyond shopping, the web can sometimes be a tough space, especially with hate speech targeting certain communities. And it's important to recognize and address these challenges. Let's talk about online manipulation

Hanh: 00:20:32
from fake reviews on shopping sites to darker corners where hate speech lurks. So could you discuss your research on detecting fake reviews? And then how has it been implemented in the production of Flipkart?

Srijan: 00:20:52
Sure. So this, uh, we, we started this very interesting project back, uh, around seven, eight years ago where, you know, online e commerce platforms were already very, very popular. And they, and they were so popular that. Sellers were purchasing fake reviews so that their products get highly ranked by the search algorithms, by the ranking

Srijan: 00:21:14
algorithms that e commerce platforms have. They should rely heavily on the, on the reviews that, uh, that these products have received. So what these sellers were doing was trying to purchase fake reviews to increase their own ranking and ratings while reducing the ranking and ratings of their competitors. Um, prior to our work, research has

Srijan: 00:21:37
shown that a one star increase in rating could increase the revenue by double digit percentage points of a seller. Which is huge if you think about the scale at which many of these sellers operate. So there's a huge incentive, both, uh, fina um, mostly financial, uh, for these sellers to, to conduct these fake reviews, to increase their ratings by conduct by adding fake reviews.

Srijan: 00:22:08
Because of that, um, platforms like Amazon and others are struggling with dealing with ways to identify and remove fake reviews. Because if you think about it, uh, there's no absolute truth to the quality of a product. You may like a product, but I may not. And both are valid opinions about the same product, right?

Srijan: 00:22:30
So it gets super difficult to identify whether a particular piece of review that someone has given to a particular product, whether that's genuine or that's fake. So it's a very challenging problem. And, uh, therefore we came up with an AI algorithm that would use not just the piece of content that's written, but looking at what are the other reviews that a user has written and what are the

Srijan: 00:22:54
other reviews that a product has received. And we would create what is called a graph or a network, which would represent the different entities. In this case, the users and the products and the sellers. in the, in the platform. And what it would try to do is to identify, um, the, to, to weed out the bad fake reviewers from the genuine ones.

Srijan: 00:23:22
So we created a very sophisticated at the time, uh, system that would be able to identify and remove them, uh, and, uh, or flag them rather. And what we did was we ran it on various different large scale data sets that were out there from various different platforms, including Amazon and opinions and a few others. And what we were able to show was

Srijan: 00:23:44
that our detection algorithm would be. able to detect these, uh, these fake reviewers at a much higher precision compared to existing, uh, techniques that were out there. And the reason it was so powerful was because it was using this. graph, the network connectivity, as well as behavior patterns extracted from both the users and the reviewers,

Srijan: 00:24:06
as well as from the product and combining all of those to create these insights about, about behaviors. So we ran our system on Flipkart as well, which is India's largest e commerce platform. And we were collaborating with them. So we said, here are the 150 accounts that our algorithm thinks is, is are problematic, potentially problematic.

Srijan: 00:24:34
Can you, can you check and tell us whether that's indeed the case? And then they went through these accounts and then, you know, they had access to a lot more information and data than we did. And they were able to validate that 127 of those were in fact fraudulent accounts that were giving fake reviews. Um, so eventually our system was integrated, uh, was, was used in

Srijan: 00:25:01
production at Flipkart and we have also released our algorithms, our AI systems so that others can benefit from it. The world has changed so much since then. Because now it's so, so much more trivial to write fake reviews, uh, on, on any of your favorite, uh, e commerce platforms or a restaurant, like there's fake reviews everywhere. Like I don't buy anything without

Srijan: 00:25:29
looking at reviews, even though I know that, you know, many of them might not actually be true. So, um, it's just the scale with which all of this is happening is, is super, um, super large and. More systems like the ones that I just described are needed to be able to weed out the, the weed from the shaft and also to create a online

Srijan: 00:25:58
ecosystem that is a, uh, that is trustworthy, reliable, and safe for, uh, for everyone to be able to use.

Hanh: 00:26:07
You know, and another thing too, as far as getting positive reviews, people are more inclined to leave negative reviews than they do for positive ones. And perhaps that's what's driving this fake positive ones, you know, but regardless, you might be able to get away with it on some, but if you're looking at businesses with thousands and thousands of reviews, I'm not sure how effective

Hanh: 00:26:34
these scammers are going to be, right? But again.

Srijan: 00:26:38
So the objective of the scammers is, is, oftentimes, not to, not to manipulate the super high, um, super popular products, right? So for any product, um, for any product category, there's what we call a long tail of products. Uh, so a long tail means that there will be some products

Srijan: 00:26:59
that will be super popular. Let's say you are looking at, looking at, um, you know, I don't know, a water bottle, right? So there will be like some products that will be super popular. But there will be then hundreds of products that are not as popular.

Hanh: 00:27:12
Right? Long tail keywords, as opposed to shorter, more searchable, right? The long tail ones are, I guess, a more specific. But still there's a lot of them.

Srijan: 00:27:24
Yeah. So there's a lot of them. And the ranking between them is somewhat ambiguous, right? So they're always, they know that they're not going to be in the top two or top three because those, those are like super popular items. But any search platform has like 10 slots whenever you search for something.

Srijan: 00:27:41
So they're competing for the remaining seven, and they want to be as high ranked as possible. So the fake reviews that are there, I mean, they exist on. Um, they exist as fake reviews on super popular comments, uh, or super popular products as well, but it might not impact them as much, but the long, like majority of the products are not super popular.

Srijan: 00:28:01
1 percent of the products are popular. The remaining 99 percent are all competing to be, to be, uh, to become popular. So that's where the economics of fake reviews, uh, starts getting very, very interesting.

Hanh: 00:28:16
Yeah. All right, so let's talk about trustworthiness and robustness of ai. Well, AI holds so much promise, but how can we truly trust it? Right? How do we make it sure that it's reliable, especially when there are those trying to game the system. So in terms of AI, what are the

Hanh: 00:28:32
challenges ensuring the trustworthiness, reliability, and robustness of machine learning and deep learning models against this manipulation?

Srijan: 00:28:44
Yeah. So let's say that's a big and very active topic of research and the entire AI, uh, AI community. Um, there are even entire conferences that are dedicated. to studying and understanding the fairness, accountability and trustworthiness of AI systems. So, um, the type of work, the type of

Srijan: 00:29:03
threads that have been, that have emerged around trustworthiness of AI are a few. So one of the threads is how to make AI systems more explainable. So essentially what that means is to say why we know an AI system is making certain decisions. Can the AI system explain itself and tell why it's making the decision that it's, that it's making?

Srijan: 00:29:32
Because if we are able to get the, the AI system to be able to explain itself, either, uh, in, in, in, in a textual format or whatever, if we are able to get that explanation, we'll be able to see whether that explanation is logical or not. And second, if there's, if it's illogical or if there is, if there are any errors or biases in the logic.

Srijan: 00:29:56
Uh, then, you know, certain actions can be taken to improve. The, uh, the AI system, right? So explainability is a means to an end where you want to create AI systems that are, uh, that are better. So explainability is one aspect. The other is creating systems that are unbiased and safe, which means you want the AI system to be, to be making

Srijan: 00:30:16
similar, uh, or equivalent decisions. Um, and fair decisions for someone not based on their demographic attributes, but based based on based on the other aspects that are there, right? So let's say there's an AI systems that's doing job ranking resumes for, uh, for a job, right? So you don't want an AI system to be ranking females lower than males just

Srijan: 00:30:45
because just because of their gender or black people lower than white people just because of their race, right? AI systems are more than just ChatGPT There are there are tons of AI systems that are being used for various different important applications such as you know jobs recruiting HR health care finance and loan applications and others and Many times there are government

Srijan: 00:31:10
guidelines and regulations that require AI systems to be unbiased and fair. And oftentimes it's, um, AI systems need to be fair and unbiased to prevent pushback, uh, or negative publicity. So, uh, there's a lot of, lot of, um, A lot of research that has gone into creating systems, first of all, identifying and auditing systems to be, to say whether they're

Srijan: 00:31:39
biased or unfair, and if so, how to fix them and how to create them. So that's like the second stream. So first was. How to create explainable AI. The second is how to create unbiased and fair AI. And the third, uh, big stream is around understanding the robustness and reliability of AI systems, which is

Srijan: 00:32:01
where a lot of my research also lies. So this is, uh, this, this entire thread is around understanding how AI systems can be created in a way. that over time they can be, they can be reliable and robust. Let me break it down what that means. So the way AI systems are created is they are trained on certain data sets. And then those AI systems are then

Srijan: 00:32:27
deployed in, uh, in, in production and then they run for a period of time. Oftentimes when you run it for long times, uh, what you see is that the distribution of the data, the distribution of the labels and the data as well, can change over time in such a way that the distribution shifts and it's not like the the products that the data distribution on which it was trained

Srijan: 00:32:56
is not, uh, not very similar to the one on which it's now being used. So this type of drift, um, this is called drift, so this type of drift can hurd the system into making, um, wrong predictions more often, and you need to be able to identify that something like this has occurred and then fix it. Uh, a lot of times these drift, these drifts occur naturally because of how

Srijan: 00:33:22
these systems are, uh, are created and just how things are evolving. Other times drifts occur when you're creating user facing applications where you drained your data on certain type of user user inputs, and then you release it to the public and the systems and then the users are giving inputs that have very that are very different from the from the inputs that The system was strained.

Srijan: 00:33:49
When that happens as well, the models, uh, the system start to fail. They make, they make up stuff or they just give wrong, uh, wrong outputs and predictions. And all of these are quite bad because you don't want you, I mean, all of these will lead to model failures and unexpected at unexpected places. So this is, this is, these are scenarios

Srijan: 00:34:09
where there's no, no one trying to manipulate, but oftentimes there are bad actors who have purposefully, um, who purposefully aim to manipulate AI systems. So think of someone, uh, someone who wants, um, who, who wants to conduct a fraudulent activity on a banking system that can be accessed through a, through an AI chatbot, they will specifically try to manipulate the chatbot to be

Srijan: 00:34:40
able to, you know, take out money from someone else's account and so on. Other examples are, uh, are bad actors, um, who, who, who, who would try to get, let's say, chat GPT to spit out racist or sexist or unethical stuff, right? So a lot of bad actors are motivated to break AI systems in a way that would, uh, that would harm Either the end users or, uh, or the companies

Srijan: 00:35:11
themselves and, um, a big thread of my research is to be able to identify how, um, how these, uh, how this might be possible and, uh, then how to fix this.

Hanh: 00:35:23
Mm hmm. And this underscores the, the need of data ownership, foundation models. And having your own digital system and ecosystem, like we talked prior to the, to the recording. It's so important. And all the concerns that we're discussing right now could be remedied by having your own foundation model.

Hanh: 00:35:43
Okay. And that's why I'm an advocate for AI value creator, as opposed to just a user, because I think you, you open yourself to exposure and risk. As a user than a value creator. Yeah, I, I echo what you're saying now, now how can AI and machine learning tools be used to detect early signs of cognitive decline or other brain

Hanh: 00:36:10
health issues in the aging population? What's your take?

Srijan: 00:36:14
Uh, before we move on to that question, can I just add something around the foundation model aspect that you mentioned?

Hanh: 00:36:20
Yes.

Srijan: 00:36:21
So, uh, it's, it's, it's great that you bring that up because there's a huge trend in industry to create AI systems internally for your own, uh, for your own applications. Many of, many people, many of my friends and companies. They're building their own, um, own internal large language models, foundation models, deploying them

Srijan: 00:36:39
using open source, uh, versions and fine tuning on their own data, which is great, uh, which leads you to not sending your data to open AI servers or one of these third party servers. That is an essential step, but that's complimentary, uh, to the security that these AI systems need to have. Because you are creating, let's say a foundation model on,

Srijan: 00:37:05
on, on a certain application. That does not necessarily, uh, ensure that nobody can manipulate it. Um, manipulation by bad actors, manipulation due to drift, um, other things like prompt injection, hallucination, all of these are issues that are very inherent to AI systems on, uh, even foundation, uh, on all foundation models.

Srijan: 00:37:29
Even if you create your own, the system, uh, these issues still stay, uh, around. So things, uh, things, things, um, around, around them, keywords that I mentioned, these are all, uh, realistic. These are all happening. And many of the, many of the companies that I've talked to, many of the sponsors of my research, Any of them are struggling with moving their products

Srijan: 00:37:53
from proof of concept to production because of many of these issues. So I think, uh, the issue around safety and security of AI models goes beyond just protecting the data, uh, which is, which is important, but it also a lot around like access control. Uh, and things like, um, um, things like preventing hallucination, detecting hallucinations when they happen, uh,

Srijan: 00:38:15
prompt injections, personally identifiable information leakage, and so on. Mm hmm. What's your take on Watson in Azure AI, for instance? What's your take on that? These are great systems. I think, um, Microsoft has already integrated a lot of foundation models. They have, uh, they have

Srijan: 00:38:34
now partnership with Meta. They have, they already, of course have partnership with Open AI to provide these enterprise scale AI systems, uh, to and private AI sys private child, um, foundation models via their Azure AI sys, um, ecosystem. to enterprises. Uh, those again are a good first step to prevent data from

Srijan: 00:39:02
being sent to external servers. But the issue and the need for creating secure, reliable AI systems still and foundation models and products based on these foundation models still remain.

Hanh: 00:39:16
How do you see AI and machine learning tools be used to detect early signs of cognitive decline or any other health issues for the aging population? What's your take?

Srijan: 00:39:27
Yeah, thanks for the question. Um, so I, of course, is impacting everyone's life and it is being integrated and being, uh, being incorporated into various different health Um, health applications. So there's a huge, uh, effort. Um, a lot of it is funded by NIH and various other healthcare, uh, health organizations where they are

Srijan: 00:39:51
spending a lot of energy resources to understand how AI can be best used to improve healthcare broadly with a huge focus also on elderly healthcare. So, uh, what, what sort of research, uh, the, the. findings there, of course, are the type of techniques that have been created. There are looking a lot at, uh, looking a lot computer vision

Srijan: 00:40:22
as well as national language processing and, uh, audio metrics. So the way these work is they are using signals from these multi. dimensional modalities of information. So looking at the audio, the visuals, the, the content, the semantics of all of these things, where oftentimes they monitor individuals, for example, for an extended period of time to see,

Srijan: 00:40:44
to, to look at, uh, their health, uh, and declines and health and so on. So very, uh, a lot of research, it's a very active area of research, uh, to. understand, um, healthcare needs, anticipate them, detect, uh, detect bad things that are happening, uh, before they happen, and essentially identify early signs of a lot of, a lot of healthcare needs and issues.

Srijan: 00:41:16
Um, I think. As with any healthcare system, it requires a lot of rigorous testing, a lot of, uh, rigorous analysis before, uh, and validation before it actually gets out there for everyone else to use. So I think a lot of these systems are in that phase where they're, where the proof of concept has been created in research and now is being

Srijan: 00:41:40
created, uh, is being validated. And, uh, I'm hoping just like everyone else. I'm hoping that, uh, these AI systems, uh, and are broadly able to improve everyone's health. Um, what I do know is a lot of physicians, healthcare clinicians, uh, healthcare workers are already being assisted by AI systems, um, so that their

Srijan: 00:42:06
workload becomes manageable and they are able to provide better healthcare. services to, uh, to, to their patients and better, better care and better services. So I'm quite bullish. I'm quite positive. And the use of, of AI in various different aspects, not, not just in the direct diagnosis, but also in various different aspects.

Srijan: 00:42:30
of the detection, mitigation of, uh, of various different, uh, healthcare needs.

Hanh: 00:42:36
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That's great. So let's talk about the advancements in multimodal learning. We're diving into the realm of, let's say, think about the blend of vision and language and how they come together in the tech world. It's like teaching machines to

Hanh: 00:42:52
see and understand like we do. And, As technology keeps evolving, especially with things like telemedicine, how do you, how is AI ensuring our seniors get the timely care they need even from a distance? So what's your take?

Srijan: 00:43:12
Yeah, I think that's, that's very important. Telemedicine is around, uh, getting more and more popular, um, and you know, more making it more accessible. There's a lot of, so what we call multimodality in AI. So multimodality and essentially means. Looking at multiple dimensions, multiple axes of information,

Srijan: 00:43:33
and fusing them together. So looking at, uh, audio, visual, uh, long term information that's stored in electronic health records. Uh, looking at, uh, looking at, you know, content from people. So, a lot of signals from a variety, essentially a lot of variety of signals being used to, to make judgments and inferences in a

Srijan: 00:43:57
way that would be most useful. So a lot of AI systems have been created, uh, over the last decade or so that look at various individual aspects of these, uh, of these modalities. So some that just look at images, some that just look at videos, some that just look at the, uh, the, the audio and so on. And now as the systems homogenize, so what, what has happened in the AI field

Srijan: 00:44:25
is that The technology behind each one of these is getting similar and similar. And as that happens, it becomes easy and easier and easier to integrate them together. That has led to creation of this entire idea around multimodality, where you can extract information and signals and insights of all of them together. Which is greater than

Srijan: 00:44:48
the sum of its parts. And this, it has been shown to be like very useful and various different use cases, including, uh, including also in healthcare. And as if you, if you think about it, doctors look, um, like clinicians, doctors, healthcare providers, they look at information in a multimodal manner, and we are trying to create

Srijan: 00:45:09
systems that will be able to do that. Uh, so not so as not to replace. doctors or health care providers, but to augment them and to, uh, to help them be more efficient. So a lot of work is going on around that. Uh, I, uh, I'm hoping that in the next, uh, next few years, we'll be starting to see some of those applications being used and, uh, revolutionizing how healthcare

Srijan: 00:45:38
is provided across the board for, uh, for, for various different things.

Hanh: 00:45:45
Awesome. You know, it's a great time to, uh, to learn the possibilities of AI, right? I mean, I always tell people approach it with enthusiasm, but with caution, great power comes with responsibility. So, um, but in the meantime, you can't consume yourself with fear. You have to move forward and move it with caution.

Hanh: 00:46:07
Like I mentioned, as we head into the final stretch of our conversation. Let's look a bit into what's on the horizon. For instance, where is all this AI and tech research heading and from personalized text generation attacks and dynamic trajectories in interaction networks? There's a lot to unpack and more

Hanh: 00:46:27
importantly, how can AI shape the future of personalized care for our seniors? And given all the advancements. Where do our experts see the future of web safety and especially for the older generation and those who care for them? So, can you explain your work on personalized text generation, a tag on deep sequence embedding, base classification

Hanh: 00:46:55
models and its implications? How is that and how is that going to impact the items I discussed?

Srijan: 00:47:01
Yeah, so, uh, personalized healthcare, personalized, um, you know, chatbots and AI assistants are going to get very, very, very popular. In all aspects of life, we are from education to various different types of services, you know, think about your personal lawyers, and healthcare providers to do a lot of essentially will have these in lots of different aspects and areas.

Srijan: 00:47:31
And we will continue to see. them being built, many of them, um, being built already, uh, to assist in various aspects. So there are, for example, uh, there are healthcare, uh, companies and healthcare foundation models being built that can help essentially provide the best, um, that, that have the values that a doctor has.

Srijan: 00:47:55
And, uh, so that once these foundation models, healthcare foundation models are built, they can be integrated into creating services. Uh, like, like we discussed with personalized healthcare assistance and so on, think about the possibilities where you don't, you, you have your health, your, your healthcare provider essentially on your phone, right?

Srijan: 00:48:18
Uh, you can chat with them, you can discuss anything related to your health with them. And all of these become quite, uh, quite, um, uh, it's a possibility it's a world. where, uh, where productivity has increased a lot and everyone has access to a lot more than, than they do today. So the future holds a lot for, uh, for the entire world.

Srijan: 00:48:44
And what we are going to see is this boom of, of various different applications of AI and everyone's, uh, everyone's life being impacted by it. What, uh, the, the work that you mentioned, which is about personalized text generation attacks, that's looking at the safety of these AI systems and how, uh, bad actors can manipulate these AI systems in a way that would fool.

Srijan: 00:49:14
Uh, that would prevent them from getting caught. So this particular project, uh, came from a, an award that, uh, that Facebook or Meta gave to, uh, gave to me and one of my colleagues. And what they showed, uh, through the research, we showed that bad actors are able to manipulate their behavior ever so slightly in a way that's undetectable to

Srijan: 00:49:40
the AI system, but it fools them in a way that would, uh, that would prevent them from getting caught by, by the AI system. As you can imagine, all these social media platforms and all the, all these online systems. have AI systems in place to identify bad actors and weed them out and remove them. However, as I mentioned earlier, it's a cat and mouse game where bad actors

Srijan: 00:50:10
are also changing their behavior. Very often, in fact, and they're trying to get get their objectives without getting caught. So that's where a lot of a lot of this research comes into play that it's one of the first systems that's showing how bad actors can manipulate these AI systems and how successful they would be in a way by doing personalized text generation.

Srijan: 00:50:35
So they would, they, these bad actors. And the, um, can write in the way they typically would to convey the things that they want to in a way that would, uh, that would not be detected by, by these AI systems. Um, so that's, that's the entire project, uh, objective. And what we were able to show was that even, even Meta's bad actor

Srijan: 00:51:02
detection system can be detect, uh, can be fooled very, very easily, uh, by these bad actors by making. minus changes in the way they write, um, and, uh, they will be able to prevent detection, uh, in a way that would cause a lot of harm. Um, and these are like systems, these detection systems are the ones that are already being used in production

Srijan: 00:51:24
and they would fail one out of, uh, one out of four times, which is a lot. So. This shows the possibility of how the world, uh, which is, uh, which is being empowered by these personalized assistants can also be flipped and can also, the same technology can be flipped and be used by bad actors to conduct these, these types of manipulation in a way that, uh, that

Srijan: 00:51:49
requires us to be a bit more proactive and careful about the ways in which we, we, uh, about how we operate in this world.

Hanh: 00:52:02
You know, I often think with everything that you and I discussed today, obviously there's a lot of precaution one needs to take, but at the same time, you know, we want to be a part of shaping AI as opposed to, gee, AI just happens to me. It just happened to my business. What do I do? Right. So despite the fears and everything

Hanh: 00:52:24
that's so real, what we're talking about. The bad actors and so forth. I think it's even more important that we raise awareness, education, and inspiration that you know what, it's real, but let's be a part of that, shaping the AI. That's so important.

Srijan: 00:52:45
Absolutely. 100 percent agree with that. And I think. Like everyone, uh, everyone will be, since everyone will be impacted by AI, uh, it's so important to be able to, uh, to, to empower AI to be, uh, be empowering, empowering people with AI and empowering AI itself, to be, uh, to be the best it can.

Hanh: 00:53:08
Wow. So what a journey into the world of AI today, especially its implications for our seniors and aging community, from the nuances and misinformation to the innovations of AI for senior care and conversation. How it has covered in a wide range of topics today. Do you have anything else that you

Hanh: 00:53:31
would like to share as we wrap up?

Srijan: 00:53:34
Yeah, I think I'm, I'm super excited about AI. And what I would say is that the same technologies, um, we, we discussed a lot, uh, today. And I believe that the world is already changing because of AI. And, uh, we, we. Can do it in a way that would help everyone.

Srijan: 00:53:57
And I think like doing it responsibly, doing it in a reliable manner, creating AI systems that are robust and reliable and trustworthy is super crucial for the long term implications and the long term use that AI will have in the broader society. So, super excited about what the next decade, uh, is, is going to bring to us, specifically as it's powered and inspired by AI.

Srijan: 00:54:26
And uh, yeah, I mean, we have, we have a lot, uh, to, uh, there's a lot that has been done and there's a lot more to come.

Hanh: 00:54:34
Mm hmm. I echo that. And I also want to interject for the listeners, perhaps baby boomers. One of the things about adapting to AI is also adapting to a lifelong learning attitude, because it's, it can be very intimidating. You're not going to get the output that you provide the input to.

Hanh: 00:54:56
It's a learning process because as you know, how should I say this? We often think that, you know, in the later years, we've had something mastered and perhaps maybe not trusting rightfully so, but I think part of adaptation to anything is. Taking an open mind approach and a life learning approach and keep staying on it, trying, because I

Hanh: 00:55:19
think it will only flourish in your lives and your business life as well. And I also have some exciting news to share to my listeners. My startup has recently partnered with Microsoft startup and we're thrilled to introduce AI50. It's a B2B foundation model. And the model is designed to be a cornerstone of streamline for streamline

Hanh: 00:55:45
business operations, bringing diverse function under one seamless umbrella. What's even more reassuring is that the unwavering commitment to data privacy, ensuring that your business operations are not just efficient, but also secure. So, we'll be diving into this much further in the upcoming linkedIn live event, "Making AI understand you and your data; The foundation model."

Hanh: 00:56:12
It's happening September 19th, 11 AM to 12 PM Eastern time. So we'll be delving into this model, how it can revolutionize your business operations, and answer any questions that you have. And thank you so much to our guest today, Srijan and for shedding light on such intricate facets of AI. Appreciate your time and

Hanh: 00:56:33
your valuable insight. Take care, everyone.

Srijan: 00:56:37
Thanks for the conversation.

Hanh: 00:56:39
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Hello, I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast. It's great to have you here. In the fast paced digital world we live in, technologies like AI, data science, big data, and NoSQL are becoming integral to reshaping numerous sectors. One of which is the realm of senior care. With the potential to revolutionize health predictions, personalize senior

Hanh: 00:00:25
care, and amplify the independence of our older adults, these advanced tools are becoming indispensable in harnessing the power of data for good. They allow us to glean crucial insights from mountains of data, paving the way for informed decision making, resource allocation, and meaningful changes in the lives of the elderly population. Well, our esteemed guest today is none

Hanh: 00:00:49
other than Akmal Chaudhry, a tech titan in the realm of database technology. With a career that beautifully blends roles as a developer, consultant, A product strategist, ACMO has been instrumental in driving numerous tech ventures forward since 1988. Well, he's an acclaimed tech expert, holds degrees in computing and information systems.

Hanh: 00:01:18
Business Systems Analysis and Design, and a PhD in Computer Science, specializing in database performance. A member of the British Computer Society, his charted IT professional title reflects his deep expertise and commitment to ethical IT practices. For today, I'm excited to dive into his wealth of knowledge and explore how he sees these powerful technologies.

Hanh: 00:01:46
playing a role in enhancing the lives of our aging population. Well, so buckle up and get ready for an exciting conversation. So, Akmal, welcome to the show.

Akmal: 00:01:58
Thank you very much, Hanh. And I feel almost red in the cheeks, if you can see the color. Thank you very much for that very glowing introduction. I feel a little bit embarrassed, but it's great. Thank you. Um, I mean, I, I worked throughout my career, not for personal recognition.

Akmal: 00:02:15
I mean, where I've done things that it's, it's a challenge that I take on myself and then something that I want to do, hopefully it's beneficial to other people as well, um, and certainly I've focused on a lot on that in terms of the technology outreach that I do, because, I like people to use stuff and, you know, make practical use of it, not, uh, just for the sake of, uh, you know,

Akmal: 00:02:39
exploring technology, but, uh, have it do something very, very useful for people.

Hanh: 00:02:44
Thank you. Thank you. I'm honored that you're here to shed light on very important topics. And as we discussed previously with the advancement of AI data science. NoSQL and so forth, it's very important to be part of the conversations with experts like yourself so that we all can shape the future of technology

Hanh: 00:03:07
and how it's going to impact. Everyone in all regards. So thank you for your time.

Akmal: 00:03:12
Um, my pleasure. Thank you.

Hanh: 00:03:13
Yeah. So, your journey in the field of database technology has been over several decades starting in 1988. So this period has seen remarkable changes in technology and has shaped the way we approach data today. So can you share a bit about your adventure in the database tech world since 1988?

Hanh: 00:03:35
And what major tech moments have you experienced along the way?

Akmal: 00:03:41
Oh, absolutely, Hanh. So, um, I started life as a developer and, um, you know, when I graduated, I, I worked for an awesome company, uh, which was Reuters in London. And I, and I think looking back, uh, at that time, uh, I worked with probably some of the smartest people that I've ever worked with in, in my entire IT career. And I stuck to them like glue, so I

Akmal: 00:04:01
tried to learn everything from them, because I'm a newbie, and I'm a fresh graduate, fresh face, and, uh, it was quite an eye opener as well, because, uh, some of the initial technology that I worked with was ancient, even when, when I was there, I mean, I worked with PDP 11s and Macro 11 assembler. RTL2, these were, uh, you know, you know, PDP 11s were the ancient stuff

Akmal: 00:04:26
even I enjoyed, but I had to learn it. And the reason for this, and this is a very kind of important point that I realized later was that often a lot of organizations, companies and businesses, enterprises have existing systems that they use. These may be called heritage systems or legacy systems. But there is great business

Akmal: 00:04:47
value in them still. They have to be cared for, maintained and loved, and enhanced. And, you know, someone has to do that, okay? They're not just going to go away. And therefore, gaining that experience actually taught me a great deal throughout the rest of my IT career. So, although it was a very painful

Akmal: 00:05:03
period in my life, with hindsight, I realized that I actually benefited very, very much from it. Um, and I think throughout the intervening decades, Uh, I've seen several waves of technology come and go. And so after my time at Reuters, I mean, an opportunity came up to do research. And it's one of those things in life that you, you decide, well, you know,

Akmal: 00:05:27
maybe I don't get this chance again. And funding was available, so I went back into academia to do research on performance benchmarking. And at that time, the hot technology of the day was something called object oriented databases. And, uh, um, 10 years later, then XML was the hot technology, 10 years after that, NoSQL came along and

Akmal: 00:05:46
the hot technology today is vectors. Everyone's talking about vectors and embeddings because of ChatGPD, uh, you know, uh, OpenAI, HuggingFace, these, uh, uh, types of transformers as they're called. Um, and so these technologies come out and come in waves. Sometimes they are successful. So if I look back at object

Akmal: 00:06:06
oriented databases, very few of those vendors survive to today. Uh, the majority of them are acquired. Some went out of business. The technology didn't cut it. And that's, you know, the way things are sometimes. But one thing I've noticed during this time is that relational is still king. Uh, or queen, you know, in the sense

Akmal: 00:06:24
that it dominates the world today. Uh, and the, the market for the technology, it far supersedes and, you know, is much, much greater than anything else currently available. So it's one of these things that I think is going to be around with us for a long time, just like SQL. So, uh, that's my key observation that, uh, things come and go.

Akmal: 00:06:49
Sometimes stuff stays around for a while, but ultimately, you know, there is a dominant technology today that was still dominant in the time when I started my IT career. I mean, that's where I essentially cut my teeth if it, as it were, gained my skills.

Hanh: 00:07:05
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Great. So, since you started your tech journey, the world has seen a lot of changes and, and I bet you've seen things evolve. in areas, let's say, big data and data science. Can you share more specifics about these areas?

Akmal: 00:07:22
Yes. So I think my biggest observation is the growth in open source software during this time. And specifically, if you look at the likes of Hadoop, for example, Apache Spark, these were open source projects. And, uh, you know, they were donated by companies that were building these systems and then gave them

Akmal: 00:07:42
to the So the community at large, and then they became very popular. And in the early days, it was very unusual because when I started my career in IT, I practically heard of nobody using open source software. Today, it's almost a requirement, you know, and mandated. Uh, the quality of the software, I mean, it varies of course, as does commercial

Akmal: 00:08:06
software, but it gains so much traction and so much widespread use that I think that's my biggest observation that the, the, the choice is mind boggling. You've got so many different packages, so many different tools available and people give their time and effort for this. And then, you know, it's possible for the rest of us to take advantage of these technologies as well.

Akmal: 00:08:29
The other thing I've noticed is the growth in what we could term as kind of off the shelf hardware. Essentially, now you don't need a lot of specialist hardware to run stuff. You can run stuff on standard kind of computer, uh, hardware. You can build your own cluster if you like. And the growth in kind of distributed

Akmal: 00:08:44
processing as well, which is very useful because in the world today, the ability to Kind of distribute your data, bring the processing, um, uh, sorry, bring the data to the processing. Whereas in the past, it was kind of the other way around, you know, that is much cheaper. Uh, and again, gives you a lot of flexibility.

Akmal: 00:09:11
So, you know, corporates have these global systems now where the data distributed all over the world. And, uh, it, it provides some level of redundancy as well, you know, parts of the network go down, it's okay, you know, you, you still have the data available and I think that's the, uh, other observation in terms of the growth of distributed systems.

Akmal: 00:09:29
And I think coupled with that, or the, the thing that's really made that possible is the cloud. That has really enabled a lot of these things to, to happen much faster as well.

Hanh: 00:09:39
Mm hmm. So, now, for those perhaps not as techie, elaborate on open source, closed source, and give some of the more renowned ones that we need to stay close.

Akmal: 00:09:51
Yes. So I think with open source software, uh, the licensing tends to be very generous, uh, usually. And so if you look at, say, the Apache Foundation, which is, uh, one of the better known, Uh, sources in terms of, if you go there, you will see a lot of the top level projects that are available. So it's communities that

Akmal: 00:10:09
develop around these products. They are developed in an open environment. So I could go and look at the source code, for example. I could have a look at how, you know, the algorithms that are used, how things actually work. And that is something that a lot of people give their time and effort to. Um, in the past, for example, when

Akmal: 00:10:29
I worked at IBM, IBM was a great contributor to open source software. Many things that they were proprietary and they owned, they actually gave away to the open source community as well. And that's very unusual, and that is not just pieces of software, but the time of the people that work for them as well. So, it's a, it's a great alternative to closed source software where it's

Akmal: 00:10:53
proprietary, something is developed by a company and they keep the, the algorithms, uh, the tools, technologies they use to develop that and how they build that, that is entirely for them. And because that is part of the, the, uh, the, the, the knowledge and the efforts has gone in to build something. And it makes sense, you know, that these things are not done free.

Akmal: 00:11:14
Um, but if you look at and compare that against the open source space, the quality of the software, you know, is as good in the open source world as it is in the closed source world. And as I said, there are many places where you can find great open source software. I mean, I'm a great fan of, so actually Spark, for example, which is one of the big data

Akmal: 00:11:33
technologies that I frequently use. And again, there is a company that's behind that, Databricks, that I work for. And they offer something beyond just the open source technology. I mean, that is part of how they make money. Um, but if I don't want to, uh, uh, use their services, I can simply go to the Apache Software Foundation.

Akmal: 00:11:54
I can download the latest build, I can install it on my laptop, and I can start using it. Um, and I can do so to solve some business problem that I have. And as I said, because the licensing tends to be very generous, typically I don't have to pay, uh, for, for the privilege of using that software. And developers love free stuff.

Akmal: 00:12:12
They don't want to pay for anything. And so, you know, putting my developer's hat on, it's awesome for people just to try it out and use it for business problems.

Hanh: 00:12:22
Yeah. Well, that's great. That's great. Now, which one of these have shaped your career? And the industry as a whole?

Akmal: 00:12:29
Um, I think that, uh, um, the, the growth in the cloud, I think has been the biggest thing, uh, that, uh, as perhaps, uh, kind of shaped the way I do things today. So in the past, for example, I might build an environment on a computer system or a laptop or somewhere. And that would be very specific to me. I mean, I still do that from time to time,

Akmal: 00:12:54
but things like a virtual machine helps. My machine tends to be customized for my use. But when I need to show people how to replicate the steps that I've done, typically all of the set of instructions that I provide, If I have a cloud based environment, they can go away simply creating an account at no cost or no risk. They can do this now in a space that is

Akmal: 00:13:19
not on their local machine, for example. And that's great because it means, again, they feel much more comfortable running this somewhere else. Essentially, you're using somebody else's computing resources to do that, and you can do that for pennies these days. I mean, you know, the cost of running, say, some big data problem or some machine learning algorithm over large quantities

Akmal: 00:13:46
of data, you're paying very, very small amounts for the privilege of doing that. You're renting some resources from somebody else for that privilege. Of course, it's not yours. But. In terms of what you pay for it, I mean, it's very, very economic and a great way to do it. Uh, I, uh, there's been instances in

Akmal: 00:14:02
the past where I've wanted to run... Uh, a machine learning algorithm, for example, to add, do some analysis of a larger quantity of data, no way do I have the resources at home to be able to do that. I, it's just not possible, but in the cloud I can do that. And again, the cost is very, very minimal. So I think that's the biggest thing that

Akmal: 00:14:22
I've seen is the, the economy of scale. I mean, it just makes things so much more productive. Um, the risk is so, you know, reduced significantly. And again, the steps can be replicated. So if I want to share what I've done with somebody else. And give them all of the, the code, the instructions, the scripts, the data.

Akmal: 00:14:41
Now they can go away and do that. And again, no risk to them.

Hanh: 00:14:45
Mm hmm. I echo that. That's great. So, beyond your hands on work in the technology field, you've also made significant. Contributions to the world of literature in this domain, editing and co editing 10 books. So can you elaborate the key technical

Hanh: 00:15:01
concepts discussed in these books and what inspired you to present these ideas?

Akmal: 00:15:09
Uh, okay. So I think the, initially the very first publishing project that I got involved with Hanh was, uh, Just object oriented databases. In those days, I was a researcher and, uh, I was looking at this technology. Um, and I wanted to get case studies with industry to understand how they were using this technology.

Akmal: 00:15:31
Now, generally, um, organizations, enterprises tend to pick a technology because it gives them a competitive edge. So they aren't necessarily very, you know, want to share with anybody else what they're doing or how they're using that technology simply because it, you know, the world is such that. Um, organizations look for some advantage, you know, business opportunities, they,

Akmal: 00:15:54
they look for threats, uh, challenges, you know, new products and services that they want to bring to market much faster than their competitors. And therefore it was a real struggle for me to find companies that would be willing to, you know, share with me how they were using this technology. So, uh, the idea came to me that maybe I would like to publish a book.

Akmal: 00:16:15
And, uh, uh, one way to do that is as. Rather than writing it myself, which can be quite a time consuming task, work with others, uh, collaborate with others, let them write the chapters. And then I have the opportunity to put that together into a publication. And so that was my initial thinking. I, again, an opportunity to, uh, showcase some of the benefits of this technology,

Akmal: 00:16:40
object oriented databases, as I said. And so that's how it really started. I mean, that was my first publishing project. And of course, when I did the first one, it was not enough. You know, I had to do some more. So the thing is, uh, what I, what I realized with something like this, that if you are working collaboratively

Akmal: 00:16:55
with colleagues who are distributed around the world, you can only go as fast as the slowest person. Now, if that person has got lots of other things that he or she is working on. And they aren't necessarily finishing off a chapter that you asked them to do. I mean, there's not much you can do. I mean, you just have to be patient with them, and just steer

Akmal: 00:17:16
them in the right direction. Hope they'll get it finished. Um, and the other observation I think that I made in those early years as well, that publishing is very time consuming in the sense that if I have an idea today, um, uh, it might take two years before I see that actually published in a physical format. Now...

Akmal: 00:17:36
Of course, looking at 2023, no way could you do that because the world moves so much faster today. You know, it, it, people might have been able to wait two years in the past today. You cannot wait two months or two weeks. You know, the world changes that fast in a, in a blink of an eye. And so publishing, I think, uh, was served a great purpose.

Akmal: 00:17:56
I really enjoyed it. I, I enjoyed working with all the collaborators globally. And, and I felt that, uh, there came a sort of point in time where it's an exhausting process and I just felt, well, I need to stop, okay, because I'm losing hair, I'm getting old, so I need a bit of time for myself. Um, and so as a project manager,

Akmal: 00:18:15
essentially, that's what you are when you're doing, you know, this editing work, it is something that, uh, you know, you make a decision at some point and say, well, Uh, that enough, all right, but I mean, that's not to say I haven't worked at other projects. They even today, for example, at single star, my current employer, we are working on a project uh, for a book of which I've

Akmal: 00:18:33
contributed a couple of chapters myself. Other colleagues will do that as well, but that's slightly different from taking on the project entirely myself.

Hanh: 00:18:42
Mm hmm.

Akmal: 00:18:43
And I think that's the biggest observation, Hanh, that, uh, you know, it's time consuming. It's great, I mean, it's a great reward to see the published book in your hands when it's finally out, but... Like I said, today you cannot afford to do that because the world just moves so fast. You have to do things online. You have to get things out much, much

Akmal: 00:19:00
faster simply because the pace and the rate of change of technology is. I have in my, in my entire ID career, I think the last six months is unprecedented. I have never seen things moving this fast ever before.

Hanh: 00:19:17
And that's, that's the reason why I enjoy these kind of conversations so that we can put it out there. What we know, don't know our own story, our own history, and what we bring to the table so that we all can be a part and shape. The future of technology and AI, how it's going to impact everybody. Okay.

Hanh: 00:19:38
So I think it's so important and thank you. So, you've not only worked with technology hands on and contributed to academic literature, but you also have been a part of various major conference committees. And these events are like a mashup of ideas from industry experts worldwide. So can you share how being part of these committees has shaped your

Hanh: 00:20:02
understanding of the industry and maybe given you some deeper insight?

Akmal: 00:20:08
Yes. So I think, um, one of the nice things about organizing events, workshops, uh, being part of conference, uh, organizations is that you get to see some great proposals for ideas in terms of, you know, the papers that people want to submit. Or, uh, the presentations that want to, they want to do, and you

Akmal: 00:20:30
see, you know, sometimes that they really are stretching the boundaries of technologies to the limit. Um, and they come up with some great ideas, which, you know, you as an individual may never have thought of in a hundred years. And, and so I think that's the great aspect of it. The other thing that I've really enjoyed

Akmal: 00:20:45
is giving opportunities to others to be able to come to these events and present. It's very, very difficult, uh, ultimately, for example, if you have a conference or a workshop that you're running and let's say you can only accept, say, 30 presentations, for example, and then you've got 300 to choose from is a very, very difficult decision. Well, what I've always tried to

Akmal: 00:21:08
do is to balance this with looking particularly at those who are up and coming, young researchers, for example. So for particularly for academic conferences. Try to find, you know, great papers and give these researchers their first opportunity to come to an event and be able to talk about their research. I know how much I struggled

Akmal: 00:21:29
when I was a researcher in terms of getting my papers accepted. And so what I always tried to do was to give others the chance to come and do exactly that. Because, you know, getting your foot into a conference or getting published into a journal, that's a great first step. And it's a way to share your knowledge. So...

Akmal: 00:21:48
Um, one of my, uh, thesis examiners, he, he told me when I was, you know, being tested for my, uh, doctoral research, he, he reminded me, he said, look, it's a bit like you have put down a brick. You walk, you turn the other way, you walk away from the brick. A while later, you look back over your shoulder and you see the brick is now become higher.

Akmal: 00:22:13
There are other people have put their bricks on top of that, you know, it's like a wall that's being built up. And so your contribution to human knowledge may be very small, but it may be helping others to do the research. And that is the part of contributing to the body of human knowledge. And so I've always tried to do my best to help others to get that, you know,

Akmal: 00:22:35
that foot in the door kind of thing. Get them to their first event, give them a chance to talk about what they're doing. So that's been great. I know on the industrial side, again, I've been very fortunate. So I've been involved in a number of events over the years. Uh, a few years back, I was, uh, invited by the government of Malaysia,

Akmal: 00:22:52
for example, to travel out there. As part of, uh, uh, you know, giving them some advice and guidance on big data. And that was wonderful because, uh, uh, it was simply because I was a contributor to a Facebook group, the moderators, um, happened to be based in Malaysia and they knew this, uh, particular event was coming up and they put my name forward to the Malaysian government who very graciously.

Akmal: 00:23:17
Invited me, paid for my travel costs, you know, awesome trip and great opportunity to discuss some of the, uh, topics of the time. I mean, we are quite a bit, uh, you know, it wasn't yesterday as a few years ago, you know, people talk about big data. That was kind of a fresh thing and data science was a fresh thing at the time. Um, and you know, I, I teamed

Akmal: 00:23:36
up with other colleagues who came from all over the world. So there was a gentleman from MIT, for example, who was there. There was a gentleman who works for the Australian government who was there, you know, a panel of us. And we contributed our ideas, discussed them. And all of these were taken on board.

Akmal: 00:23:52
This is the suggestions. Um, and again, it was great, you know, because it's a chance to share your life experience and your knowledge with others. And hopefully. As a result of that, you know, it will help, um, people at large as well.

Hanh: 00:24:06
So are there upcoming events like that with emphasis on AI, data science and so forth?

Akmal: 00:24:13
Yeah. So, um, for, for that type of event, uh, there's nothing immediate. Um, and as you know, COVID has been a bit of a, you know, it's been a bit of a bummer. Let's put it that way. I mean, it's caused a lot of grief, especially if you are in a role. Where you go out often and travel and do

Akmal: 00:24:29
meetups and conferences, which is what I was very privileged to do in the past. Um, so a lot of, uh, conferences, events switch to kind of a virtual mode. So this year, for example, I've done mostly virtual events. Uh, I am very privileged, though, that next week, um, it is, I think, 2nd of August here in London, I will be doing a session for the British Computer

Akmal: 00:24:53
Society at the offices in London, where we will be talking about generative AI. It'll be a hands on lab as well, and that'll be great. I mean, it's one of the few opportunities I've had in the recent past to actually do an in person event, get the chance to talk to people and learn their pain points and do a workshop with them with hands on experience, you know, show them.

Akmal: 00:25:15
Some examples, get them to run the examples and then customize those examples by themselves, you know, try them out with their own data, or, you know, just change the code or whatever they want to do. It's their opportunity to, to, to learn. Um, and so I think those kinds of things would be great to do, but they are. Uh, sometimes few and far between, um, the world is a small place, of

Akmal: 00:25:38
course we can travel anywhere but you know, that's a physical event. That's a physical event. Yes. Uh, but the thing is that I will be there physically in the room, about 50 people will be there physically in the room, but it's also online as well for those that cannot attend. So, you don't have to be in

Akmal: 00:25:54
London to come and attend this. You could be on the other side of the world. You know, it could be midnight or so in Australia. You might be able to join from there. Absolutely fine.

Hanh: 00:26:04
That's awesome. Okay. Would it be all right in the show notes? May I include a link so others can join?

Akmal: 00:26:11
Yes, I can give you the link for that answer. Absolutely fine.

Hanh: 00:26:17
Yeah, that would be awesome. So I think, and I like the word customize that you said, because as you know, anyone that's used ChatGPT, you know, and you see a lot of advice, tips of what various prompts that one can try. And I really believe those are good starters. Okay.

Akmal: 00:26:36
Yes.

Hanh: 00:26:36
But what's most valuable for you is what is it that you're trying to solve? What is that pain point? What solutions are you looking for? And then after you try other people's prompts and then you realize, okay, I got to swing up this, even though it's not the output that I'm looking for. And I understand the logic, the creativity,

Hanh: 00:26:56
the prompts, the way, how you put it into words and so forth, then you start solving your own problems. And that's where customization is key. And I appreciate what you just said that because like when people ask, like, Hey, can you show me how to do this? The first thing I say is what are you looking to solve? Then I can really hone in

Hanh: 00:27:12
to solve your pain points.

Akmal: 00:27:15
Yeah.

Hanh: 00:27:15
As opposed to everybody else's prompts that may, no, it may not be helpful to you.

Akmal: 00:27:20
Yes, absolutely. And I think The way to start, I mean, it's so, it seems a bit daunting. I mean, you, you see this chat GBT. I mean, I ignored it for a couple of months, but there came a point in time where I saw everybody else was using it. I was like, okay, let me try it. And it's been very helpful. I would say, uh, I mean, it, it has

Akmal: 00:27:38
these things called hallucinations. Sometimes it makes things out, which is very strange because it's like almost its knowledge base is so vast. Sometimes it tries to join the dots and it gets the dots wrong. You know what I mean? It comes to assumptions, which you as a person would think, well, how did it arrive at this?

Akmal: 00:27:57
You know, tell me you're thinking, well, why did you come with this suggestion? Um, I did a bit of research on it not so long ago, asking it for some questions. For example, I was interested in fraud detection, you know, how, what does it know about fraud detection? And could it give me some references for, uh, you know, links to videos and articles that might help me with a

Akmal: 00:28:16
particular problem that I was focusing on. And of course, it made some suggestions. Every one of the links that I looked at got no way.

Hanh: 00:28:24
Yeah.

Akmal: 00:28:24
It, it was just something that it made up. And even when I search for the names of the authors for the links that it was providing with it, they'll, they don't exist.

Hanh: 00:28:31
Right.

Akmal: 00:28:32
So.

Hanh: 00:28:32
I, I agree.

Akmal: 00:28:33
Very strange.

Hanh: 00:28:33
And I think that's why they took Bing browser down from ChatGPT because I think at that time it was not good. You know, but I still believe from my own personal experience, although I recognize the hallucinations because first of all, you got to be an expert in your field to recognize that you can't just go in blindly because you wouldn't know what's right or wrong.

Hanh: 00:28:56
And the fact that you are an expert, you'll be able to discern when it's hallucinating. And from my personal experience, it's not enough for me to disregard it. It's been very few, but I recognize it right away. But then what I do instead is I challenge myself. I said, well, could you have asked?

Hanh: 00:29:14
better questions and I think that's key, at least for me. It's like, what questions are you asking? How can you do better and be more concise in, in conveying what you want? So it's been a great learning lesson every day. It's not perfect, but I think I've become more productive, more thought invoking, more thoughtful in everything that I do.

Hanh: 00:29:36
And I've learned not to anybody else's prompts. Ah yes. I feel like I have a target, an objective, a solution that I'm after and I'm going to hone in. It's like a journey. You may not. get it right the first time. And it's a journey.

Hanh: 00:29:54
But what I love about it is once you arrive in that journey, it remembers.

Akmal: 00:30:00
It does. And I think this is going to be one of the important skills going forward, Hanh, this prompt engineering, knowing how to use the technology effectively, asking it exactly what you want, and then giving it enough information in the context so that you can go away. And be able to retrieve and give you answers that are meaningful and

Akmal: 00:30:20
correct, or as correct as possible, given the vast wealth of knowledge that it's kind of trying to draw upon. Um, so this is going to be the future, I think. So anyone looking for a career, I think Prompt Engineering is going to be. The hot, uh, job that everyone wants to do.

Hanh: 00:30:36
I agree. I agree. And another thing I want to add with regards to younger first to 12th grade college kids, even, is that education should not be frowning on chat GPT or AI. Somehow we need to package it in a constructive way and integrate that into the curriculum and not look at it as copy and paste because you're, you're never

Hanh: 00:30:59
going to learn if you copy and paste, it's really, it's a thought process where you start, where you end and what did you do along the way to achieve the solution that you're looking for because along the way, from my experience, it actually invokes you to become a better critical thinker. So, we have to turn that paradigm around and teach the kids to use it intelligently and how to grow themselves, right?

Hanh: 00:31:24
And not frown upon it, because I still think we're, we're in, we're in a day and age that it's still frowned upon and forbidden in some school system.

Akmal: 00:31:34
I think you make a very important point and if I could use the analogy and the example from the distant past. So, in the days when, when I was at high school, Um, at that time, calculators were first allowed into examinations and people thought, you know, these will be things that will, you know, we will forget how to do math, you know, because now we're using a machine to be able to do stuff for us.

Akmal: 00:31:56
But in fact, it was just an aid. It's a tool. It's something that just makes us more efficient. We still need to learn the theory. We need, still need to understand how to do the math. And then the tool just makes, uh, the task, uh, uh, you know, much faster for us, of course, go in

Akmal: 00:32:10
because it can, you can enter your equations and your calculations and return the result much faster, but you know, have to know how to use it. And you, and by doing so you understand the theory behind that as well. And I think chatGTD will be much the same. It will become an intelligent assistant. It will be something that you can use to help you do your job better, or,

Akmal: 00:32:32
you know, help you in terms of the research that you're doing or whatever. It isn't something that's going to replace everything, but as over time it improves and the quality of its answers improve as well, as it learns more. I think it will become something that we make great use of and will really make a big difference in our lives.

Hanh: 00:32:51
I agree. I absolutely. I always tell people, you know, approach it with caution and excitement and focus on the excitement. There's so much to learn and you really have to adapt the paradigm of a lifelong learner. Right? Because you may not get it right the first

Hanh: 00:33:05
time, or even the hundredth time, and it's an ongoing evolution of, of PROMs, of getting more accurate PROMs, let's say.

Akmal: 00:33:15
Yes.

Hanh: 00:33:16
So, that is so important. And, and don't look at it as a crutch, something cheating and so forth. It's not. So that's just my personal take. So, with the evolution of technology, new paradigms emerge that challenge the status quo. One such paradigm shift is in the database technology landscape

Hanh: 00:33:35
is the emergence of NoSQL. So could you provide the compare, compare, comparative, insight into how NoSQL contrasts with traditional database technology in terms of technical challenges, architectural differences, and potential benefits?

Akmal: 00:33:54
Yes. So, I think if we again go back in time a little bit Hanh, so as I said, these things tend to come in waves, you know, roughly every 10 years or so, something new comes along. And so, the NoSQL databases, uh, grew out of an event that I think was held quite some time ago. And it was just used as a hashtag, and

Akmal: 00:34:13
it's something that actually stuck. Um, but it's not a kind of single technology. There are a multitude of different products in this space. So, you have products that can support, like, documents. They are very good for storing JSON documents, for example. Or you have products that are very

Akmal: 00:34:31
good for key value, um, or graph structures, for example, you know, so there are a few major categories. These are designed for different types of problems. But what's happened over time is this, what's called multi model. Um, so a single product can support a number of different capabilities. So it might be able to do, uh, you know,

Akmal: 00:34:53
documents for example, or you might be able to store key value as well. And so they came from a time, I think, where there were some limitations around what relational technology could do. And people. You know, if you're working with say, um, JavaScript, uh, entirely in, in, in, you know, in the stack from the front end to the back end, it kind of makes sense

Akmal: 00:35:21
because now you're dealing with pretty much the same thing all the way through. And as a developer, that makes your life easier rather than you having now to map whatever it is you're trying to model. onto a relational database system. But again, I think what's happened and this is again my observation seeing these different waves of technology come and sometimes go is that the

Akmal: 00:35:42
relational guys don't, are not idle. What they say is they typically tell their customers, okay, wait a little bit, we'll add these capabilities for you. So with the advent of NoSQL some great things happened as well. Distributed processing was something that came to the fore. So many of these products could allow you to, you know, uh, create

Akmal: 00:36:04
a cluster with three, four, five different nodes and then, you know, distribute your data amongst this, uh, or even larger if you want, and then it could be cloud based as well. And that's something that the relational databases didn't generally do in the past. They tend to be very monolithic, you know, they're installed on a single machine, you want to process more

Akmal: 00:36:20
data, get a bigger box, all right? And so the, the distributed processing is something that emerged out of that. And the, the, the development of now what's termed as distributed SQL. So there are a range of vendors now that do the stuff that NoSQL crowd originally kind of came up with, if you like the principles behind it, and now they provide those capabilities with

Akmal: 00:36:44
relational database systems as well. In addition to saying, okay, we can also store JSON documents, you can query that using SQL or, you know, we can store graph structures and now you can query that using a graph based query language as well, in addition to, say, SQL. Um, so in a sense, it's become a bit more, how to say, you know, fuzzy, you know, there's no clear kind of black and white.

Akmal: 00:37:15
And the NoSQL guys, they've not been idle as well. So they've added SQL support. You know, it's become a blurred distinction. And that kind of tends to happen because if you look at what enterprises tend to do, they've committed a lot of, um, their time resources and money to building systems, your

Akmal: 00:37:32
transactional or analytical systems based around relational technology. That is not something they're going to get rid of overnight. Um, and therefore anything that can be kind of augment that, perhaps there's some specific problem that they need the NoSQL product for, or vice versa, you know, maybe there are companies that have gone down the NoSQL route, they've

Akmal: 00:37:55
used that as their primary database, but today they have a need for analytics, for example, and they find that that particular NoSQL product can't support it very well, they go down the SQL route. It's much harder to kind of, uh, you know, draw lines in the sand, as it were, you know, nothing is quite as clear as it seems. Um, but as I said, you know, the

Akmal: 00:38:12
NoSQL crowd that they've some great things that they brought with them. I said the distributed processing, one thing, uh, that I think has really helped and pushed the relational guys again to do something similar. You know, it's a distributed SQL products have taken a little bit of time to develop. It's a complex thing to do.

Akmal: 00:38:32
But now we have a range of these products on the market as well.

Hanh: 00:38:36
So, choosing between SQL or NoSQL, it's not a one size fits all decision. It depends on the unique needs of the project. And from what you're saying, traditional SQL databases bring benefits like transaction reliability and strong performance,

Akmal: 00:38:52
Absolutely.

Hanh: 00:38:53
for complex queries, right?

Akmal: 00:38:54
Yes. Yes. Absolutely, Hanh. You've kind of hit it on, hit the nail on the head, as they say. And so the thing is, I think that You know, if you think about it, things like, uh, optimizers. Because if you look at SQL, it's declarative, in the sense

Akmal: 00:39:09
that you tell the system, I want you to go away and get me this. And then the system figures out the best way to retrieve that. So it will use all of the knowledge it has about the data to figure out the optimal, the lowest cost, if you like, if it's a cost based optimizer, in order to retrieve that data for you. So, you as a developer, You

Akmal: 00:39:26
don't, there's less for you to do. I mean, the system does the hard work for you. In a sense, with some of these NoSQL products, they turned it around its head. So the developer has to think very carefully. He or she now has to decide, okay, what's the best way I need to retrieve this data? Um, And so it's having this kind of

Akmal: 00:39:44
marriage of these two technologies, I think, helps in ultimately, because again, you have the choice now of utilizing the power of SQL, which has been around for a long time, optimizes a very well understood technology. They've been researched to death, you know, over the years, look at all the academic papers that have been published about them.

Akmal: 00:40:08
So something that's very efficient, it will do the job for you. But at the same time, the ability to take advantage of some of these new data formats such as, say, JSON for documents that you might want to store, and then... Be able to, uh, you know, have your database system manage those for you as well and be able to query those for you efficiently as well.

Akmal: 00:40:28
I think that is, uh, something that we see today as well. Again, this kind of marriage of the two worlds, if you like, which, uh, from a developer's perspective is great because now you as a developer, you focus much more on the business problem, have to focus far less on the intricacies of how, oh, how do I retrieve the data? Do I need to do it this way?

Akmal: 00:40:48
Do I need to do it that way? Let the system do the hard work, okay? And again, work with the data types that you want to work with to solve that business problem.

Hanh: 00:40:58
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Very, very interesting. Okay, so we're going to just hone in a little bit on the topic of the aging population.

Akmal: 00:41:07
Yep.

Hanh: 00:41:07
So, as someone with a wealth of experience and expertise in database technology, big data, Your insights have served valuable guidance to those starting in the journey. I guess first, before we go into the topic of aging population, so I want to know, based on your extensive experience, technical advice would you give to novice entering the field

Hanh: 00:41:28
of database technology and big data?

Akmal: 00:41:35
Um, okay. I think, um, it's really, um, you know, learn as much as you can. We are very fortunate today in that there is so much free knowledge, free training available Uh, you've got the biggest encyclopedia in the world at your fingertips. Yes, understanding how to search effectively and finding, uh, that's,

Akmal: 00:42:01
uh, you know, a little bit of an art. You do need to understand how to do that. And as we discussed a little bit earlier on, you know, using technologies such as CheckGPT or BARD, for example, doing that prompt engineering, figuring out what it is that you're after and then asking the right questions. That is something I think that, that will really help in terms of finding

Akmal: 00:42:22
things that you need, um, getting the information that you need. And so, for anyone starting out in the industry today, um, I would draw upon the lessons that I learned with my very first job, which I still look back on today. And I think to myself, well, that, you know, I'm glad I did this and I'm glad I did that. And so I think the key

Akmal: 00:42:40
things that I would say. Um, look at your peers. Don't be afraid to ask questions, things that you don't understand. That's absolutely fine. You know, nobody has got all the answers. Talk to friends, colleagues, peers. If you were starting, you know, your, your work environment, reach out to people. The vast majority of people

Akmal: 00:43:00
are very, very helpful. They will guide you or steer you. Or if they don't know, they will tell you where to go in order to find the information that you need. That's very important. Um, you know, be very proactive, uh, get to know the, the, you know, where to find the sources of information. That's very important as

Akmal: 00:43:19
well within an organization. I, I had to learn that with my very first IT job because I was given a system to learn that I knew absolutely nothing about. It was ancient, it was creaking, and, and, uh, some of the people that had built it had long gone from the company. And therefore, the, the, the knowledge that was contained within

Akmal: 00:43:40
all that is very, very, very small. So I had to seek out those people who had that knowledge and get their time and then learn from them. And the other thing I would say is, again, take us all the training that you can get, whether that's, uh, on the job training or whether it's formal training, or if there's a training that you can find on the internet,

Akmal: 00:43:59
there is, like I said, you know, free code camp, for example, is awesome. Coursera is awesome. EDX is awesome. You know, all of these places. There are some really, really great courses. A lot of them, uh, costs very small amount or they are free. Take the training, learn from them, get

Akmal: 00:44:13
as much hands on as experience as you can. You know, if there's particular programming languages you want to learn, you know, get some code experience and under your fingertips and you'll learn how to do stuff, look at examples. Um, and then there are still great places despite the growth in ChatGPT and BARD and so on. I mean places like Stack Overflow, for

Akmal: 00:44:34
example, where if you think about it, people just go there and they share their knowledge, so they give it away for free. You know, you can go there, you can find it, and you'll find awesome answers from people all over the world that, you know, literally they're giving their time and their knowledge for free. Search these places, you know, find the answers.

Akmal: 00:44:56
Um, and, uh, but again, be careful in terms of using some of those, you know, give credit where credit is due. So for example, when I'd use Stack Overflow to find answers, if I write an article or I write a piece of code, I'd always put a reference in there to say where I got this from. So that's, you know, someone wants to follow the, the, you

Akmal: 00:45:16
know, the, uh, um, the breadcrumbs go back to the original source. They know exactly how to get there. Um, and so I think that's the, those are the key lessons. You know, we just be proactive. You know, be effective and learn as much as you can take all the free training that you can get. And then really, you know, reach

Akmal: 00:45:32
out to friends, colleagues. You know your workmates and don't be afraid to ask questions, you know, and that's the key thing You know be be like that and you will pick up so much Versus if you don't ask anything, I mean you will be in in a very difficult situation then.

Hanh: 00:45:51
Absolutely It's a paradigm shift. Thank you so much You know, it's a paradigm shift. Everything that you're saying, it's really independent of age, whether you are 35 or 55, be a lifelong learner. Yes. That's key because with everything changing daily and continue to change in many years to come,

Hanh: 00:46:09
that's the key is just be a lifelong learner, independent of your age. So, yeah. So artificial intelligence has been a game changer across various sectors and its impact on senior care is significant and growing and by offering potential solutions ranging from predictive healthcare to social engagement tools, AI is emerging as

Hanh: 00:46:36
a powerful ally in addressing the complex needs of the aging population. So can you tell us more what you think as far as how AI is assisting us in better understanding? And addressing the needs of our aging population.

Akmal: 00:46:53
Yeah, I think, Hanh, one of the greatest things that is, is, I've seen and I've read about just recently, I came across a couple of stories about this, is this development of, you know, personalized medicine, as they call it. And then being able to Do greater analysis of demographics down to the level of, uh, uh, you know, you know, the, the kind of, uh, where people live

Akmal: 00:47:15
in the streets around them in terms of, so I'll give you a quick example. So, I live in a part of London where, um, it's Wimbledon and then literally a couple of streets away from me is the, uh, local doctor surgery where it's a practice. There are a number of doctors that, uh, uh, run this practice, but there are other medical services available there as well. Now for them, uh, I'm sure having a lot

Akmal: 00:47:37
of detailed demographic information about the population is something that would be extremely useful because then they know, in terms of what sort of health care would be necessary in terms of targeting particular types of population. So if it's a slightly more aged population, people like myself, for example, we may need more care and attention than if it's a lot

Akmal: 00:47:58
of younger people that live in their younger families with kids. And that's helpful because it makes this almost like a neighborhood thing. You know, you can literally offer services then that are very much customized to the local neighborhood. And that means that money well spent and services better targeted. And that I think is very, very important.

Akmal: 00:48:21
Um, so using artificial intelligence, because we have so much data available today, helping us mine that data, looking for patterns, looking for demographic information. Offering this, uh, uh, kind of, you know, local services. I think this is going to be the key to be able to improve the quality of life. And we are, we live in such

Akmal: 00:48:42
great times that medicine has improved our living standard. Uh, you know, in terms of the aging population, that's great that we live longer. Uh, uh, my mum, uh, was 80 years old, uh, before she passed away a few years ago. And essentially, um, she was sustained by medication for about 20 years of, of, of, you know, the last 20 years of her life.

Akmal: 00:49:05
In, uh, another country where we came from, uh, originally that wouldn't have been possible. Mum wouldn't have received that level of, uh, care and attention or the medication to help her survive for another 20 years. Um, and so I think. This is the kind of thing that we need. Much more targeted approach. Better use of the technology to help us.

Akmal: 00:49:25
Using AI in a very effective way here to be able to look for these interesting patterns that we as human beings may not necessarily see since because The quantity of information that we have to look at is just so vast, you know, it can find those interesting trends and patterns for us and allow us to target the services, um, and for example, healthcare, other services as well in a much more tailored fashion.

Akmal: 00:49:48
And I think that is going to be very, very important going forward.

Hanh: 00:49:51
Mm hmm. I echo that. And what you're describing is precision medicine and how I relate that to me personally is that when I'm sick, when I have any type of health issues, it isn't just that. local problem that I have. It's the entire body. It's what could be attributing

Hanh: 00:50:08
to that is my mental, physical, spiritual, in all regards. So it's very unique to me. It's very precise to my own issues, my own health conditions. And that just underscores the importance of precision medicine. And even my mom who has, you know, in the late dementia, my mother in law is even later.

Hanh: 00:50:30
in her dementia journey. It's so personal, personalized. So, I agree with you. I think with AI and with all the data available, we all have to get more precise in how to use that constructively and to provide precision medicine. So, thank you. Now, data science, with its predictive modeling capabilities and pattern

Hanh: 00:50:55
recognition, This potentially allow us to anticipate the needs of our seniors, even before they arise. And by analyzing trends and patterns like you described, we can effectively plan for a future that caters to this demographic because it's growing so rapidly. So can you offer some insight how you think a data science could help us foresee?

Hanh: 00:51:22
the future requirements of the, um, aging population?

Akmal: 00:51:27
Yes, Hanh, so I think that, uh, if you look at some of the research that's going on today, uh, and I, I, of the last couple of months, uh, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of DeepMind, for example. which is part of Google now. Uh, they've made some very interesting discoveries. So now, you know, this kind of, uh, technology, it goes way beyond what

Akmal: 00:51:51
perhaps its original intent was, you know, it can make these incredible discoveries and that's going to help us with tackling a lot of these, uh, common illnesses and diseases that the aging population suffer from, you know, and so things like Alzheimer's, for example, or, being able to, uh, find a cure for cancer, you know, because these technologies can sift through vast quantities of

Akmal: 00:52:12
data much faster than we ever could. The processing power, the cost of it has come down so much. That we can now, whereas in the past, you know, organizations may have dealt with sort of, uh, you know, tens or hundreds of gigabytes. Now we're talking about sort of petabytes and larger in terms of the quantities of data that we can work at.

Akmal: 00:52:36
And the cost of storage, the cost of processing, everything is so much cheaper. It makes it possible for artificial intelligence, machine learning, um, being able to really... Analyze the vast quantities of data much more effectively, looking for these interesting discoveries that are waiting there to be done. And I'll just draw your attention

Akmal: 00:52:56
to one sort of quick thing. So many years ago, during my time as a researcher. Um, I was very fortunate in that I was invited to go to CERN, uh, which straddles the French and Swiss border. There, you know, they do the particle physics. They smash atoms and find out what matter is made of.

Akmal: 00:53:14
So in those days, they were just thinking about experiments, uh, about how they would store the vast quantities of data for this, uh, Large Hadron Collider, as it's called. And so, uh, you know, over time, um, they, of course, this Higgs boson is being discovered, you know, but each experiment, I was told at the time, generates 40 petabytes of data.

Akmal: 00:53:38
I mean, a mind boggling number. Can't even imagine it. But the thing is, they've only so far just mined a tiny amount of that. So just imagine all the other wonderful discoveries, the scientific discoveries are waiting there to be found, if they could find the means to be able to look at that data. And I think it's very much the same

Akmal: 00:53:54
case with us because fortunately medicine has come a long way. We, we are also fortunate that we live longer care that we receive is great as well. But there are there are certain kind of, uh, no, I don't want to use the word burden, but I think, uh, costs associated with that, because if you look at some, uh, of the, uh, country, say in the Far

Akmal: 00:54:16
East here, I'm thinking particularly thinking of Japan and South Korea, where the population is aging, they are already thinking about, you know, how will This be sustained in the long run because the younger generation are paying for those now as we age and live longer. Fortunately, that's great. You know, we have more time to enjoy ourselves.

Akmal: 00:54:38
How will this be supported? So there's a whole range of both economical, scientific, uh, other things that surround this. Uh, I, I think it's a, it's a very difficult problem to address one that I think governments grapple with at the time. Here in the UK it's the same, you know, we are for very fortunate in terms of

Akmal: 00:54:56
people living longer because of the. The level of medical care and, um, that's great, you know, early retirement may be a solution, but then how to fund, you know, how to fund this. This is a, this is the, the dilemma that we face today. Um, lots of things I think around that to think about. Very difficult to know and to

Akmal: 00:55:14
suggest any particular answers there. You know, I'm constantly thinking about these things. I'm an old guy. It worries me as well, you know. Who's going to pay for my, uh, my support and my pension when I retire?

Hanh: 00:55:30
Yeah, I echo that. I'm the youngest of 10 and I'm seeing it in my older siblings, ranging from 57 to 78. So, that's the age span of our family. It's real, you know, it's real. Wow, thank you so much. I enjoy our conversation. I really appreciate your time. Do you have anything else

Hanh: 00:55:51
that you would like to add?

Akmal: 00:55:55
Oh, no, thank you very much, Hanh. It was a great pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting me. Um, just a chance for me to share some of my thoughts and ideas. Uh, as I said before, I don't have all the answers. I mean, I look at problems from time to time. I use technology, solve stuff,

Akmal: 00:56:09
and, uh, and I share what I learn. Uh, and I publish a lot simply because I think to myself, well, if I'm thinking this, maybe somebody else has got the same problem. Let me write about this. Perhaps it might help them too. So I do enjoy that aspect of it. Um, But i've been very privileged as I said, I've worked with some super people

Akmal: 00:56:29
over the years Very smart people and I kind of stuck to them like look to learn everything that they could teach me and uh, so, you know, I I've I feel that I've Being in a good place and I still feel that I'm in a good place today.

Hanh: 00:56:42
Thank you. Thank you so much to share your wealth of knowledge. Yeah. So as we reach the end of our captivating conversation, I'm sure that all of us have a greater understanding of how technology is transforming care for our aging population. Yeah.

Hanh: 00:56:57
And our expert insights have given us a lot to think about. And we're incredibly grateful for your time and knowledge. And as we continue to see the world evolve. We can only imagine the possibilities and positive changes that AI, data science, big data, and NoSQL technologies could bring to industries

Hanh: 00:57:18
such as healthcare, education, and environment, revolutionizing the way we analyze and interpret information to make informed decisions. And it's clear that the potential for innovation and improvement is immense. The future is undoubtedly promising and remember, understanding these technologies is not just about staying updated. It's about ensuring that we can provide

Hanh: 00:57:43
the best possible care to our aging population, making their lives more comfortable, safe, and fulfilling. Technology is an important enabler of change and a bridge to a future where our elders are not only taken care of, but are also empowered to lead lives of dignity and respect. So we'd like to extend our sincerest thanks to Akhmal.

Hanh: 00:58:13
Thank you for joining us today and sharing his invaluable insights. And of course, a big thing to the audience who's tuning in and we look forward to exploring more interesting topics with you in the future episodes. I am Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast signing off until next time. So let's continue to learn, grow

Hanh: 00:58:33
and embrace the beauty of aging in this ever changing world. Take care.

Akmal: 00:58:43
Bye. Bye.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Hi, welcome. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's exciting LinkedIn live session. The future is now exploring AI automation and innovation in healthcare and business. Our focus today is a force that's reshaping every corner of the world. The powerful, promising and thought-provoking realm of artificial intelligence, no longer confined

Hanh: 00:00:23
in the realm of science fiction. AI has permeated mainstream sectors such as healthcare, education, finance, and transportation, alongside the tech hubs. So let's delve deeper into the transformative role AI plays across these sectors. In healthcare, AI's potential is boundless. It enhances diagnostic accuracy,

Hanh: 00:00:46
offers insightful interpretations of medical images, and paves the way for personalized patient care. Now, you might wonder what might be the goal. Well, health services tailored uniquely for every individual optimizing patient outcomes. Now, AI's influence is equally transformative in education.

Hanh: 00:01:10
It facilitates personalized learning experiences. Adjusting to each student's learning pace and style. AI's tools can also identify struggling students, ensuring that everyone receives the support they need when they need it. Now in the financial sector, AI is like a super fast, highly efficient worker. It can go through lots of data really

Hanh: 00:01:31
fast, which helps us make better decisions and spot any fraud or risk more readily, making things more secure for everyone. Now on the transportation front, AI steers the advancement towards autonomous vehicles promising, safer, more efficient journeys in reducing human error in traffic management. As AI takes the center stage, it also redefines the job market.

Hanh: 00:01:59
While it's true that automation may face out some roles, AI's evolution will undoubtedly spawn new careers in AI ethics, data management, AI system integration. Cybersecurity, AI specific law policy making, and much more. So AI isn't just replacing jobs, it's revolutionizing employment landscape, fostering innovation,

Hanh: 00:02:22
and paving new career pathways. So while discussing AI's potential, we must also consider its risk. It requires a careful balance between excitement and caution. AI's misuse, such as spreading DeepFakes or persuasive falsehood on a large scale can erode societal trust and distort truth. While this risk becomes especially

Hanh: 00:02:48
significant when considering the potential misinformation in medical advice or political discourse, privacy concerns are another potential pitfall. Current AI systems may lack transparency and unintentionally perpetuate societal biases. Leading to discrimination in areas like housing and employment. Well, these issues highlight the need

Hanh: 00:03:11
for rigorous oversight regulation and accountability among AI developers. So today we're excited to delve into these themes and much more with Dr. Douglas. Do the CEO of Automated Clinical Guidelines. And Conor Grennan, Dean of MBA and graduate students at NYU Stern School of Business.

Hanh: 00:03:34
We'll unpack AI's transformative role in healthcare and business. Demystify chat bot technologies like ChatGPT, and explore how these innovations are revolutionizing various sectors. So if you are passionate about AI, automation, business innovation, and the future of healthcare, you're in the right place. So welcome to the show, Doug and Conor.

Hanh: 00:03:59
Great

Conor: 00:03:59
Thank you.

Hanh: 00:03:59
to have you both here with us.

Douglas: 00:04:02
And, good morning from Florida.

Conor: 00:04:04
Yeah, good morning.

Hanh: 00:04:05
How are you, you say from Florida? Where are you from, Doug?

Douglas: 00:04:08
We're in San Augustine.

Hanh: 00:04:10
Okay.

Douglas: 00:04:10
And we have, uh, workers in Orlando as well. Great.

Hanh: 00:04:13
Great. How about you Conor?

Conor: 00:04:15
I'm in, uh, New Canaan, Connecticut, about 40 miles north of New York City where I, uh, commute to.

Hanh: 00:04:21
Awesome. Well thank you. Now, Conor, could you briefly tell us about your professional background and share an unexpected personal interests or hobbies?

Conor: 00:04:30
Sure, yeah. Thanks again for having me and great to see everybody in the chat and everywhere else. It's awesome to see everybody. So yeah, so my background is in a lot of different things, political science, and, uh, and I'm a writer by trade. I have, you know, I've, I've written bunch books and things like that.

Conor: 00:04:43
Uh, but more recently, you know, having gotten my a, uh, my b a from, uh, NYU and before that, uh, living abroad, I have a nonprofit in Nepal. I lived in Katmandu. I lived in Europe for about 10 years. But more recently, uh, having gotten my MBA and writing, uh, I came back to NYU Stern. I became the Dean of Students there.

Conor: 00:05:02
I've been there for about nine years, and more recently than that, my interest in AI is because, uh, my wife is in, uh, AI at McKinsey and Company. And so AI has been a big part of our family. And so at the advent of Generative AI, as you talked, well, not the advent sort of when ChatGPT came out, sort of like the more consumer facing product there,

Conor: 00:05:21
uh, I dove right in and then started, uh, Generative AI at Stern, which is, uh, the, uh, initiative that we have that's gonna, you know, training our, our MBA students and our faculty and everybody else. But, but I have a pretty diverse, uh, background leading up to this.

Hanh: 00:05:36
Thank you. Thank you for being here. All right. Could you do the same, Doug?

Douglas: 00:05:41
Uh, I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I'm still in practice. Uh, but I've been involved in a number of, uh, startups, uh, served on the board of one public company and. Actually in the late 1980s, uh, presented to the FDA, how to develop a software validation as a medical device, then went into practice and now working on things that help doctors.

Hanh: 00:06:03
Thank you so much for joining. We are here to share our ideas and also wanna hear yours and learn from you as well. Okay. Let's talk about AI. Now, I'm gonna pose a question to the audience. When you think of AI, what comes to mind? Is it robots thinking like humans or maybe

Hanh: 00:06:20
some real complex computer algorithms? So for those of you that are joining us, so please put in the comments, your thoughts. What comes to your mind when you think of AI? Well, robots thinking like humans and complex computer algorithms fall under AI, and that's where the heart of the debate lies.

Hanh: 00:06:44
AI in the simplest terms, is about machines. Simulating human intelligence. That means they can learn reason, solve problems, understand languages, and even recognize images or voices much like we do. But here's where things get a little tricky. Some folks argue for a machine to

Hanh: 00:07:02
qualify as AI, it needs to do more than just execute program test. Well, this should exhibit some form of self-awareness or consciousness, much like humans do now. But others believe that any machine learning system that can process information and make decision qualifies as AI and add. To add another layer to this

Hanh: 00:07:30
conversation, there's a whole narrow AI versus general AI debate. When we talk about narrow AI, we're referring to systems designed to carry out specific tasks. Like recognizing your voice or suggesting songs that you might like. Now this is the AI that we're most familiar with. Now, general AI.

Hanh: 00:07:55
On the other hand, it's like the holy grail of artificial intelligence. Imagine a machine that could understand, learn, adapt, and apply knowledge just like a human across a wide range of path. Well, this concept is very controversial and it's not too far from being fully achieved. So AI is a world full of diverse and sometimes conflicting ideas.

Hanh: 00:08:20
So Conor and Doug perhaps will ask Conor, so what is your personal take on the definition of artificial intelligence and do you think machines will ever achieve a level consciousness or self-awareness? And if so, What would that look like?

Conor: 00:08:36
Yeah, I think it's taking a turn that none of us really had anticipated when these large language models came out. So when we think about ChatGPT, that's what we're talking about. A large language model that essentially just predicts text, right? So it kind of predicts just the next word that's coming. But I don't get too caught up

Conor: 00:08:50
in that because this is not something that you have to have any technical background to use. That's the really startling thing to me. So when I think about how, like, so I train companies and I train people on how to use this, and I talk about it like an iPhone almost. You know, you don't have to sort of understand the underlying

Conor: 00:09:08
software of your iPhone. You're just ordering Ubers and Starbucks and booking flights and things like that. So when I think about where AI is going, I'm as surprised as anybody else, mostly because this has gone from something where it just seems to predict text and sort of sound like a human who really, really sounding like a human to the extent that you can't even really tell

Conor: 00:09:25
it apart from when you're speaking to a human or when you're speaking to ChatGPT. And in terms of what you were talking about about. AGI, Artificial General Intelligence, and whether something would ever become truly sentient. I think we are, I think this may be the model that we do it with. In fact, there was a research paper

Conor: 00:09:43
put out by Microsoft researchers, and this isn't, you know, people on Reddit just, you know, uh, speculating, but called sparks of general intelligence, where they realized that the difference between cert, for example, ChatGPT 3.5 and four was so alarming because when you put out, you know, put a problem to 3.5, for example, a slightly older model, and you took this thought experiment

Conor: 00:10:05
around, you had a laptop, a book, nine eggs, a bottle and a nail, and how do you balance them on top of each other? And Chat 3.5 was like, okay, put the nail and then the bottle, and then stack the eggs on top. It just didn't understand the concept of stability and everything else because it's a text-based linguistic model. But all of a sudden the chat, uh,

Conor: 00:10:22
4.0, which has just, you know, blown past 3.5 really, it started to understand the concepts of. Stability and going outside it's linguistic framework. And that's why some of these greatest researchers in the world are talking about sparks of this. So I actually think, and we'll get into this later about just the

Conor: 00:10:43
real power of this, that the large language model is going to be the key to actually becoming something like artificial general intelligence. And I don't think we're the, I mean, we're certainly years away, but I'm not sure that we're much further than that.

Hanh: 00:10:57
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. So what do you think, Doug?

Douglas: 00:11:00
Well, I, I think it's in bits and pieces. And what I mean by that, uh, our work is actually in expert systems where you teach a machine to have a conversation. And in Generative AI, it's really a one-way conversation that can answer the question with very detail, with good details and good references that you can check.

Douglas: 00:11:21
But in a relatively short time, I think if you combine conversational systems with the large language models, You could certainly have the gamers working with Hol Hollywood to make an avatar, to pass a tour test in specific, uh, knowledge domains. They may know how to code it, might know how to beat Mario up at a video game. And of course, the, the worry is

Douglas: 00:11:42
it's, it's teaching, you know, from the water it's drinking. What happens if somebody poisons the water with misinformation, uh, to do that, let's say they break into an API and do good things or bad, I don't think it really knows what it's doing, but it can be trained to do certain things or answer certain things or carry on certain conversations

Douglas: 00:12:04
that can mimic that Turing test.

Hanh: 00:12:07
Mm-hmm. So now, Doug, so as a seasoned professional in healthcare it, in orthopedics, how do you perceive the role of AI in healthcare?

Douglas: 00:12:16
Well, I think it's, it's really two do different things that you're looking for. One is trying to gather information, uh, that's useful and valuable to the patient, to the doctor. And then the other part of it is all of the tasks that are, I call them menial, menial tasks that you know, you really have to do prior authorization.

Douglas: 00:12:37
You have to do clinical documentation. Those are the problems that need to be fixed in medicine because just look at, look at physician burnout. What does that really mean? Is all of the things we have to put up with in the office, in the hospital, um, that don't contribute to patient care. That's where I see the biggest difference. And what I mean by that, let's say it's

Douglas: 00:12:57
annoyance, AI, some pop up in the EMR quality measures that coming from c m s that really don't move the needle. A prior authorization where sometimes third parties infuse chaos that make money off the chaos. Um, you imagine in Florida, we have to deal with every Blue Cross in the country to do prior auth, but we don't know what their policies are.

Douglas: 00:13:22
And then billing and coding the headaches with that. And the EMRs themselves. These are built left over from the 20th century, and you talk to the CIO everything is fine, but they say the doctors need more training. No, we need a, an intelligence system, or at least intelligence built into the EMR.

Hanh: 00:13:39
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Great. Now, can you share about a patient care innovation that was significantly enhanced by the use of AI?

Douglas: 00:13:49
Well, I, I'll take, uh, I'll take, I'll, I'll put it, uh, put it in a very different way. Our American category, orthopedic surgeons used an AI algorithm in 2016 when it parsed out ICD 10, and it noticed the Z codes. So when CMS asked for quality measures, we recommended that you use the Z codes for communication

Douglas: 00:14:10
and understanding the patient. They're not used for billing. Our medical director said, Doug, CMS thinks this is a good idea. Uh, it was developed by CDC and they didn't know it existed. Now, seven years later, social determinants of health and that type of coding is important. So that's something that's

Douglas: 00:14:28
happened, but it took seven years to really get to that point. And in terms of prior authorization, uh, we use a system that's been developed in stealth where the people have been using it are now at six years with no prior auth turndowns and no peer-to-peer reviews. That gets rid of a big headache within medicine.

Hanh: 00:14:50
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So now, in your work towards price transparency, how can AI contribute to the win-win situation for both patients and providers?

Douglas: 00:15:02
Well, if you look at, I'm, I'm an orthopedic surgeon that does knee surgery. No one realizes what the cost of the knee surgery is. So we had, uh, some people ask us, well, could you put together all the prices of drugs? Because we don't know what drugs are $10 a month and what drugs are $400 a month? Plus we have to get 'em approved for

Douglas: 00:15:20
prior auth, or we have to use specific formularies from different payers. Uh, this last year our group won the National PBM Innovation Award because we took PRI pharmacy transparency for all drugs and by class, by price, and also linked consumer information for education and like make clinical links to the manufacturer's website. Uh, and this means for drugs that require

Douglas: 00:15:44
prior auth dynamic questionnaires are provided that writes the clinicians note. At the same time, if you're coming from pharma and there's a new drug coming out, we can quickly edu educate the clinicians on appropriate use criteria cost in a transparent way, typically next business day based on our technology. And this means you can put evidence-based guidelines in the EMRs typically

Douglas: 00:16:10
within the next business day. This, this is a game changer.

Hanh: 00:16:14
Mm-hmm. Now, Can you share your experience in aligning innovative, possibly AI-driven solutions with the FDA regulatory compliance?

Douglas: 00:16:24
Well, I came from a FDA background long ago, and I served as an entrepreneur resident at the fda A, so I think regulations are important, but you also don't wanna put regulations that get in the way. So if you look at AI, I think the best way to think of it is it has to be transparent. It has to be something

Douglas: 00:16:43
that everybody understands. And I think it has to have, if you want to call it a prime directive or mission statement, to really understand what it's doing. And what I mean by that, you have to have a mission statement. Are you doing the right thing for the patient? That's good.

Douglas: 00:16:59
Are you doing it to make more money? No, that's not good. Are you making more money for the insurance of the pbm? That's not good. Do you deny, uh, car as a success metric? That's not right. But I think when you go to AI and regulation, You're going to have to go and have regulation locally through

Douglas: 00:17:15
institutional review boards because many of the people touting it are really self-serving and self-promoting. And you really need somebody to stand back locally and look at an institutional review board if it can affect patient care nationally. If it influences the, the physician's, uh, decision on treatment, I think it needs to go to the FDA.

Douglas: 00:17:40
And then there needs to be groundwork on security that the system can't be built to break into an API can't be built to give misinformation to generative systems. I mean, that's just as bad. It might feed on the information that's on the web. What if it's misinformation? What was the original source? You have to understand

Douglas: 00:17:59
the original source. That's probably the most important thing.

Hanh: 00:18:04
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, how has a combination of medical lasers and AI resulted in improving patient outcomes through your experience?

Douglas: 00:18:15
Well, in orthopedics, not that there are not that many applications of orthopedic, uh, clinical use. And what I mean by that, where we un would had researched in the late 1980s, we understood how to develop software as a medical device. I understood clinical trials running IDE clinical trials, 510(k)s, and one PMA. But that information needs to be

Douglas: 00:18:38
documented where the biggest, uh, difference in medicine and orthopedics with lasers, uh, we actually put markers on implants to track those implants. So all of those ID numbers are laser engraved. Uh, and I, I'll work with that company, um, many years ago. So that's been the biggest impact in orthopedics is the

Douglas: 00:19:02
marking of implants for tracking. And that was kind of my introduction, informatics.

Hanh: 00:19:08
Okay. All right. I wanted to acknowledge a few of the folks in the audience here. Again, we thank you for your time. There is Rene, Lila, Julia, Barbara, thank you so much for joining us and thank you Jordan and Chris Gailey. If you have any questions, please feel free to chime in.

Hanh: 00:19:31
Again, we appreciate your attention and of course let us know what your thoughts on this very important topic that we're discussing. So Doug, so how can AI streamline the alignment of clinical guidelines with the FDA compliance at your company, Automated Clinical Guidelines?

Douglas: 00:19:49
Well, we have a different type of AI that not many people are talking about right now. If you go back to the 1990s, there was lots of excitement and hype about expert systems. The problem was, is they really couldn't be scaled in terms of, of an, except for a niche product. And the cost of updating them

Douglas: 00:20:07
is, was cost prohibitive. Well, those expert systems, we've developed a technology where the algorithms are transparent. They can be read by a physician, they can be read by the fda, and they can be read by a machine. And so with that case, if we're doing diagnostic and treatment work, uh, we, we, we've really built the system

Douglas: 00:20:28
as a FDA medical device for software. It's a medical, as a, uh, device, and validated that software over the last few years. But that's only for diagnosis and treatment that would influence the physician's decision. For prior authorization. That's really about medical policy. It's not really influencing the decision,

Douglas: 00:20:48
uh, other than turning the physician down and denying care for the patient. But it's good also at utilization management for doing the right thing to the patient. You don't want overutilization, you want the right thing, the right medicine, the right tests, the right surgery when it's appropriate. Uh, so what we've done is actually

Douglas: 00:21:06
develop software that's now has 10,000 algorithms and those 10,000 algorithms can be kept up in real time. Our machine learns every day. And what I mean by that, because we can put up an algorithm typically next business day, uh, the cost has gone way down. If we had to send out 10,000 algorithms, uh, to India at, uh, let's say 18 months

Douglas: 00:21:34
to put those together, if we had 10,000 algorithms, an outside group calculated, it would take 3,400 contract programmers. Working five years at a cost of 1.7 billion to write that amount of code. And that's why expert systems really hadn't caught on, uh, that, that's our magic, where we can write zero defect code, sec code sets in seconds. And what I mean by that, we even wrote

Douglas: 00:21:59
a 10 million line algorithm that's updated annually with almost no debugging required because it's completely machine written with almost zero defects. So that's, that's kind of a technology that can really make that information useful, valuable, bring in the transparency, bring in the prices, and really present a rational economic sy uh, system.

Douglas: 00:22:23
Uh, as a knee surgeon, I don't know what the cost of a knee surgery is until somebody gathers that information up.

Hanh: 00:22:30
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's great. Now, feel free both of you, look at the, um, the comments and the feed here, and feel free to see if there are any questions. I feel like we owe it to the audience to answer if it pertains here. Hello everybody.

Conor: 00:22:47
Yeah, I've had a chance to just, uh, watch it scroll. This is a phenomenal audience. I don't know how you gathered all these people here today. They're, they're amazing. They're just like super thoughtful and everybody wants to connect. And, uh, I know Doug is on, uh, LinkedIn. I'm at Conor Grennan at LinkedIn.

Conor: 00:23:02
We have this phenomenal community there, so please come join and follow us because, uh, this is super cool. Uh, but yeah, I think a lot of people are asking, you know, about Generative AI and sort of, uh, you know, and how all this figure is in and everything else. But, uh, but yeah, this audience is awesome.

Hanh: 00:23:18
Yeah, I thank you. I thank you so much for joining. So yeah, feel free to, uh, ask specific questions and, uh, greetings to you all. So I'm gonna go to Conor. I have a couple questions regarding education. Okay. So how do you think Generative AI contributed to the creative

Hanh: 00:23:41
immersive, interactive learning experiences at NYU Stern?

Conor: 00:23:46
Yeah. Well, a few months ago, you know, we didn't know anything about it. Like, like all of you. I mean, except for the great machine learners out there and everything else. I mean, on learning, let me say this, you know, we have sort of our typical education. Like if you all kids out there

Conor: 00:23:57
and you're wondering how they're ever gonna learn to write ever again, for example, that's tricky. And then there's also the learning as it comes, you know, for the sort of, it's like for the corporate side as well. So at in education, at Stern, we sort of sit at the middle, right? So I'm in an MBA program and these are students that aren't kids anymore, right?

Conor: 00:24:18
They are, you know, Fully formed adult in their late twenties, depending on your, not fully formed adult, I guess, but also, you know, people who are about to go out and change the world. And so what, what we determined was, you know, kind of like looking at how this is all happening. I was like, okay, so we need to actually like really level these folks up because

Conor: 00:24:37
I believe, and think of this as a statistical thought experiment, like with a thousand monkeys and a thousand typewriters and a thousand years, and you can write the works of Shakespeare. I believe that if I could train everybody on ChatGPT, and on Generative AI really well, we could actually solve education. I know that sounds huge, but I really believe, uh, we can do that because

Conor: 00:24:56
ChatGPT allows you to do a few different things that are really transformational. So lemme just take, you know, the education of, again, if you guys have kids or anything like that, you'll know that all of a sudden, you know, kids, instead of writing a five page paper on Hamlet can just say, Hey, ChatGPT write me a five page paper on Hamlet and it will do it. And so this is terrifying for teachers

Conor: 00:25:13
of course, and parents too, who want their kids to know how to do this stuff. So basically, like number one, we have to kind of think, okay, so how do we figure out like new proxies for grading? Meaning like, how do we figure out how to test kids on their knowledge? And I think we're actually a really exciting time. Maybe writing a five page paper

Conor: 00:25:30
on Alet is not the best way to teach kids about a Hamlet. Maybe it's, hey, you know, go back and like, you know, learn with ChatGPT and then come into the classroom and discuss. So on that front, on the education front, what's so interesting about that to me is the, just the sheer experiential learning that we can do. So I have a, I have a YouTube channel,

Conor: 00:25:49
which uh, just sort of like does like a lot of fun stuff around ChatGPT and just, you know, uh, a very recent one I was talking about, you know, this specific topic because I have a 14 year old son and he's like, oh, I have all this stuff on, you know, education on, you know, German immigrants coming to New York in 1885. And he is like, it's kind of dry. You know, if you've ever read

Conor: 00:26:07
about that, like, and I see we have some people from Germany. Super interesting, but also the way it's written about it dry. So all of a sudden he created a German immigrant that said, tell me what you're seeing. What are the sights and sounds around you? Where are you going right now? Where are you singing at?

Conor: 00:26:22
And oh, the German immigrant in 1885 going around New York City and you know, parts of the cell. I always thought parts of the cell would be really, really fascinating. So, but not in a textbook. So I turned them into marble characters and I had them just do this epic battle with like the villains of viruses and things like that.

Conor: 00:26:37
So I think in terms of education, that's where we start. We start with just making it more interesting and more experiential. And then, you know, in the NBA side, going in into the corporate side, this is a phenomenal learning tool and we can talk about that more. But ChatGPT helps people learn because humans don't tend to be

Conor: 00:26:53
very good learners because we're too worried about our status to ask dumb questions, but ChatGPT we can do that. So I think it's totally transformational.

Douglas: 00:26:59
Mm-hmm.

Hanh: 00:27:00
So do you see a future where, let's say elementary, starting at elementary, all the way to college and so forth, somehow we got a package. Generative AI, ChatGPT, into their learning experience as early as possible and actually encourage it, but also still encourage critical thinking, creativity. Productivity. Right?

Hanh: 00:27:23
Because I, I see, and I'm sure many of you do that it's still perceived to be cheating. Not necessarily. I see it as your tutor, your coach. It's almost like it's a another world of learning that perhaps you didn't have right next to you. So hopefully in the education system, the sooner, the better that we can integrate

Hanh: 00:27:46
this into the younger generation. To, to use it productively and also continue to cultivate their critical thinking skills and so forth. Because I think one doesn't replace the other. It doesn't have to.

Conor: 00:27:58
Yeah, I, I totally agree. I think that, in fact, this forces us into critical thinking in a way that we've never had to be forced into before. Because if you think about like how education's been the same for, I don't know, 500 years or a thousand years or something, it's like, Hey, here's this question. Go answer this question, you know,

Conor: 00:28:13
memorize the answer, then come back and tell the teacher, and the teacher will give you a grade. That's not a great way to actually learn, right? So we can think about this on the elementary level and you know, sort of young kids and how they learn and instead, you know what I sort of, I have, you know, on my, I do a ton of LinkedIn

Conor: 00:28:29
posts around, um, and again, I'm not con redin, but like, you know, prompts and how to do this, especially with education. But one of the things is, Listen, like if my daughter has to teach, you know, has to learn about the Great Wall of China, why, you know, the professor could, or the teacher rather, could send her back and say, okay, next class you're gonna teach about the Great Wall of China

Conor: 00:28:45
and you're gonna sort of get ChatGPT to come up with this phenomenal lesson plan, but actually a fun lesson plan. And who's better at that than kids to come up with creative ways of thinking. And so, one of the things I do a ton as well as, you know, as well as being, uh, at NYU Stern, I go around and I do a ton of training with large corporations, the C-suites and, and leadership at

Conor: 00:29:04
really, really large corporations. And I find that they get held up in the learning much more than kids because in the same way kids can learn languages because they don't have these inhibitions about if they're gonna sound stupid. I'll tell you what, like C-Suite people and, and even you know, us, leaders on this call and all you folks, uh, who are out there commenting and everything like

Conor: 00:29:23
that, you are leaders and we're leaders. But here's the problem. We get caught up with, you know, again, are we gonna look dumb to people and everything like that? Kids don't care about that. So here's the phenomenal thing about ChatGPT. As I sort of alluded to earlier, humans are terrible learners.

Conor: 00:29:39
We're terrible learners. Because if I was gonna ask somebody a question about what an API is and they start explaining it to me, I'll say, oh, well you know how the internet works. I'll be like, yeah, I know how the internet works. And then they'll say, okay, well imagine that. You know, and then they'll

Conor: 00:29:50
start explaining it. But the fact is, at the end, I'll know a little bit more. But if you gave me Truth Serum, I would've said, actually, I have no idea how the internet works. And they'll say, oh, well it works in protocols. I'll be like, I actually don't know. And at some point they're gonna be

Conor: 00:30:01
like, Conor is an idiot, and they're never gonna talk to Conor Grennan again because they're gonna think this guy asked a lot of dumb questions. Right? So my relationship with that person is more important than learning that information. ChatGPT does not have that judgmental bone in its body.

Conor: 00:30:16
So in fact, what kids do really well is they're like, Actually, I don't get that, actually. I don't get that. And then can you explain it in an analogy? Using ballooned animals and then like, and then make this into a, you know, make the parts of the cell into a circus and teach me that way. But adults don't yet know how to do that.

Conor: 00:30:31
So what I would say when I'm sort of teaching big leadership teams that some of the biggest companies in the world is first, learn how to learn. Remember that you don't have to stop asking questions. This thing will actually teach you. So I think that is actually the future of education, learning how to learn first.

Hanh: 00:30:46
Mm-hmm. You know, I echo that because I think what you, let's say put in is what you put out. You're prompt. Engineering is everything. However, let's say you're not pleased with the outcome is typically because your prompt engineering may not be as precise as it needs to be. So what that does, at least to

Hanh: 00:31:02
me, is that it triggers me to think harder, be more creative. Right. And I don't necessarily think that it's hallucinating. And, and sometimes it does. It triggered me to improve myself and to learn to. Create better prompts. So I think in so many ways,

Hanh: 00:31:20
other than productivity, it's helped me to be more creative. Alright. So can you share how Generative AI has customized educational content for your courses?

Conor: 00:31:34
Yeah, I mean, listen, this is still an open field, you know, I mean, how I think every professor is gonna have to come up with their own ways. I've been helping them, you know, having, you know, imagine it's sort of like during Covid, like imagine if you were always online, like how would've you have developed this course? So I have to go in with professors

Conor: 00:31:48
and think, look, let's ask ChatGPT we're actually ask the very, the very tool how to, how to do that. But I think also to your, to your earlier point about proms, listen, ChatGPT only reflects your experience. And so if you are getting something that you are not satisfied with, the problem is not the tool, the problem. And if you know some American standardized

Conor: 00:32:08
test ChatGPT four, I mean it, ACE is the lsat, which is the, uh, the legal, you know, the, the law exam and the mcat, which is the medical exam. Uh, tests and the, uh, you know, the gmat, which is the business school exam. I know we use a lot of acronyms and so I'm trying to spell out what those things are, but if ChatGPT four can do all that, then it can certainly solve your

Conor: 00:32:31
problem about how to create a performance management system for your small company. So if it's not, this is the big thing. We tend to have get stuck. Our brain gets stuck a little bit, our brain gets stuck because we're so used to Google and asking for something and getting back response. Han, as you just said, ChatGPT is for, is not like that.

Conor: 00:32:50
This reflects your experience. You have to go back in and iterate and iterate and iterate. And whether that's, you know, developing a syllabus for professors or just solving your day-to-day problems or kids working on a paper, continue to have a conversation and treat it like a human.

Hanh: 00:33:03
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's great. So Doug, what do you think?

Douglas: 00:33:07
I find it very interesting, the comment of cheating.

Hanh: 00:33:11
Yeah.

Douglas: 00:33:11
Uh, we've developed algorithms for pretty much every diagnosis in the emergency room. Which means you come in, what should be done in the ambulance, what should be done when they hit the door, what labs to do, what tests to do, when they should be admitted, when they should be discharged. Are they an ops day? Are they a full admission?

Douglas: 00:33:29
Are they, uh, going to be going home? And what should be done? And when I gave those algorithms to some medical students, they said, this is like cheating those exact words. And I think if you go back when I took the uh, SAT I was not allowed to have a calculator that was cheating. And I think as long as we consider it a calculator and a modern tool,

Douglas: 00:33:50
it's not like saying we can't get on an airplane and, and fly. Uh, it's saying that the memorization where most medical doctors have been chosen for the memorization skills are not gonna be as important. It's gonna be important to teach logic, reasoning, and terminology. And by doing that, AI can be, whatever you define as AI can be your peripheral brain.

Douglas: 00:34:15
And as long as you can carry a conversation on that and it knows the next question, not just the next word, that will be the game changer. It has to be cognitive.

Conor: 00:34:25
Can I just, can I just second what Doug is saying? I hope everybody really heard what he was saying there cuz it is so critical, right? So I think what Doug is saying there is. It's even at the professional level, like he's dealing with real professionals here there's this sense of like, well, we're cheating. Why is that?

Conor: 00:34:38
It's because as kids we are taught that if we are getting answers from somewhere else outside of our own brain or asking your teacher that it's cheating, we have this drilled into us in the same way that, you know, we're scared of closets at night or something like that. Right? But I think what Doug is saying here is so, so critical.

Conor: 00:34:54
And again, Doug do on LinkedIn and Conrad on LinkedIn, this is where you go, folks, this is what's so important about what he's just saying. This is as he's saying, almost like a a, a helper brain. And it's not cheating cuz it's just reflecting your own experience. This is where you would go for, you know, if you're sitting

Conor: 00:35:10
around, brainstorm right? With two other people, invite ChatGPT into that conversation. It is the most phenomenal brainstorm. But also what Douglas was saying was around menial tasks. Let this thing do your menial tasks. There is nothing to say that being, you know, a doctor or an educator or a marketer or anything else requires you

Conor: 00:35:26
to keep doing all your menial tasks. Figure out how not to do that. And I, you know, I, again, I teach this whole framework around this kind of thing, but just, you know, there's an efficiency play here where if you just say, Hey, ChatGPT, write this email to my boss and explain why I need six more people working for me. ChatGPT will do that

Conor: 00:35:43
faster than you can think. And it doesn't even know who your boss is or who you are or what you're working for or why you need six people. And it will craft the most beautiful and compelling email. It's surreal. And the more information, ha, as you said, the more information you give it, the better it's gonna go.

Conor: 00:36:00
But I really encourage you to follow Doug's advice. This is not cheating. All this is doing is helping you kind of free up your prefrontal cortex to actually do critical thinking. And then like, let's, let's make subservient those menial tasks, let's outsource them to this tool.

Hanh: 00:36:13
Absolutely. You know, how can you cheat, like for yourself, because I feel like when I do use it, Properly, it's actually improving my overall, not only productivity, but my creativity. You know, I'm starting to think bigger. Like before there's certain tasks that, you know, I, I just don't wanna deal with. It's, it's just either repetitive or

Hanh: 00:36:32
perhaps you don't have the skills. Suddenly you can overcome that and then you end up spending the time to nurture your creativity right. To the back, to the soul of your work of what you're meant to do. So, yeah, I, I think we have to kind of change that paradigm that it's not cheating.

Conor: 00:36:53
Yeah. And esp I love that you say creativity. I think that, you know, you go back to the original question of where do we think AI was going? And I think we thought, you know, the people that will be safe will be like the creatives and everything else. I'm not saying this thing is human or it is creative, but it

Conor: 00:37:06
acts human and it acts creative. And even if you just throw this out for brainstorming and whether it's in, you know, in duds field, in in medicine, or in, in my field in training and everything else, This is a tool by which you can get people thinking. And when I train on, uh, you know, these executive teams, I train on learning development teams.

Conor: 00:37:23
I train on marketing teams. I train, uh, C-suite and executive teams again at some of these largest companies in the world. Here's the thing, ha. And you just mentioned try to be creative first because people get wa locked into their way of working and it's like, well, it has to follow this pattern. This is why kids are so good at it.

Conor: 00:37:39
Kids are like, whatever. Let's just try to sort of, you know, see if you can write a poem about vampire butterflies on the moon. It, they don't care. And that creativity really sparks some incredible prodit.

Hanh: 00:37:47
Mm-hmm. That's great. All right. So how are you both planning to further integrate Generative AI into, let's say, business education or medicine? So, Doug, do you have any ideas?

Douglas: 00:38:00
Well, I think Generative AI is good at writing, uh, letters, appeal letters, as an example. But you have to be careful what happens if the x-ray report on a knee before a knee surgery for prior auth has the same answer for every orthopedic surgeon in the country. That's fraud. So you have to look at your sources.

Douglas: 00:38:19
It has to be individualized to what you're really doing. And again, check the sources. I think that's the biggest problem and the biggest advantage of it. I mean, I, I have a son who's a producer in gaming and they look at it completely different. They look at it is, it's gonna help the coders.

Douglas: 00:38:38
It's gonna, it's really going to have a lot of coders lose their jobs. Um, and they, you know, we talk about APIs and medicine. They've been doing it for decades and, you know, we're kind of new at it. When you give that as an example, you know, many of the people, uh, Talk about APIs as being so important and this, that, and the other.

Douglas: 00:38:57
Um, you know, I was never good at poetry at, um, in medical in, um, undergrad I hated poetry cuz I didn't want to do it. It wasn't my interest. But just before this meeting, I went on ChatGPT and I said, can you write a poem about expert systems and what they can do? And I'll, I'll read it real quick. I think it's important. So it says, um, an expert system,

Douglas: 00:39:20
so smart and wise with knowledge and logic, it never lies. It processes data with speed and grace and provides solutions in every case. Its algorithms are sharp and true. It's reasoning are always sound and new. It's an expert in its field, no doubt a system we cannot do without. So here's to the expert system. So grant a normal of

Douglas: 00:39:42
technology at our command. Now it, it explained an expert system based on papers that were written in the nineties. When you look at that information, but yet it put it, put it into a poem, it put into some, some, uh, a form that everybody could understand and I wouldn't be good at it. That's not my expertise.

Douglas: 00:40:06
Now, the poets and the audience, they may not like that. Uh, it's the same thing as the calculators where the people that were good in school at doing, uh, multiplication tables and the subtraction division in their head, that's no longer important. You go on your phone. So I think we have to look at things of what's important, what's needs

Douglas: 00:40:27
to be learned every day, what's not going to be important in the future. Uh, I look at prior au gonna be gone in two years, less than two years. Uh, it's, it's awful when the, the patient and the physician know they're gonna get approved before the payer ever looks at it. Uh, and that's, that's to me, is the biggest breakthrough in medicine.

Douglas: 00:40:48
It should have gone away long ago, but. Not even just these 300 policies for a payer, it can now apply to all 70,000 diagnostic codes. So you can actually scale that utilization management to a billion office visits, 70,000 different diagnostic codes and treatments, and suddenly the memorization goes away. That's important.

Douglas: 00:41:12
And then you really have to understand, again, the logic why you're doing it and concentrate back on the patient, not, you know, doing a bunch of crazy paperwork to get paid or get the patient treated.

Hanh: 00:41:24
So true. So true. So what's your take, Conor?

Conor: 00:41:28
Yeah, I mean, there's so many directions to take it. I would say that, uh, I guess when I, again, when I do trainings on this, at these, at the, at the larger corporations and everything like that, I really try to steer people away from thinking about Generative AI and ChatGPT as just a tool. Meaning, you know, a lot of folks are just saying, well, you know, we wanna,

Conor: 00:41:49
you know, use this and talk toward data and get, don't get me wrong. Like, that is a needle mover. That is a profound impact on industry, how you can take your own data and, you know, analyze it and talk to it in natural language for yourself internally, for clients and everything else. But what I talk about, and again, on, on on LinkedIn, I do a lot of

Conor: 00:42:07
this around, you know, marketing and learning development and, and HR and everything else, is, this is an a, a chat, I'll say Generative AI and ChatGPT specifically is an augmentation of your own experience and your own intelligence. And that is why it is not a tool. Google is a tool. Google, and you know, and Salesforce is a tool.

Conor: 00:42:27
Salesforce is not an existential threat to humanity though. I mean, this is the power of this thing that we're talking about. And so what I talk about. What I'm dealing with teams is tell me first of all, what are the biggest three things that take up your day and let's see if we can't condense them. So in learning and development,

Conor: 00:42:41
they're building a lot of curriculums or you know, training workshops. And we can condense that from 60% of your day down to 10% of your day. In, in hr it's job descriptions and building those things out. We can take that from 50% of your day down to 15% of your day. All these things allow you to actually use your brain to

Conor: 00:43:00
do really interesting things. Marketing, it's just coming up with ideas. This can condense that from 70% of your day down to 30% of your day. It's an augmentation of everybody's experience. And we just saw it with Doug and the poem. I was reading the chat and kind of like laughing on the chat cuz some people are like, wow, that's really cool.

Conor: 00:43:16
Some people are like, that's a terrible poem. That's the point. People, that is the point. It augments what you are. So for example, if I, I am also not a poet, uh, Doug, but like, but if I was trying to sort of figure something out, like. Write a poem to me,

Conor: 00:43:28
that's a pretty good poem. Or if I'm trying to figure out how to write, you know, how to do a marketing campaign for a health and beauty company in London, which I helped them create, I'm gonna get like two levels deep into ChatGPT and be like, wow, this is a really interesting information. If you are a chief marketing officer, a cmo, and a health and beauty company,

Conor: 00:43:47
you'll be at the level I'm at and be like, this is really elementary rudimentary. This is not interesting because it's reflecting your own experience and not your intelligence, but your intellectual curiosity. So you'll have to go deeper and deeper into ChatGPT to do that. So if you are a poet and you're reading this poem, you're gonna

Conor: 00:44:02
be have, you're gonna say like, now write me an EE Cummings. Now change this. Take out that language book. You are gonna go deeper. Whereas me and Doug are like, yeah, that's a great poem. Check that out. You know, because we are an experienced poet, it reflects you.

Conor: 00:44:15
So don't let somebody else's experience with Chachi B team Generative AI define your experience. You have to find your own use cases, and this is what I train people on all the time.

Hanh: 00:44:23
Yeah, I echo that. For instance, I'm not a poet, but if I were to get the results the same as Doug did, if I didn't like it, like you said, I will go deeper and deeper. I would tell it to provide me different iterations to capture the output that I'm looking for. Okay. So now every time that I do this,

Hanh: 00:44:41
it requires critical thinking and it requires me to think about. What is it, the ideal output that I want? And then I also insert my own insights to it. So, to me, like I said, you know, it, it gives you what you, you provide. You're, it's all in your prompt engineering, the better, concise and so forth.

Hanh: 00:45:05
You're more likely to get better results. Now, could you share how Generative AI could be supported with your mission with the Next Generation Nepal?

Conor: 00:45:16
Yeah. Thanks for asking. I'll, I'll be, I'll be quick on this, but I do, my passion is, uh, Nepal, right? So about 15 years ago I was out in Nepal and I started an organization called Next Generation Nepal, uh, which rescues traffic children and reunites them with their families. Uh, and so that is, that is my passion.

Conor: 00:45:32
By the way. If you ever see a photo of me getting an award from the Dalai Lama folks, that is real. It's as crazy to me as it will be to you, trust me. But that's not a fake, I don't want people to say it's a fake, it's not a fake. But anyway, so we're out in Nepal and we're doing all this, and when

Conor: 00:45:46
Generative AI came out, I started thinking, you know, we have this moment in time, so often it's, you know, the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, the digital divides, you know, dividing us and everything else. And we were saying earlier, uh, today in Han you were talking about this as well, this is the thing. We have an opportunity to really

Conor: 00:46:01
bring people together here. We have an opportunity if, if you come from, you know, are living in a wealthy community and it's, you know, you grew up and maybe were able to have a tutor or something like that. I'm sure that there's a ton of people like me growing up that we couldn't afford a tutor growing up. ChatGPT is a phenomenal tutor.

Conor: 00:46:20
I'm thinking about the actual use cases for people, you know, the, the young kids living in Nepal and everything else, who all of a sudden have at their disposal this incredible tutor both in language, you know, physics, medicine, everything else. So that's one huge thing in Nepal. The other thing in Nepal, and I go out to some of the most remote

Conor: 00:46:37
parts of the world, uh, you know, in the, in the Himalayas. So the. These are places where literally there's no roads. They've never seen a wheel wheeled a vehicle in their entire life. And I walk from village to village finding families of parents. This is next generation De Paul's work

Conor: 00:46:49
so that when I get out there and I've seen, I used to take out a digital camera and I would do this and they wouldn't even know what I was doing. I would show them the back and they would look at their face and they wouldn't recognize their own face because they'd never had a mirror in their life. This is the kind of remote place I'm talking about.

Conor: 00:47:04
But Han, when you think about what this can do, and this is Doug's realm too, I'd love to hear Doug's thoughts on this because now all of a sudden it's not perfect medical advice. But if you can give them access to places where doctors cannot go and say, Hey, these are my symptoms, and forget about when it becomes multimodal. Even right now, these

Conor: 00:47:20
are some of my symptoms. What can I do and have a doctor, and I'm using that term lightly, Doug, cuz Doug has worked very hard to be, get that, get that affiliation. But when you can put this in the hands of people who do not have medical attention, to me, that is a game changer in, uh, Generative AI. It's a real matter of life and

Conor: 00:47:36
death out in a place like Nepal.

Hanh: 00:47:39
Mm-hmm. What's your take?

Douglas: 00:47:40
I'll, I'll comment on that. We actually, uh, have designed the system for other countries as well. Hmm. When the calculator of medicine, you go in and look at all of medicine, it's de-identified data, so therefore it can cross borders. But it also has Google language, uh, Google Translate audit.

Douglas: 00:48:01
So it's in over a hundred different languages. So if you're going into Puerto Rico as an example, everybody's trained in English, but the front desk people may not have those skills and have to translate it into Spanish. If you look at countries in Africa or South America that need intelligence and medicine, we built it for that

Douglas: 00:48:19
specific purpose that it can go into any country and suddenly bring the level of education at the point of care to a much higher level. But yes, it's extremely important.

Hanh: 00:48:32
There's a question here on Medicare. So can we take that? "Curious to know how Medicare audit process might deal with AI?" What is your take Doug?

Douglas: 00:48:43
Well, I was on the leadership of the Florida Orthopedic Society when the CERT audit came to Florida and said 75% of the total needs were not medically necessary and actually presented with the me, the Medicare area contractor, the new protocols. That's actually what pivoted us from diagnosis and treatment to medical necessity criteria because we can use that

Douglas: 00:49:01
same engine for diagnosis and treatment. We can meet medical necessity, CRI criteria for Medicare. So that's what we did first before, prior auth. My friends in plastic surgery, uh, cardiology, were all getting audits and suddenly now those go away. If you're using the system for prior auth, it's the same thing.

Douglas: 00:49:24
Now, the flip side of that, let's say you're a hospital and you don't wanna change anything. We're, we're now working with payers to use those same intelligence tools to do audits. In other words, you're not meeting medical necessity. Fix that, where there's gonna be large clawbacks.

Douglas: 00:49:42
And that's probably going to be the moving force in many hospital is using AI for audits for things that they're not doing right in the first place. Whether it's overcoding, whether it's day-to-day within the hospital, the, the, uh, work in the er, the work in the offices. So it's a two-edged sword. It can be an audit tool or it

Douglas: 00:50:01
can be a compliance tool and tell you immediately if you're meeting compliance or not meeting compliance on both sides of the defense. So yes, it definitely applies to Medicare and we pivoted a number of years ago, specifically for the local coverage determinations of Medicare.

Hanh: 00:50:20
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you for your feedback there. So now, Conor, there is a question here. Maybe you can help. "I'd like to hear how McKinsey are pitching the use of AI to clients in the public sector. Are there grants and reimbursement

Hanh: 00:50:34
opportunities in place yet?" What do you think?

Conor: 00:50:39
That's a good question. I, I don't know. I know my, my wife is at McKinsey. I mean, I know McKinsey does an absolutely phenomenal job in this space. Well, I kinda have to, I mean, I don't have to say it, but my wife is in AI at McKinsey, so I'm going to say it. But I actually also know that they really are doing an amazing job, and I

Conor: 00:50:55
think bringing, uh, bringing it in, I've had a lot of conversations with some of their, uh, their top folks around all this and, and how they're doing that in terms of the actual, like inner workings and what they can, they can do. I, I don't have tons of insight around that. I just know that. When we are, um, there, there's so

Conor: 00:51:10
many different approaches to using Generative AI in different companies. And again, sort of like when I'm, when I'm going out and I have a, a YouTube channel around all this, kind of talking about the different use cases as well as, as the LinkedIn, uh, examples on my LinkedIn and everything else, what I'm finding is that the use cases are going to be so different from everybody.

Conor: 00:51:32
So I think that a lot of companies will expect Generative AI to come in and be layered on top, and then everybody uses it. And I just don't see that. I mean, I, I see how you can use it, but that feels like a very base level. It feels like you're, you know, putting in Salesforce and Salesforce is going to replace this.

Conor: 00:51:48
And so that old software is taken away and everybody just has to learn on this new model. And that, that's just how you do it. That's like a train on the tracks. This does not feel like a train on the tracks. This feels like an all-wheel vehicle where you can go wherever you want and do and explore this entire world,

Conor: 00:52:00
not just a train on the tracks. And. What I mean by that is that it's going to be different for not just every company, but every department in that company and every individual in that company, they're going to be able to use Generative AI as long as they can understand that it goes beyond just, you know, what Microsoft and Google and everything

Conor: 00:52:21
are gonna be putting into your email. I think that's all the table stakes. I think that's all the tools where, you know, in Excel you're gonna be able to write in natural language and in email it's going to, you know, auto-fill all this stuff for you. Those are all great and that's more like a tool, right? So, but that's not what

Conor: 00:52:35
we're really talking about. What we're talking about is this Generative AI and how as it exists right now, and it's even in its early days. In order to fully take advantage of it. And it's sort of like what you were talking about earlier. You have to understand how to have a conversation and make your work more productive.

Conor: 00:52:52
Only you understand what's holding you back in your work. And by the way, these are even things that you think about holding you back. You just naturally go into your work and you spend the first three hours on emails. And you know, and especially I work, I, by the way, I train, uh, in a ton of giant healthcare, some of the biggest healthcare companies in the world.

Conor: 00:53:09
I go in and I train their, uh, their senior leadership on this because healthcare is huge on this. There's so much to do, so much paperwork, so much everything else. And as Doug was sort of sinning, as soon as you start automating, uh, all of these things, it actually frees doctors up and other administrators up to do the work of interacting with people.

Conor: 00:53:27
And the stuff like, think about it, medicine is just a function of people getting hurt and coming to somebody else for help. That's what it boils down to. And when you allow doctors who are fantastic at this, and orthopedic surgeons and everybody else to automate some of those menial tasks, And to actually spend more time on the patient.

Conor: 00:53:44
That's where it really is a game changer. And that's what I would extend across every single function. Think about what you do in your work and ask ChatGPT how it can help. And I think the answers will stun you.

Hanh: 00:53:54
Mm-hmm. You're absolutely right. It's so personalized. You know, I ask myself often, like, what is my pain points? What is it that I'm trying to do? But I struggle, right? Or what is it that I hate doing? So from there I said, well, ideally, how, how do I want this to be?

Hanh: 00:54:10
So then, you know, I, I ask ChatGPT to help me ways. And again, it's a good baseline, but it all depends on how you ask, how descriptive. Again, it's in your prompt engineering. That's, that's everything. And now that there are plugins in ChatGPT, including Wolfram, which is the everything in my book, right?

Hanh: 00:54:31
It's, uh, it's a great plugin if somebody knows. Wolf frame, keep exploring and learning about that. It's a lot of science, technology and engineering. And then there's BabyAGI, AutoGPT, Hugging Face, Python, Pinecone. I mean, all of this, I know it sounds kind of foreign, but if you're

Hanh: 00:54:52
gonna be integral, it's good to have some level of understanding. Maybe you're not gonna be a developer, but it's good to understand because by understanding some of the capabilities it will uncover of what it can do for your inefficiencies. Right?

Conor: 00:55:07
I think that's the key, what you just said, because Wolfram, I have a, I have a YouTube video on using Wolfram because I didn't even know what Wolfram was. And the really cool thing is it just codes. You know, you talk to a natural language and it says, Hey, guess what, Conor? You know, it'll talk to me.

Conor: 00:55:21
Cause I'm like, Hey, I'm Conor Grennan and it'll be like, Hey Conor, great to meet you. You want me to call you Conor, Mr. Grennan? I'm like, oh, call me Conor. It's a very natural sounding thing. But the really cool thing is I went in there and used these ChatGPT plugins, code interpreter.

Conor: 00:55:33
Things like that. And I demo all this stuff in these YouTube videos. But one of the things about Wolfram I was so amazed by is you'll ask it to complete a task and it will say, okay, I'm gonna go, and it will show you the Python code that it's using to do that. And the really cool thing is that there's times where it finishes and

Conor: 00:55:49
then says, Hey Conor, that didn't work. I'm gonna try something else. Here I go. And then it'll try something else. It's talking to you as if it's a coder sitting next to you. So I encourage you, as Hanh is saying, try these things out. Because here's the thing, folks, this is natural language, meaning

Conor: 00:56:05
you do not have to know anything. You just have to go and ask ChatGPT, who's the genius of all geniuses, Hey, I'm looking for an AI tool that will help me do this, or I wanna do this, or how would I even think about this? Talk to it like you're talking, like I'm talking to you right now. And it will help you do all those things.

Hanh: 00:56:22
Mm-hmm. And I wanna share with you a perspective. It can be intimidating. Okay? So let's face it. It's still new for everybody. We're here to share our experiences, our learnings, and our triumphs and a lot of failures along the way. So it's okay when you first try and

Hanh: 00:56:37
you don't get what you are looking for. Keep trying and, and there's a psychological part of it that you have to overcome. At least I did. And once I overcome it, that instead of thinking, well, it's kind of useless cuz it's not giving me what I'm looking for. Well perhaps I need to learn better. Perhaps it's a wrong plugin

Hanh: 00:56:57
that I'm trying to dig information from and so forth. So there's a psychological obstacle that you're gonna have to challenge yourself. Okay. And it's okay if it doesn't work out. Keep trying. You'll find a solution to other means, whether it's it's Wolfram, AutoGPT, BabyAGI, all these terminologies.

Hanh: 00:57:19
You're probably wondering what that is. Well, it's good to get an understanding of that. There's a question for Doug. Hang on here. I had it right here. It keeps moving. I'm losing sight. Okay. I'm so sorry.

Hanh: 00:57:33
Every time there's a new comment, it pushes it. Okay.

Conor: 00:57:35
Well, let me just push to Doug too, sort of, you know, Doug, when you're developing all this, right, I mean, when I think about how ChatGPT works and how it reflects your experience, I mean, Doug, you're building these incredible things, right? So how has sort of something like AI sort of just, you know, augmented your own process, have

Conor: 00:57:51
you found ways of doing that? Like where, you know, you're great at this, but this is actually condensed your amount of time in, in, or workflow or helped your work workflow?

Douglas: 00:58:02
Mm-hmm. Well, it's like, uh, the issues of, uh, both prior auth and care pathways and what is the latest treatment for disease X, Y, and Z. Uh, what things should you be doing or not be doing? It's wasteful. Or prior auth. Um, I, I feel sorry for

Douglas: 00:58:18
the pain clinic guys. You read the, the, uh, policies from the different payers, somewhat. Six weeks of, uh, conservative therapy. Another one's eight weeks, another one's three months, another one 12 months. Uh, knee arthroscopy is a good example. Uh, Florida blue here has over 400 data elements in their policy. Humana only has 46, and

Douglas: 00:58:39
they're all different. And they're not in the E M R, probably never will be, but you have all of these different policies that, you know, Texas Blue doesn't even require prior authorization. But those are specific examples of trying to sort out all of the noise to make it efficient. And that's kind of what we've worked on,

Douglas: 00:58:58
not from a ChatGPT, we're using that now. But from just organizing information, distilling it down, structuring it so the output is structured at a, at a level, you'll, you'll never see in the EMRs. You can actually have predictive analytics, predictive prevent. That's where we're going with the system. But it was, we're now going back to the original diagnosis

Douglas: 00:59:25
and treatment protocols. Now that we've pretty much finished off and taught the machine all the different payer protocols as a conversation, you literally have to rewrite the protocol as a question answer system so that when you, when you finish the conversation, you know, you've met criteria, not met criteria, and it writes you note for you. So it's a, it's a different type

Douglas: 00:59:45
of system that my medical assistant use it, I don't even use it, but if I'm doing treatment than I do use those things in the emergency room. So it just depends on what you're trying to accomplish for coding, uh, a good example, we, we had a, uh, healthcare executive have a, uh, a stent put in his heart and I said, well, we can probably teach you to, um, code your

Douglas: 01:00:11
own procedure in ICD 10 PCS, which is beyond the Post-it notes in the coding department. He was able to code his own procedure with no coding experience, but just answering questions. Um, so if you look at something like CPT codes, they're analog. They just come in a number and there's a few groups.

Douglas: 01:00:30
If you look at ICD, iCD 10 PCS, procedure codes for inpatient, there's real logic behind it.

Hanh: 01:00:37
Okay. Here's another question from Arthur to you, Doug. "What is your, uh, take on the possibility that AGI replacing orthopedic surgeons and when do you think?"

Conor: 01:00:50
It's a hard question to ask Doug. I gotta say.

Douglas: 01:00:52
Well, in terms of diagnosis and treatment and teeing somebody up for surgery, I think there's gonna be a big application because if you fast forward to 2030, there are not enough orthopedic surgeons in the country to do total knee replacements. Not, not counting any trauma or, or sports medicine. Oncology, any of that.

Douglas: 01:01:16
So I think you're gonna see the surgeons in the operating room and maybe not even in the office where they're really trained, use intelligence systems and augment, uh, information where the office can really tee people up for surgery and clear them for surgery, both medically and for policy. Um, but in terms of robotics, there are certain types of robotics in orthopedics.

Douglas: 01:01:41
Um, Some of them are really good, some of them are marketing toys. It just depends.

Hanh: 01:01:46
Mm-hmm. Here's another question from Alan. "So, what do you think, Conor, how valuable is it right now for people to know when they are interacting with AI?" I see many companies trying to make chatbots feel or appear human. Would it be better to clearly discuss when healthcare advice is coming from AI or education?

Conor: 01:02:09
Yeah, that is, that is a great question. I think it really depends, uh, on whether or not, so for example, I was listening to this, uh, the great podcast. I have nothing to do with it, uh, called the Cognitive Revolution. But you can get smart really fast on it, uh, and talking, um, about these, you know, legal, uh, you know, sort

Conor: 01:02:26
of services that will automatically write, you know, letters to, you know, the judge or just sort of, you know, uh, try to dispute a parking ticket or something like that. And if there's regulations, you know, for example, in Europe, which is much more regulated. Saying, we have to know if this is AI or not, that actually

Conor: 01:02:44
hurts the consumer, right? So that hurts the consumer by saying, Hey judge, this is an AI driven thing, when in fact the consumer is really just trying to dispute something that is really well within their rights. So I think in that case, maybe it doesn't have to be, you know, discussed or disclose that this was AI, for example, like I'm on, again, I have no affiliation

Conor: 01:03:01
with these places at all, but you know, American Airlines seems to have a chatbot on their Twitter or something, or at least it sounds like ChatGPT and the responses are instantaneous and fantastic ChatGPT tends to be extremely empathetic. It reflects you, but it tends to be very kind and eem. No, it's, I'm sorry. It tends to behave very

Conor: 01:03:16
kind and empathetically. I like that. I think that's kind of a nice way to be. Now with doctors, it's kind of unbelievable, right? And Doug has probably seen the statistics as well. Patients tend to, in, in non peer review papers tend to prefer, uh, you know, the responses of.

Conor: 01:03:36
Something like a ChatGPT two doctors, they tend to think that ChatGPT may be, may be more empathetic and responsive and everything like that, right? So, so in that case, do you really care whether it's that, I mean it almost is. I'm wondering if in the future it almost sort of, look, we can think of a lot of times in the past where I wanna hear my diagnosis from somebody who looks

Conor: 01:03:57
like me, sounds like me, the same race, creed, Bo, et cetera, et cetera, right? Is this just going to be sort of another form of bias where this, you know, AI doctor is giving you the best advice that they can give you, but people don't wanna hear it? Now, maybe that's just a personal preference and I don't wanna comment on that.

Conor: 01:04:13
But what I will say is that a lot of the best information comes from AI, but people will be e little bit hesitant. So I think it really depends. So for example, if I'm getting, you know, brainstorming ideas on a market, so again, I work with a lot of marketing teams. If I'm helping marketing teams, you know, use this, you know, with prompting, as you said, uh, you know, to get great

Conor: 01:04:29
ideas, I don't think they really care. People do tend to care. If it is something around, um, your life coaching or something like that, because it feels like it doesn't really understand you. But I'll also say this quick example. My daughter's 12 years old. She dyed her hair red the other day, which is, you know, fine, but okay.

Conor: 01:04:47
Anyway, she kind of got red hair dye all over the place, which is also fine. Anyway, I sort of asked Bing, which is powered by ChatGPT four, How do you get red hair dye out of the walls? I know, I know. It told me that. But then at the end I was also like, Hey, you know, I also wanna be a good dad and I'm sort of a little

Conor: 01:05:04
frustrated, but what should I do? And, and Bing is like, great that you're trying to be a good dad. Here's some advice. You know, like your daughter's just trying to be independent. She's stretching. You know, she's, she's 12 years old, she's feeling, you know, all this kind of stuff. But just remember maybe that if you could

Conor: 01:05:15
talk to her about this and talk to her about responsibility, but listen, don't bash that creativity down your daughter. And it was giving me the best parenting advice I'd ever gotten in my life. So anyway, point being, I would not, I mean, I think some things should be labeled as AI. I saw some other things in the chat about like how you cite things.

Conor: 01:05:34
That's a different thing. You know, I think in education, I think citing is important. Very, very critically. If you do something in the chat or with AI, often you won't own that copyright. So guys, be careful out there. If you are writing something for marketing thing, if it is determined to be by AI and you've just written this

Conor: 01:05:47
giant thing, you copyright for Coke. It will not belong to you or to Coke. So be careful around copywriting. It's hard to detect, but still, I guess my point is that use AI responsibly in that way, but understand that people are going to want some of their information from AI and some of their not. But also, I don't think it should be a blanket statement of if it is

Conor: 01:06:09
done by AI, it needs to be disclosed. Cuz I don't think that's always in the best interest even of consumers.

Hanh: 01:06:13
Mm-hmm. I agree with that. And also the quality of your chat bot is contingent on what's under the hood. Right. And under the hood it's everything in the quality of your data, your data sets, how well it's a refined tune, cleaned up and so forth.

Conor: 01:06:30
You know, Doug, Doug, if I could just sort of say, Doug had a great point on this, Doug. If, if, sorry, how? I just wanted to kind of get Doug's take on this because Doug, you were talking about the criticalness of critical nature of like how clean your data is and I was wondering sort of like how you think about that.

Conor: 01:06:42
If you could kind of like enlighten us on the importance of having, you know, good data going into these systems. Cause I think a lot of people would be interested in that.

Douglas: 01:06:50
Well, we go to trusted sources, whether it's CDC, uh, I mean the machine can read the yellow book and infectious disease and give information on all of the different countries that you might be visiting and what time of the year for that specific disease you need to be, uh, concerned about. It might have the testing for certain things.

Douglas: 01:07:09
What's your immunization should be. Uh, so you get all this information, get 'em from trusted sources. That's probably my biggest worry about some of the ChatGPT. I think it's fine up to now where no one's tried to poison the water it's drinking from, but in the future, my worry is the hackers are gonna go out and book this information and

Douglas: 01:07:26
if that information is used, that's why the references are so critical. But yes, that, uh, we look at trusted sources of information, uh, whether it's N I h, whether it's CDC, that's what we really look at. We look at FDA labeling. Those are real information with real sources. Um, so that's where you

Douglas: 01:07:48
really have to start from. But even textbooks have, uh, biases. Uh, everyone has biases in some way, and you have to kind of filter that out. The subject matter expert has to review the algorithm. At least that sort of editing goes into our system.

Hanh: 01:08:05
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, even ChatGPT, right? It's not a hundred percent. It's, it has its weaknesses. So even if you are trying to create your own chatbot, You have to recognize that. So let's take another question here. "All of the content that LLMs are learning from, its original", let

Hanh: 01:08:22
me see, lemme just write that here. "So all the content that our LLMs are learning from its original content that humans have created is an internet gets polluted by predominantly AI generated content. Is there a risk of stagnation due to lack of sufficient and original content?" What do you both think?

Douglas: 01:08:42
I think the best example is, uh, look up Silicon Valley Bank. If it was bought before it went, uh, under, uh, that's a good example. The, it was never taught what happened to the bank. And it'll give a description of, Hey, this is a great bank in Silicon Valley and you should use it and everything else and doesn't exist.

Douglas: 01:09:02
And it's current floor. It's just past floor. So I think timing is everything. The data is everything. Uh, you really have to look where that information came from. And if you notice it came from a site that was dated in 2022, then you understand that output, but you have to understand where it came from and that

Douglas: 01:09:23
the data's not contaminated, biased, or just plain and misinformation.

Conor: 01:09:27
Yeah. I, th, I think that's a great, I think that's a great point, so understanding where it's pulling its data and then, and then this, um, this question, I think it's from Prashant down there is, is a great one. It's sort of almost more of a philosophical, right? Like what is creativity?

Conor: 01:09:41
And, and the internet, by the way is, is huge. So I'm not sure we're gonna run out of that. But I've also seen, and I think that people are see in ChatGPT four, it starts to make, uh, you know, to draw insights from each other. So example, if you know, for example, if you use any, uh,

Conor: 01:09:56
text to image type of software. So I use Mid Journey, for example. And you say, you know, make a, make the Sistine Chapel as if it was balloon animals or something like that. It can, it can do that. And I think that it could generate a, it could have generated that prompt itself. If you said, give me 10 really, really creative prompts, it can draw that.

Conor: 01:10:14
So I'm not sure that creativity, and by the way, I come from a creative background as a, as a, as a writer. But, but I'm also not sure that creativity isn't just drawing unexpected, uh, connections between unparalleled things. And that, to me, if that's the source of creativity, I believe that this can do that as well as a human, I mean, just look at the idea that, you know,

Conor: 01:10:33
if you ask me to come up with 10, uh, new, you know, crazy ideas for, you know, the next Pepsi commercial or something like that, and then you ask ChatGPT to come up with a hundred, it's gonna do that much quicker than me. And I'm not sure that mine will be any better because I'm, I have a human brain, so, I'm not sure that we are going to think about.

Conor: 01:10:53
I don't, I don't know about thinking about it as, as polluting the environment. I think that there's, you know, Doug sort of referred to, there's so much bias on the internet already and so much chunk on the internet already. I'm not sure that ChatGPT can't act, um, creatively and actually expand our creatively.

Hanh: 01:11:08
Mm-hmm. I do too. Here's another comment. "Prompt Engineering is a glorified title. It is just a way to ask questions better so you get better answers." It's true, it's true. But that comes with practice, right? The more you use it and the more that perhaps you don't get the

Hanh: 01:11:25
results that you want, you're gonna become a better engineer. Prompt Engineer, because that's how you would get closer to your output. So now, here is one, how might Generative AI revolutionize healthcare education by simulating rare and complex medical scenarios, allowing students who gain hands-on experience and develop critical thinking skills

Hanh: 01:11:49
in a safe and controlled environment? So what do you think, Doug?

Douglas: 01:11:53
Well, I think if you go back and look at searches, we all had to tailor our search, uh, engines to specific questions and make sure we were looking for the same thing. If I type in fibromyalgia today on Google, it'll come up with probably, you know, 12 15 million. 12 15 million, uh, searches. If I go to ChatGPT, I'll get

Douglas: 01:12:14
a curated answer for that search with the references. In terms of education, I mean, patients and doctors go to Google all the time. Students go to Google all the time. But at the same time, if you look at that information, it needs to be curated. It's not really curated. Um, so I look at it for education. Suddenly you can get the

Douglas: 01:12:40
information you need when you need it, and be a trusted source. That's the key.

Hanh: 01:12:46
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Here's one for Conor. It says that, uh, let's not forget some existing challenges. Access and equity data, privacy and security, bias and fairness, teacher training and support and ethical considerations. We need solutions and

Hanh: 01:13:01
yes, we can find them. So what do you think?

Conor: 01:13:06
I mean,, 100%. I mean, like, uh, I think in, as I'm sort of watching the chat too, you know, it's, um, The ethical considerations are critical here, right? There's gonna be a ton of bias, and as I'm just saying, like references can be fake. This is not a good knowledge tool, right? It's a good learning tool. Like anything that's sort of like

Conor: 01:13:24
almost contemporary knowledge, you can't really trust, which is why we have to ease into this. It doesn't feel like a, you know, black to white sort of thing. We sort of have to, when we are learning and when we are educating ease into it, start using these tools, start integrating them into the classroom or in your work, start integrating them.

Conor: 01:13:43
Where you have to be really, really careful is, are you, uh, you know, putting things in that, it's sort of like this case with the lawyer that just like put in all these, you know, legal citations that actually didn't exist. So you have to be so, or if you say, Hey, gimme a quote that, uh, you know, Jack Welch from, you know, GE said to his people three years ago,

Conor: 01:14:02
and it'll give you something great. What are the chances that he actually said that? I don't know. It's probably about 50 50 now. ChatGPT four hallucinates on a very, very small scale, it's probably about 4% or something like that. So, but still that's 4%. I would not go into a meeting

Conor: 01:14:14
and say, Hey, I'm gonna meet Doug Dew uh, for a coffee. Tell me everything about it. It will tell me everything about Doug will be real and accurate. Probably not, and I'm probably gonna embarrass myself. So I think with ethical considerations, you really have to understand what's real and what's not,

Conor: 01:14:27
and how you use it responsibly. And again, and I agree with some, uh, in the chat too, like it's. With AI, it is always good to, you know, reveal, you know, especially when you're using it and everything else. But I think that if you're just using it in the same way, you might use a brainstorming partner, I, that doesn't feel that critical to me.

Conor: 01:14:44
It does feel critical when you are talking about taking something wholesale and you know, putting it in as your owner or something like that. Those are ethical considerations that I actually have pretty strong opinions on. At the same time, I can't control what people do any more than I can control if they're cheating on their taxes. So that's why I don't get

Conor: 01:14:58
too bogged down in it. These are really individual considerations, but I do think that regulation is critical, so at least the consumer knows when the consumer is protected.

Hanh: 01:15:08
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Very good. We're gonna take one or two last questions as we are near closing. So, for the pharmaceutical industry, what changes do you predict in the coming future of AI? What do you think, Doug?

Douglas: 01:15:22
Oh, I think you're gonna be seeing transparency that the PBMs may or may not like. I think for employers understanding their real true cost, what the rebates are for pharma, whether employees can go to the pharma and get it filled the first time and not wait two to three weeks to get the medication filled. Or say somebody being discharged with

Douglas: 01:15:44
depression from the hospital, what if they can't get their important medications? Because all of the payers have different rules even though the FDA labeling is the same. So I think you really have to look at it from a standpoint of what are you wanting to accomplish and go to that goal. And again, that's why I say any algorithm needs to have a specific mission.

Hanh: 01:16:11
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you.

Douglas: 01:16:12
And for pharma, it's getting the patient treated at the lowest possible cost, but appropriate care. And cuz in case of an employer, it's their money.

Hanh: 01:16:22
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you. So I wanna acknowledge, uh, response from Hannah. "So it's more about how you use the answers. It's never been just about getting the answers, it's understanding them,

Hanh: 01:16:35
analyzing them, and restructuring them." So, absolutely, I echo that. So thank you. And another one, "Working with AI and using it speeds up massively of your work." This is from Pawell, "So, still needed to revise some and keep, keep it safe for patients." Absolutely.

Hanh: 01:16:52
Absolutely. And then also another comment, "In our education system, just a, com, competition between individuals, you know, is our education system just a competition between individuals using ChatGPT should be encouraged. It's not cheating if the youth has this same tool." Absolutely.

Hanh: 01:17:12
It in my mind, it is not cheating. It is. It is your tutor, your personal tutor. It can enhance or bring out the critical thinking and it can help you grow that. So I think it's great. So we're near, at the end, so I'm going to ask Doug and Conor a few more questions. So, Conor, what hurdles do you foresee in the integration of Generative AI in your

Hanh: 01:17:35
areas and how, let's say, how do you think you're gonna prepare to overcome them?

Conor: 01:17:43
Yeah, so I'll just take, uh, well it's funny, I was about to just say education, but it's really a human nature problem. So whether I'm gonna talk about education or whether you're in, uh, banking or healthcare, anything else, cuz I deal with all these, uh, companies all the time. It really is just the limitations of ourselves and

Conor: 01:18:00
I think that limitation comes. In two ways. Like number one is the validation of our entire existence and career. So I find this a lot with faculty members and professors and teachers. They've spent decades teaching something in a certain way. Learning is something in a certain way, and then they're asked

Conor: 01:18:16
to do something differently. That's a very human nature thing to rebel against that. And I really wanna be, uh, sympathetic toward that. And I think you can, you know, mirror that across anybody who's been in management tech for a long time, learning and development, marketing, anything, you know, even CFOs and everything else.

Conor: 01:18:34
They have learned something in a certain way and it's very hard to break out of that. So I think it's unreasonable to think overnight everybody's gonna change their way of doing things. Now I sort of tried, but that's because this is really my life. Now. The other thing I think that

Conor: 01:18:47
kind of runs into obstacles is literally how the brain functions. So again, you know, the brain survey, as I said, sort of like does pattern prediction and automation very, very well, right? So when we see something like Google, right, we know that there's a command response. You ask Google for something, ChatGPT is not a tool.

Conor: 01:19:05
It behaves like a human. And so when I think about the obstacles that people are gonna run into, it's our own brain. This is a lot of the training I do is saying it's not about the tool, it's about how our brain functions when we see this. So just to give a very quick example around this. If we see Google, and we've known Google

Conor: 01:19:19
for, you know, the last billion years that Google has been around, and then we look at ChatGPT, we think, well, this just may must be a better Google, right? Because everything else, like when you see the quickest adaptations of. All these new things, Spotify, Netflix, Dropbox, uh, Instagram, you know what you're upgrading from, right? You know, you're upgrading from,

Conor: 01:19:38
uh, you know, a old filing system to Dropbox or hotels to Airbnb or your CD collection to Spotify. What are we upgrading to with ChatGPT? I don't think anybody really knows. So people think, well, it must be better Google. It's not, Google's better Google. Let Google be Google this. You talk to like a human, but your

Conor: 01:19:53
brain portrays you over and over again. So when you see ChatGPT, you think, I'm gonna ask you for the top 10 places to go in Costa Rica and it'll give you something and you'll walk away, which is foolish. It's sort of like if you go to Google and ask for the top 10 things to see in Costa Rica, it'll give you a 2019 blog and you'll take that as opposed to ChatGPT, which will act like the

Conor: 01:20:10
head of the tourism board and talk to you for as long as you want. So I think our brains really betrays. And so I think that that goes across industry, which is how our brains function with this. We have to get outta the mindset of treating this like a tool and into the mindset of talking to it like a human.

Hanh: 01:20:26
So true. So what is your take, Doug? What hurdles do you foresee in the integration of Generative AI to your area, and what do you think that we can do to prepare, overcome it?

Douglas: 01:20:36
Well, I think the hurdles in medicine is no one wants to change. You talk to hospitals, you talk to doctors, you talk to payers. Uh, change is hard and it has to have real improvement to make that change. And if you don't offer real improvements, there's no reason to use the technology if it doesn't move the needle. I mean, I look, I look at it as the

Douglas: 01:20:57
CMS performance, the quality measures. Uh, I served on our academy, uh, quality measures committee, but it really wasn't moving the needle. Uh, there was a test called a SANE score, which just says, an outcomes that patient reported outcome. Well, in effect, every doctor asked that, every day, are you better, worse of the same, and it may or may not be recorded.

Douglas: 01:21:23
So it has to be something that moves the needle, not a bureaucratic step in a process so somebody can check a box. So that AI needs to be useful, it needs to be valuable, it needs to improve the workforce, not a workflow, not make it worse, and it needs to be curated so we can have it as a trusted source. And going forward, I think this conversation a year from now

Douglas: 01:21:48
will be completely different.

Hanh: 01:21:50
Mm-hmm.

Douglas: 01:21:51
So.

Hanh: 01:21:52
Yeah, things are evolving so fast that next month we'll have a different conversation of its growth, further growth.

Douglas: 01:22:01
Mm-hmm. Agree.

Hanh: 01:22:01
Okay. Same question for both of you as we wrap up. Could you share a key message to our audience about the importance of understanding and embracing Generative AI? Go ahead Doug.

Douglas: 01:22:14
Well, I'd say look at all AI applications, whether it's deep learning, machine learning, Uh, really geogen, uh, Generative AI is important and also expert systems, but understand the difference, understands what their pitfalls are under where, understand where it's going, uh, and who's the trusted source, the developing it. If you have somebody that can really

Douglas: 01:22:36
be trusted, is ethical, putting that information together in a useful manner, that's probably more important than their degrees or where they train from. Uh, that's the key to me as AI, uh, is who is leading that charge in medicine, I think you need to have a co-director of any medical AI program, otherwise you lose track of things. And what I mean by that, um,

Douglas: 01:23:01
imagine you're building an e emr. The computer programmer puts in that, Hey, I'm gonna stop antibiotics 24 hours after surgery. But what happens then if it stops the antibiotics on a septic patient, they die. And if you're not a physician, you don't understand those, you don't get down in the weeds with the details that are important, and

Douglas: 01:23:24
that's what I thinks important. And you can get those details on ChatGPT and again, have the reference material.

Hanh: 01:23:31
Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead Conor.

Conor: 01:23:33
Yeah, I would say the big takeaway for me is just, you know, try this thing out and find it useful. The one thing be careful about, be careful about entering, uh, you know, proprietary data from your company. Don't, don't kill yourself on that because you know, again, it's sort of like, you know, it's like the Samsung example. It's like pouring a Coke into a

Conor: 01:23:50
swimming pool and expecting the swimming pool that tastes like Coke. When you put in a data set, it's not like you put it in as a library and somebody else can pull it out. That's not how ChatGPT works. So I don't want people to get freaked out by that. But do be careful because of Doug knows very well, like third party agreements

Conor: 01:24:06
and HIPAA compliance and everything else. Be careful what you put in there and be careful if hallucinations in that. If you ask it for anything sort of contemporary. If you look up any one of us three and say, what do they do? Or what's their family like? It may not give you correct information, but with everything

Conor: 01:24:19
else, just test it out again. Sort of like on my, you know, LinkedIn, on my YouTube channel, everything, I just have a ton of just examples. Like, Hey, here's how you use it. Here's what you do. Just try this, try this, try this, try this. And that's why some of these things went so, you know, had millions of

Conor: 01:24:33
views and everything else because people are like, wow, well try that. Because it's that creativity. I saw this in the, in the chat as well. It's gonna, if you're more creative with it, it's gonna mirror you. It's linguistic matching. So this does that very well. It will match your who you are and what you do.

Conor: 01:24:47
So if you want to be more creative, be more creative with it, just try it out, find examples, try things out. Just test drive. That's, that's sort of how I think you get the, how you really move the needle.

Hanh: 01:24:58
Thank you. Thank you so much for both of you. And thank you for the audience. And you can follow Doug, Conor on their LinkedIn and the description of their profile is on the event as well. And thank you so much for your attention. As we conclude this insightful link LinkedIn event, let's reflect on the potential of Generative AI in

Hanh: 01:25:18
the transforming field as diverse as healthcare and education. We've listened to these two about AI's crucial role in enhancing patient care and fostering price transparency. We've also seen how AI combined with medical lasers is making tangible difference in patient outcomes. AI's potential in streamlining FDA compliance in healthcare

Hanh: 01:25:42
is also clear in education. AI is reshaping learning experiences, customizing educational content, and leading us to the cusp of major transformation. We've learned about some ideas and integrative AI further into the curriculum of NYU Stern and compelling stories, how Generative AI could potentially help missions like the

Hanh: 01:26:03
next generation Maple, reiterating the social or societal impact of AI. We're also reminded of the promising uncapped potentials of AI from creating immersive personalized learning experience experiences to providing innovative healthcare solutions. Again, let's not overlook the hurdles ahead, technological, regulatory, and ethical, that require careful

Hanh: 01:26:30
consideration and preparation. As we part ways. I like to leave with a key message. Generative AI is not just a trend. It offers unprecedented power and versatility. It, embrace it with excitement and with caution. Understand it and leverage it to the fullest.

Hanh: 01:26:53
So future topics on the LinkedIn Live is the role of Generative AI in sales and marketing. Another upcoming one is overcoming AI challenges. Navigating the psychological obstacles. Also sign up using the link in the comment below to get notified of future topics and dates and also potential opportunities to be future guests or sponsor on the show.

Hanh: 01:27:19
Follow Doug and Conor on the LinkedIn profile and thank you so much for your participation and we look forward to having you join us in the future events.

Hanh Brown: 00:00:00
Hi, I'm Hanh Brown, your host of the Boomer Living Broadcast. Well, I'm here to share an event that I took part in organized by Will Trevor from Tufts University's Gordon Institute. The focus of our discussion was "AI: Is ChatGPT Overhyped and Underrated, or Underhyped and Underestimated?" Well, we explored ChatGPT, a notable AI platform from OpenAI.

Hanh Brown: 00:00:26
Since its launch in late 2022, chatGPT has spurred much discussion among both experts and hobbyists serving as a key point of reference in the considering the future of artificial intelligence and a societal impact. Well, in the debate we ask, is ChatGPT getting more attention and praise than it merits or is its potential underestimated? We had a panel of leaders in the field

Hanh Brown: 00:00:52
offering different perspectives on ChatGPT's abilities and potential. Our goal was to provide a well-rounded exploration of this topic. The debate highlighted various viewpoints of ChatGPT, ranging from skeptics, questioning its capacity to emulate human intelligence to visionaries, imagining a future reshape by it. So join us as we delve into this topic.

Will Trevor: 00:01:20
So, hi everyone, and uh, and welcome. Uh, my name is, uh, Will Trevor. I'm Director of Programs and Operations, uh, here at, uh, Tufts Gordon Institute, uh, at uh, at Tufts University. Welcome to you. Uh, welcome to the today's keynote debate. Uh, the topic is "AI: Is ChatGPT Overhyped and Overrated or

Will Trevor: 00:01:43
Underhyped and Underestimated?" Uh, now the aim of, uh, these debates is to ring together a group of, uh, leading thinkers, uh, both practitioners and academics, to discuss and debate a topical issue. At the intersection of leadership, uh, innovation management and entrepreneurship, our aim is to help nurture and develop the next generation

Will Trevor: 00:02:07
of transformative leaders, uh, with, uh, with pro, who act with profound purpose. And who are informed by the relevant topics of the day. Uh, first, however, I'd like to call upon Kevin Oye, uh, who is the Executive Director of Tufts Gordon Institute, uh, which is also home to the Darby Entrepreneurship Center and the Oster Center for

Will Trevor: 00:02:30
Applied uh, innovation Research. Uh, just call upon Kevin just to say a few words by way of introduction.

Kevin Oye: 00:02:36
Yeah. Thank you, Will. And thank you all to the panelists for joining today and to all the attendees. You know, we're living in a very crazy time now where there's so much going on in the world. You can take about world events, you can talk about technology trends, you can talk about social trends, but the richness of

Kevin Oye: 00:02:49
what's going on is creating the demand for all of us, each of us, to become much, much more conversant in emerging technologies such as ChatGPT, or uh, AI algorithms, machine learning algorithms. Because in many ways technology touches everyone and everything in our everyday life. You know, there are more people in the world today with mobile telephones than

Kevin Oye: 00:03:13
there are people with indoor plumbing. You know, it only took ChatGPT three days to get to a million subscribers when I took Netflix over a year to get to that point. And all of us are interacting every day with AI ML machines because we interact with machines that serve up adds to us, serve up things that we should buy, serve up streaming video that we should look

Kevin Oye: 00:03:29
at based on what we looked at before. These are all applications of machine learning. And so the, the, the latest invention of that, of course is ChatGPT, which is basically a sentence completion machine. It's a way of doing predictive response in terms of, uh, natural language processing. But the more important thing is by doing series like this, we wanna give

Kevin Oye: 00:03:50
everyone an opportunity to hear all facets, all aspects of a particular technology and its impact on society. Our goal is not to give you the answer or to, or, or advocate one way or the other. Our goal is to create an open forum. And so, I wanna thank all of you on the panel today for coming because all of you have very strong opinions and I hope you will share them.

Kevin Oye: 00:04:11
And then for everyone in the audience, I hope you'll listen to all sides with an open mind and challenge our panelists too, with questions. Because, I think through that we'll all become much more educated and we'll all become much more wiser consumers and also wiser citizens of the world. Because as we make choices in the world about what things we wanna support, what

Kevin Oye: 00:04:30
things we wanna buy, what things we wanna regulate, through laws, et cetera, the more we each know about these areas, the better we can be at applying our own uprights and responsibilities as citizens. So, thank you very much for taking the time today. I look forward to the panel.

Will Trevor: 00:04:47
Thanks, Kevin. Uh, so here at the Tufts Gordon Institute (recording in progress), we offer a range of, uh, different programs from, uh, undergraduate through to professional education. Uh, recently we launched a redesigned MST in engineering management that leverages the best of, uh, our award-winning on campus and online

Will Trevor: 00:05:07
programs, uh, and re envisage it it into a single, top tier graduate program that prepares leaders for the new world of work and available 100% online. Uh, not only does the Tufts NSEM, uh, deliver the relevant content and practical skills you need the thrive in an increasingly complex and rapidly changing world, but it also provides you with an exceptional part-time graduate

Will Trevor: 00:05:31
experience that can fit into busy life. Now the LS in, uh, Innovation and Management. It's a full-time, uh, accelerated program designed for people who want to make things happen, who are passionate about science, technology, engineering, or math, but who believe new solutions will solve our toughest challenges, uh, and make this a better world.

Will Trevor: 00:05:51
If you're a recent STEM graduate, uh, who wants to accelerate your career and be at the forefront of developing new ideas, the MSIM, the MS in Innovation Management Program will provide you with the product innovation, uh, marketing, finance, and leadership skills. You need to be a new leader in today's technology driven world. Um, just, uh, a few words on the

Will Trevor: 00:06:10
format of the event in, in a moment. Uh, I'll call up on each of the panelists in turn to make about a three to five minute pitch, either four, uh, or, uh, against the motion under discussion. Uh, then around one o'clock Eastern Time. Uh, we'll start a discussion among the panelists. Uh, we'd also like to include some questions from you, the audience.

Will Trevor: 00:06:33
So, uh, there is the q and a button there. Uh, if you'd like to post your questions there. Um, we may not be able to get to all of them, but we'll certainly incorporate as many as, uh, as we can. Um, so, uh, by now I, firstly, I'd just like to, uh, introduce you to the panelists. I'm not gonna read their, all of

Will Trevor: 00:06:51
them have very full, uh, biographies. Uh, and my colleague Jill will be posting, uh, a pdf f with all their, their b biographies on there. But very briefly, um, uh, welcome Hanh Brown. Uh, now Hanh is a dedicated Age Technologist and AI Innovator, uh, and she's dedicated to transforming the, uh, the aging, uh, experience.

Will Trevor: 00:07:14
Um, we have, uh, for the second time, he joined us for a very first, um, keynote debate for last year, uh, Bhaskar Chakravorti, uh, who is Dean of Global Business, uh, at the Fletcher School here at Tufts. And, uh, Founding Executive, uh, uh, Director of Fletcher's Institute for Business in the global context. We're also very pleased to be joined by,

Will Trevor: 00:07:34
uh, our very own Partha Ghosh, uh, member of faculty for Tufts Gordon Institute. Uh, he's a well-renowned sport Thought Leader, uh, Philosopher, uh, Problem Solver, Futurist and Inspirer in the field of, uh, Business, uh, and, uh, and Technology. Uh, also joining us, a member of, uh, Tufts faculty, uh, James Intriligator. Uh, James is a Professor of the Practice,

Will Trevor: 00:07:57
uh, and Director of Strategic Innovation, uh, in the Department of Mechanical Engineering, uh, in the School of Engineering here at, uh, Tufts University. Uh, and also joining us, we're very fortunate to have, uh, Lori Mazor. Now Lori uh, is an Architect and Visionary with a career in higher education spanning three decades. Uh, she has Planning, Design, and

Will Trevor: 00:08:17
Operations at, at some of New York City's leading academic institute institutions, including New York University and City University of New York. Um, panelists, welcome to, uh, all of you, uh, panelists, if I can r remind you that we have an informed, uh, audience, um, but they're not necessarily a, uh, a specialist, uh, audience in, uh, uh, uh, in AI and ChatGPT.

Will Trevor: 00:08:44
So, uh, if there is anything that you think is a. An injury industry term, or a concept that might be somewhat, uh, difficult to grasp if you're not a specialist, please do, please do, uh, explain it. Um, uh, so first of all, uh, if I could call upon you Hanh uh, Brown, uh, if you could start us with your sort of circle three to five minute,

Will Trevor: 00:09:03
uh, uh, discussion on the topic?

Hanh Brown: 00:09:06
Sure. Thank you. Thank you so much, uh, for asking me to be here. Well, um, well, I think ChatGPT represents significant leap in artificial intelligence. Now, despite some current limitations, it underscores the technological advancements, particularly in the realm of

Hanh Brown: 00:09:21
language, machine language understanding. Well, imagine a world where machines not only understand our language, but also generate text similar to a human. So I think it's, it's an exciting prospect that is closer than what we might think. And thanks to the advancement of ChatGPT. So I also think that it offers a glimpse into the boundless potential of AI in the creative industry, which

Hanh Brown: 00:09:49
means the text generated by this model is very coherent, creative, and surprisingly very human-like. And it also demonstrate the vast capabilities of AI, but also it symbolizes this progressive pursuit of technological advancements. Now, from a business perspective, well, I think it holds the potential to disrupt traditional operations, let's

Hanh Brown: 00:10:17
say applications and customer service. It can provide accurate, fast responses and offer support around the clock significantly enhancing customer experience. So that's a lot of savings, especially nowadays that we're shortage on staff. Now, it's aptitude for generating text suggests transformative impact on content creation.

Hanh Brown: 00:10:46
So, for writers, they could leverage this technology to generate ideas, draft initial versions, or even produce ready to published articles. So I think it's, it's very exciting now. It also has a potential to democratize AI, making it accessible to a much wider audience. So, whether it's automating tasks to increasing productivity, or facilitating

Hanh Brown: 00:11:15
more personalized learning experiences, I think ChatGPT is a beacon of the kind of societal adaptation that's required as we progress technologically. So, as far as the future, I think ChatGPT, not, not as, um, the end product, but more like, um, Foundation Stone for more Advanced AI systems, yet to come. So it, it's exciting and I also

Hanh Brown: 00:11:42
look forward to how the technology underpinning ChatGPT could be employed in other AI applications and paving the way even more innovative tools. So, I'm using it daily, learning, growing, innovating, and every day is a new day because I feel, whatever I thought I knew last week, it's already has changed. So, I'm excited for this technology and much more to come.

Will Trevor: 00:12:16
Thanks for getting us started, Hanh. And uh, next up Bhaskhar, can I invite you to, uh, speak to the, uh, the topic?

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:12:27
Thank you, will thank you, uh, to you and all your colleagues for inviting us for this, uh, very timely conversation. And I'm hoping to learn, uh, a lot from my, uh, fellow panelists or fellow debaters here. And Hanh, thank you for, uh, uh, kicking us off. Uh, though I noted that you did not,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:12:42
uh, vote on, uh, either side of the proposition as to whether ChatGPT is overhyped and overestimated or under hyped or underestimated. So let me sort of put my, uh, uh, stake in the ground, uh, which is, I believe it's overhyped and underestimated. Uh, so that's my way of hedging my answer. And, uh, of course, ChatGPT is gonna have, uh, you know, lots of implications

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:13:07
for, um, you know, for people, for jobs, for institutions, uh, for universities. Uh, like the one we are sitting in right now. It'll have an impact on many occupations, uh, already, uh, just today. Um, uh, McKinsey, uh, uh, Partha and my, uh, former, uh, employers, old, old employers, uh, put out a big report, uh, which says that,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:13:29
uh, uh, thanks to generative AI and other forms of automation, uh, we'll have, uh, an additional $4.4 trillion of, uh, global GDP, uh, in, uh, you know, annually, uh, years to come. And, uh, worker productivity might go up by, uh, 3.3%, a stunning 3.3% growth annually. Uh, just given where we are in terms of work worker productivity,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:13:52
that's, that's quite a leak. Uh, and McKinsey's not alone. Other, you know, uh, red Redoubtable analysts such as Goldman Sachs, uh, has a widely circulated report, uh, which you know, pretty much has the similar things. Uh, maybe the numbers are a little bit different. Uh, they talk about 300 million, uh, jobs affected, uh, 7 trillion,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:14:12
uh, impact on global GDP, you know, $7 trillion, $4.4 trillion. We're talking about trillions. We're talking about very large numbers, big numbers and big names. Um, so, uh, you know, here's, uh, here are kind of, uh, I would say five things for us to keep an eye out for. And, uh, so I'll describe these five things in terms of five gaps,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:14:33
uh, that we need to traverse. Uh, the first gap is what I would call the Yogi Berra gap, uh, allegedly Yogi Berra who said many things on the internet, which, uh, apparently he didn't say. Uh, but, uh, uh, no one else seems to be claiming this, but he said that, uh, it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future. So now we think about making

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:14:50
predictions about what ChatGPT and, uh, generative AI and large language models are gonna do in the future. Uh, Uh, every time we tried to make predictions in the past about the impact of technology, on productivity and the economy, every single time we have been wrong, every single time we have been wrong. Let me say that again.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:15:10
Every single time we have been wrong. So, if I may make a prediction today, and I'm gonna stand with my prediction, it is that whatever we predict right now, we are gonna be wrong. Uh, so let's keep that in one second. Is, uh, what I would call the zero sum gap. The zero sum, uh, nature has to do with the inputs that are required, uh, to,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:15:31
uh, uh, to actually grow and build, uh, future generations of generative AI. And those inputs are talent, uh, which are in short supply. Of course, the Gordon Institute is doing a phenomenal job of turning out great talent, but we need many, many thousands of more garden institutes to turn out the kind of talent that's needed for scalable, uh, uh, applications, uh, or use of AI.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:15:53
Second is data. Uh, of course we are generating tons and tons of data, but the data needs to be accessible. The data needs to be, uh, uh, uh, useful, uh, and and so on, so forth. Third, we need money. Uh, fourth, we need regulations and governance and oversight and ethical reviews and so on.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:16:08
So all these resources are in short supply. So, when generative AI starts sucking up all these resources as they have been in the last few months, it means those resources are taken away from other applications of AI. Such as applications in healthcare, such as applications in crisis response, such as applications in industrial operations.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:16:28
And there's only a limited amount of the stuff to go around. So my second concern is that our obsession with ChatGPT and generative AI is actually gonna harm AI innovation overall because limited resources are gonna be funneled only in one narrow area as opposed to, uh, broader application than potentially societally more meaningful applications of AI.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:16:51
The third, uh, has to do with the trust gap. Uh, we are already seeing a lots and lots of concerns, open letters and so on and so forth by luminaries, uh, jumping up and down, you know, kind of saying, Hey, we gotta stop this thing. We gotta regulate. We gotta call a six month halt. So a lot of concern about, uh, uh,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:17:07
trust in, uh, what we have unleashed. And not only trust in terms of what will these machines do, uh, when they get out of control, but also trust in the information that's being delivered as a response to the prompts that we put in already. We know that these, uh, uh, uh, algorithms, they hallucinate, uh, they can give us information

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:17:26
that is not entirely reliable. And we know that this is gonna improve over time, but there are many aspects of, uh, the generative AI system, uh, that could potentially get much worse. Uh, we just had, um, you know, uh, Donald Trump once again showing up on the front pages of the newspapers yesterday. Just imagine generative AI, what's that's gonna do to the flow of disinformation

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:17:48
that's gonna begin, already began yesterday and go all the way to 2024. I shout out to think of, uh, what our trust gap is, is, uh, how big it's gonna be. The fourth is the competitiveness gap. Just given the amount of computational power that's needed for simple prompts, uh, uh, it means that. The entire investment in ChatGPT

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:18:06
and generative AI is gonna be limited to very few companies. Very few companies will be able to afford the kinds of computation that is needed, uh, to really sort of, uh, you know, keep this going. And of course, all of that is gonna improve. There's gonna be a modified version of Moore's Law that's gonna apply,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:18:25
but still, this is gonna be the domain of a handful of companies, which means that competitiveness in this space is gonna be challenging. And governments are playing a very limited role in terms of advancing, uh, generative AI and AI in, uh, more, more broadly. They're pretty much offloading this to the private sector, which is an area of concern.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:18:45
And the five, uh, the fifth area that I'm concerned about is the environmental gap. The amount of energy that's needed, even for, uh, responding to a simple prompt is enormous. In fact, uh, the computational energy that was needed, uh, for, uh, AI language models, uh, was, uh, in, in January alone, January of this year. Uh, It was equivalent to the

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:19:04
energy use of 175,000 people. So, this is an expensive proposition. Of course, that expense is also gonna go down over time. But what that means is we are gonna adding, we are gonna be adding to the climate, uh, challenges that we currently face and taking energy away from other uses. So, with that, uh, all those caveats,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:19:23
I feel we are underestimating, uh, Generative AI and overhyping it. Thank you.

Will Trevor: 00:19:32
Overhyping and Underestimating. Thanks. Uh, thanks Bhaskar. Uh, Partha can we, uh, come to you?

Partha Ghosh: 00:19:39
Yeah. I wanna first thank, uh, Bhaskar and Hanh for laying out a beautiful backdrop. Indeed, uh, as both of you summarized there, not really much to add, except I think it is indeed underestimated. I do not know about the hype, depending upon which quarters you go. Some places overhype, some places under hype, so I would not take a

Partha Ghosh: 00:20:00
position on hyping, but definitely take a position on estimating. Who knows what is a new future that we are going to build. So what I was thinking of taking a step back a little bit and try to look, put it in the context of last million years of development, and I think it's important that when we are in a points of inflection,

Partha Ghosh: 00:20:21
we understand what is the nature of inflection that we have to deal with. Then are we prepared to deal with the transformational nature of infection? Now, when you take a historian view, firstly you must realize that the evolution of artificial intelligence has happened over time. If you go back to the ancient scriptures, the how the knowledge was structured,

Partha Ghosh: 00:20:46
the strings, the layers, was based on a certain kind of logic, and that is the logic which has edible the evolution of AI as we know today, of course, it is very different. It is transformational in nature. So when you look at AI, it's a both of a product or transformation. As well as evolution, and that's where first is different.

Partha Ghosh: 00:21:08
The second thing we have to keep in mind, you know, from the stone age to computer age, to the digital age, to social media age, to the Trump page, as Bhaskar was talking about, you know, the tools that we have developed has been passive in nature. The tools did what we wanted them to do. But with Generative GPT and I think the term GPT is very important, generative pre-train, pre-train transformer,

Partha Ghosh: 00:21:32
it is a very different kind of transformation where the tool itself would be more intelligent than the human. There's a potential, though I debate that it may not be true, but it is a possibility that this neural network person, when they come together, they will create some kind of intelligent power, which is significantly different from the tools of the past.

Partha Ghosh: 00:21:58
So that's a very new kind of discontinuity, which we have never been shaped before. So that leads to the next question. If this is the new power, which is coming to play, which we have never dealt before, but we have dealt with discontinuities in the past, what are the lessons we could draw on and what are the newness of this fresh power of ChatGPT?

Partha Ghosh: 00:22:21
That leads to the second point that I like to touch on, which Bhaskar you touched on maybe the, you talked about the five points. I had 10 points, but 10 points, trevor would get upset with me, so I'll not talk about it. There are lot of different dimensions we have to think differently now. The first point, often people raise.

Partha Ghosh: 00:22:41
What would AI do to society? Any technological advance has generally helped society to move forward. Uh, AI would definitely, Alhanni, were talking about helping productivity, customer service, and all the current business model would fundamentally get more efficient. Or they'll get transformed. Like I don't think the healthcare

Partha Ghosh: 00:23:02
in the future would be the kind of healthcare we know today. We will call it human care, where AI would be tracking individuals to keep us healthy as opposed to delivering medicine. But there, that would be the kind of transformation that we be, we should be prepared for in any industry that we are talking about. And the third kind, which I, I

Partha Ghosh: 00:23:24
absolutely agree with both Hanh and Bhaskar, that the future is unknown. What AI, ChatGPT would open up. We don't know as much as we didn't know when, uh, James Wat realized the power of steam, lot of different things happened. But this one is no longer the power of steam, which is passing. It is intelligent power. It is significant possibility.

Partha Ghosh: 00:23:53
It reminds me of Tego Tego must will realize. I will not say it in Bengali, but Tego wrote in one place within the finite, you are the in finite. And I think within the finite definitions of the algorithm, AI could open up the in finite possibilities or in another place Tego rose within the limits. You are unlimited shi maji

Partha Ghosh: 00:24:15
to within limited unlimited. So clearly it is difficult to estimate, so I cannot say whether it's underestimated overestimate, but clearly it would be a new chapter that will open up, which I see very positively. I'm connected with four AI companies, which I sit on the board and I want to share with you what's going on. One is in the water space, the other

Partha Ghosh: 00:24:40
one is in the agricultural space. The third is in management consulting space, and the fourth one is in blood and analytical space. Similar to what Theranos was trying to do. Now what I see there is the application of AI, which is solving very difficult problems. Water management of the world, evolution of the pr, soil productivity given

Partha Ghosh: 00:25:07
the soil is becoming quite tired and fatigued in different parts of the world. And then we are talking about distributed blood, blood analytics, which is similar to, except this company has a product. In fact, they have got hundred installed base. If any one of you want to invest, this company is ready to take off. And the other one is a company called

Partha Ghosh: 00:25:27
Quantum Logic, which is in management consulting, but they're not looking at management consulting as Bhaskarcar. And I have known in the world and McKinsey company, you know, we used to spend six months doing diagnostics when I started, which was way before Bhaskarcar. And these days we do it in six days. But in the world of AI, we will do it in, uh, six seconds now.

Partha Ghosh: 00:25:50
So the world is changing. That would be the transformational nature. Now, the final point I want to make, which fortunately both of you have not touched, so you have given me some space, but that's where I feel the biggest challenge. I think if you look at the development of the human beings that we have basically helped the development of the left brain, which is logical, which

Partha Ghosh: 00:26:19
is knows how to process languages, and that's what AI would do for us. So the relative value of the left brain would become slightly challenge. What is the right brain, which is imaginative, which is intuitive, which is creative will perhaps become more important, and that's the only way we should be able to harness the power of AI as well as control the

Partha Ghosh: 00:26:47
power of AI when it comes to ethics, fake news, misinformation, et cetera. So that leads to a very important point that I would like to make for all of us involved in education. That if we continue to educate our students, whether they are in the kindergarten or in the grade 12, or in universities or in higher education, we have to focus not necessarily the

Partha Ghosh: 00:27:11
logical development of their, uh, left brain, but also develop the creative side of the right brain, which means education system, the corporate development of, uh, individuals. The training systems have to be fundamentally different, and I don't know what it should be looked like, look like, but I could see that there's a need for more the Albert Einstein re

Partha Ghosh: 00:27:35
tego type of dialogue where one is a scientist, which is a mathematical in nature, but philosopher for iste, go, who, as you know, is a Nobel Prize, one of the first Nobel Prize winners who. Artistic, imaginative and we have to learn how to blend the two in the education system. So we are indeed at a point of infection. We have to think new.

Partha Ghosh: 00:28:00
I will end by one point for particularly youngsters in the webinar, that we would be definitely faced with significant mode, number of choices. So that's point number one. But these choices, the life cycle of the choices will become shorter cause the world will be changing rapidly under the influence of AI. So to be able to make quick bets,

Partha Ghosh: 00:28:22
which is wider in perspective, would be very important. And then I think I would like to quote and end with a very state, a statement of Nelson Mandela who made, did make, may your choices reflect your hopes, not your fear. You have to be concerned about the fear as Boker was pointing out about Trump. But we have to learn how to deal

Partha Ghosh: 00:28:49
with 'em and put the guardrails, so such possibilities are limited while the possibilities of limitlessness of human development continues. With that, I'd like to thank you very much, you pasa.

Will Trevor: 00:29:05
Um, folks, just a reminder, if you do have questions, I can see some of the questions going into the q and a. Uh, please do push them there. Um, and, uh, if I can now ask James, uh, would you like to, uh, address the topic is, uh, ChatGPT, overhyped and Overrated or Under Hyped and Underestimated?

James Intriligator: 00:29:25
Sure. Thanks very much. Will. Um, and thanks to TGI for organizing this great event and fellow panelists, thanks for coming along. Uh, yeah, so I guess, uh, from my perspective, ChatGPT really is the most powerful tool ever created. Um, if you, if, uh, a thousand years

James Intriligator: 00:29:38
from now, if we're still around, we look back on human history, I think you'll see in December, 2022 there was this sudden acceleration in every aspect of human flourishing, whether it's creativity, productivity, innovation, medicine, um, you know, there'll be this incredible non-linear, uh, we're in this period of non-linear acceleration right now where, uh, partly, uh,

James Intriligator: 00:29:59
Because ChatGPT is so powerful and other LLMs and other approaches for machine learning and AI, but I, I would contend in particular ChatGPT, um, it really is helping feedback onto itself. So programmers are making better next gen versions of ChatGPT by using ChatGPT. So everything is kind of suddenly non-linearly accelerating. Uh, if you haven't been following this

James Intriligator: 00:30:21
kind of on the web and YouTube and the articles, I mean, most of the stuff that. Appears in newspapers, et cetera, is, you know, weeks and weeks out of date. Usually that wouldn't matter, but the speed at which things are happening now is, is really, uh, astounding. Um, there's a lot of issues, of course, uh, I, I should say, of course. So in my, my perspective, I think it's,

James Intriligator: 00:30:40
it's, uh, chichi BT is underestimated. And in terms of hyped, I'm not sure. I think, I think it's both over-hyped and under-hyped. Uh, I guess I'd sort of rather it be a little less hyped so that it doesn't pull in so many, uh, other charlatans, mis users, uh, noise generators, et cetera. But overall, that's my assessment, uh, in terms of.

James Intriligator: 00:31:03
Uh, sort of philosophical issues. There's tons of them. There's been a lot of written about the things about whether ChatGPT has any kind of understanding and intelligence. Is it just parroting back, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Um, I don't wanna dig into any of those issues, but I'll, I'll say from my perspective, I, I kind of take a

James Intriligator: 00:31:16
against shiny and approach and I think that it's generating symbols that are useful for humans to do stuff with. So whether you wanna call that intelligence or not, it's definitely helping facilitate further exploration. So, I, I personally would say that yes, it is intelligent. Also, for those who haven't played around with version four versus 3.5, it's

James Intriligator: 00:31:36
shocking how much better version four is. So, I. Makes me very excited to see where things will go over the next six months or a year. Um, of course, those are the philosophical issues. Then there's the ethical issues, which are, you know, huge. Uh, in terms of the, the first question

James Intriligator: 00:31:48
here in our q and a, in fact was about cheating and what about kids in school and all the, the whole model of having kids go home and write essays and turning them in, that just won't work anymore. There's no way to catch what is generated by a human or. What is generated by ChatGPT if you're interested in this, there are tons of, um, recipes that you could find online.

James Intriligator: 00:32:09
You get ChatGPT to write it. Then you go through Grammarly and then you go through. There's a couple of ways you can kind of play with the text and there's no way any algorithm can ever tell whether it was generated by a human or a machine. So that's not so good. Uh, I think it's gonna really fundamentally change the way we

James Intriligator: 00:32:23
have to educate people in subtopics like English for instance. I think it's personally, it's gonna be less about the final deliverable and more about documenting your journey through, uh, the thought process and your journey, uh, by using ChatGPT to explore these interesting, uh, spaces. And that will be kind of more about what maybe English is like.

James Intriligator: 00:32:42
It'll have to be a whole new, whole new areas of education will be required and frantically it's in some sense, right? I mean, starting next, uh, semester in the fall, there will be. Tons of essays and student projects that already happen, but that are done purely by ChatGPT. So we need to change the way we think about education, how we think about,

James Intriligator: 00:33:01
uh, training people to use this tool. Again, from my perspective, it's the most powerful tool ever created. It can do anything. It can impact any field. Uh, it can of course. Also another ethical in I issue is around disinformation, like was raised earlier. Uh, job displacement. There's lots of things here.

James Intriligator: 00:33:16
Um, longer term impacts, power consumption. Copyright issues is another one that we haven't explicitly touched on yet today, all of the training was done on a great deal of material that was, uh, copyrighted, for instance, and know is it right that it was used? Is it right that it was ingested or digested?

James Intriligator: 00:33:33
From my perspective, personally, I think that it was a crime. Uh, and it would be nice to find some way to kind of. Create, I dunno if it's reparations, that's probably too loaded of a term in this context, but there needs to be some way to make that right. But at the same time, I don't think we should throw out the tool that

James Intriligator: 00:33:48
was built by this, uh, well, I'll say crime, uh, cuz the tool is so powerful as force for good as well. Uh, other issues are around sort of bare work and pay income inequality, right? So the uh, if this is gonna become another tech tool that serves to increase, further increased income inequality. It could very well do that. People who know how to use it and can

James Intriligator: 00:34:09
use it effectively within business domains will become much wealthier and others will be lacked aside. So that's another issue that we need to think about. And of course, there's huge impacts and issues from a social justice perspective. Uh, but so those are sort of the concerns in, from my perspective, I think that it's a fabulous tool that can really help

James Intriligator: 00:34:26
anyone do anything they want to do better. So if you're a surgeon, it can make you a better surgeon. If you're a musician, it'll make you a better musician. If you're an engineer, you'll be a better engineer. Anything you want to do, it can help you do better within reason. Right?

James Intriligator: 00:34:40
I mean, if you wanna be, uh, bodybuilder, it can't, well actually it can't, it can give you wonderful, uh, workout plans and health plans, eating plans. Um, uh, In terms of, I'll just say a few words on kind of how I think of ChatGPT. You know, you, you often hear people complaining about how it hallucinates and it just makes things up, et cetera. Uh, from my perspective, that's

James Intriligator: 00:34:58
part of the beauty of it in a sense. Uh, and as long as you understand that you can actually leverage that and use it to your own advantage. So from a, so as a professor sort of of human factors engineering, part of what my field looks at is how people, uh, what mental model they have as they interact with a piece of technology. And I think that open AI has done sort

James Intriligator: 00:35:16
of a disservice to the world by putting a search, like front end interface on it. As, as users, we tend to see a search box and think, oh, search engine, and we just go about doing search. And it's really nothing like a search engine. Uh, it's, it's unfortunate that they did that because it really misled many people, uh, who then.

James Intriligator: 00:35:36
Judged it inaccurately as, oh, it's not a very good search engine. Well, it never was. It, the, the way I think of it is it's really sort of a, um, I have my own little mental model, but it's a, a, uh, text generating glider, a transversal glider that lets you fly through trillion dimensional spaces and explore those spaces.

James Intriligator: 00:35:54
Sort of a what if engine, how might we possibly explore kind of engine? And the key to using it well is really, uh, understanding that, that it's not a search engine, it's a glider and putting it at the right point in space, aiming it in the right direction, and having to glide. Uh, and so you can do all kinds of stuff if you think of it that way.

James Intriligator: 00:36:12
Um, uh, again, just a couple of. Uh, points and examples. So one thing, if you have used it, uh, you probably already have bumped into the idea that it's much better to ask for multiple answers. So give me seven ways I might design a new product for this toy company. I designed a bunch of products in the last couple months using ChatGPT.

James Intriligator: 00:36:32
Um, can you identify ways that this products could be sold to our customers? You know, tell me about our customers chat sheet. BT knows all about, let's say, the particular customers of a company. It'll tell you about the customers. You can say, give me seven clusters of customers. Name each cluster.

James Intriligator: 00:36:47
Give me a description of each customer group. It'll do that. You can then say, okay, I wanna sell my products to some of those customer groups. I wanna hold an event somewhere in Boston. Tell me where I should hold the event, what the event should be like, what day of the week, and what time of day the event should happen

James Intriligator: 00:37:02
to maximally target those people. Now it'll do it. It'll do it. It might be making it up, but if you look at it and if you consider, you know, you never would just copy and paste. You sort of take what it says and you, you consider it anyway. So, uh, That, that's just one example. I, I wanna just mention a few of the

James Intriligator: 00:37:15
other ways that I've used it, um, myself over the last month or so. So I've been doing things like designing behavior change, interventions to reduce cancer rates. It's fabulous at doing that. Uh, I've been designing a new course for kids to teach them cybersecurity. Done fabulous work at that. First outlining what kids nowadays

James Intriligator: 00:37:32
know about cybersecurity, what they don't know, where the gaps are. Um, I've been doing new methods for literary criticism, uh, doing some fun work around customer segmentation. Back to the thing about tell me about eight kinds of students I might have in my class. It'll do it. And if I can give a four question

James Intriligator: 00:37:48
questionnaire to my students to classify them into different segments, what would those four questions be? It'll do it. Um, I had it the other night, write a better ending for the final season of Game of Thrones or right this final season of Game of Thrones. Much, much better than the one that actually came out.

James Intriligator: 00:38:05
Wouldn't, it's not very difficult to get much better than that one anyway, but that, anyway, uh, engineering, it's been using, I've been using it to design machine learning algorithms, to write code, to do the machine learning things, to take, um, data and process it in novel ways. Harvesting energy from oceans, been using it for lots of kind of, Um, green

James Intriligator: 00:38:23
economy issues and also for DEIJ issues. So I've been, uh, giving it my courses and saying, you know, how might I incorporate DEIJ themes into this class? From an educator perspective, it's been fabulous in helping me identify opportunities for bringing DEIJ issues, uh, diversity, equity, inclusion, justice issues into classes, uh, songs, poetry, you know, it's been doing

James Intriligator: 00:38:42
kind of everything you can imagine. Again, from my perspective, it can really help anyone do anything better as long as they understand it's not a search engine and they can kind of fly it in the right ways.

Will Trevor: 00:38:52
Alright. Thank you, James. Lori, if I can call upon you, um, is this ChatGPT overhyped and overrated, or underhyped and underestimated?

Lori Mazor: 00:39:03
Absolutely. Um, again, thank you for inviting me and I come here to join this esteemed panel as the street artist among you, I have for 36 weeks been using generative AI, starting with, um, mid journey I, uh, application for image generation. And so by the time ChatGPT came out, I had really been experimenting in a very vernacular way about what this technology

Lori Mazor: 00:39:27
means for how we engage, uh, humans and machines, uh, without a computer science background, but really thinking about it from the perspective of how do we balance. Chaos and control. And I think this is potentially the most brilliant aspect of generative systems as opposed to discriminative systems, which are the kinds of technologies that we've been accustomed to and that we

Lori Mazor: 00:39:56
actually feel quite comfortable with. And that, um, allow us to kind of proceed with digital tailorism, which is kind of the underlying mechanism of automation and moving things from human processes to machine processes. And I think we've seen what some of the downfalls are there. But what I wonder and why I think the technology is underrated is if we

Lori Mazor: 00:40:23
could actually embrace chaos as humans. I think that we are going to see that this is going to be one of the greatest challenges of our time. It both excites us and scares us to the very core. I wanna use that analogy that you talked about when you said hallucination and this idea that we need to be able to harness something or control it or

Lori Mazor: 00:40:50
bring it into a set of social norms. I think that this is actually one of the fundamental problems with our misunderstanding of creativity and the way that we train children and ourselves In many ways, I think children are born with infinite amounts of creativity. And I'll use an example in my own life of going over to a neighbor's house at the age of five, and I told a story, I don't

Lori Mazor: 00:41:13
even know what the story was, but I came home and the neighbor told my parents about the story and accused me of lying. Now at five, I didn't know that what I was telling wasn't true. My boundary between imagination and reality didn't quite exist yet. And I think this is where we found the very first samples of generative AI. And as I've watched it evolve over this

Lori Mazor: 00:41:42
very short period of time, I've seen us try to put it in a box to try and get it to perform for us to behave the way that we ask children to behave. And so I think we're in a very important moment where it hasn't quite jumped the shark yet, and we have an opportunity to have a really critical conversation about how we embrace chaos. And there's a really

Lori Mazor: 00:42:08
interesting factor that's called temperature in any AI system. It's chaos when you're talking about, um, image generation and it's temperature when you're talking about text generation. And it has to do with how much. Randomness we allow in the prediction of the next word. So for example, a low temperature setting, if you say I love, will always generate

Lori Mazor: 00:42:35
the word you because you is the most popular word that's used after I love. But if you allow that temperature setting to be relaxed, if you dial it up to one, it might say, I love chocolate, or I love animals, or I love my mother, or I love books. Right? And that is where I think we have the potential for innovation.

Lori Mazor: 00:42:56
And I think that's actually one of the most important parts about how we can use this for business. So yes, there are certainly ways that we can improve productivity, but I would challenge us to think about how we actually invite chaos and how we use that in a way to solve some of our biggest problems.

Will Trevor: 00:43:17
Thanks, Lori. And, uh, thanks to all the panelists for that, uh, for that first round of some very full and, uh, interesting answers. Um, thanks also to those of you in the audience who've been posting your your q and a, uh, questions. Uh, I see that, uh, James is also typed an answer into to some of the questions and panelists, if you see a question

Will Trevor: 00:43:36
in there that's directed to you, do feel free to to, to type in an answer. Um, the first question, uh, I'm, I'm going to pose. Uh, James has touched upon this, um, uh, BAS path. Uh, Ville touched upon it as, as well in, in terms of, uh, education. Um, in terms of talk about hallucination, I was at a, a webinar a few weeks

Will Trevor: 00:43:59
ago with the librarians from the Tish Library, uh, and they, they said that they, they have students coming in, uh, now, um, with, uh, references that have been suggested by, uh, ChatGPT, that are themselves entirely, entirely fictitious. Um, there's, there's questions on education that come in from, uh, Laura Lee, and this will address your question, hopefully, uh, and Stacy as well.

Will Trevor: 00:44:22
Uh, it's also a question, uh, that since the pool is there, uh, I decided to, to generate with the help of, uh, of ChatGPT. So the, the this, uh, first ChatGPT, what would we ask you? And, and here's, here's what, here's what it gave us. So, uh, in what ways can ChatGPT transform the educational landscape and other potential benefits and challenges?

Will Trevor: 00:44:44
How might ChatGPT impact the role of teachers and students, uh, for example, and are there any concerns regarding the overreliance on ChatGPT in the educational settings? Um, Bhaskar, do you wanna tackle that one first?

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:45:01
Yeah, sure. I, I think, um, uh, you know, ChatGPT, um, is a tool, uh, like so many tools that we've had in the past. And, uh, it is an advanced tool as you know, uh, many of my colleagues here, uh, have pointed out. It allows us to, uh, you know, extend our ability to, uh, write our ex our, our ability to, uh, create visuals.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:45:24
Our ability to, uh, imagine, uh, extends it way beyond, uh, you know, what our current capabilities are. So in terms of our impact on education, uh, it definitely, uh, will enhance our. Ability to educate, provided we, uh, on the faculties of universities like Tufts and all the other universities, and not just the universities, the school systems and so on, are prepared,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:45:46
uh, to embrace this tool and, uh, and then figure out how do we now enable our students to become better learners and to be able to produce, uh, uh, better outcomes, uh, of that, uh, of that education in combination of the tool. So I know that there's some questions there which, uh, have to do with, uh, might this stifle creativity, might this lead to greater cheating?

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:46:12
Uh, might this, uh, you know, give students, uh, uh, uh, access to false information? The answer is yes to all of that. And it's up to us as educators to anticipate, uh, those traps and then, uh, guide our students and ourselves, uh, to skip over them. So I think, uh, the bar has been raised and, uh, it's up to us to

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:46:33
try and, uh, and, and, and meet it. Uh, it's not gonna be easy, uh, because the technology keeps moving faster than our ability to comprehend it. Uh, but I do believe that over the long haul, uh, it is gonna be, uh, uh, an accessory to education. It's gonna be an accessory to knowledge. Um, I do wanna make one comment on the importance of ChatGPT and generative AI

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:46:57
relative to AI Overall, I feel that in many of our, uh, observations, uh, we have been combining those observations. Uh, and I do feel it's important to make some distinction between generative AI and other applications of AI. And then when we talk about what are some of the biggest problems that we want to solve for. Uh, of course, uh, we would like to

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:47:17
solve for problems of, you know, getting knowledge, uh, you know, giving, uh, uh, uh, people, uh, the ability to, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, fix things or, or, or write an essay and so on. Uh, but we already have several tools, uh, that allow us, uh, uh, to do that or allow us to educate children to do that. If I think about problems to be solved, um, one problem that rises

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:47:43
to the very top, uh, in terms of societal needs, uh, to me is the application of AI and healthcare. And, uh, we've just come out of three years of, of pandemic, uh, where, uh, we did not even have the tool to tell whether somebody had covid or not. You put in a test and it took three weeks at the heart of the, uh, of the pandemic, three weeks for a result to come back.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:48:05
There are multiple AI teams that tried to come up with an algorithm that could catch covid from the sandor cough or something like that. Almost all of them, not almost all of them failed. So I really feel one of the biggest problems to solve for us as a society is to save lives and to improve lives. And my worry is generative AI may be

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 00:48:26
sucking up a lot more resources away from those kinds of applications. So that's also an aspect of education that we need to think about.

Will Trevor: 00:48:37
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Bhaskar. Um, Hanh, same question to you. How, how might we be able to use, um, Generative AI as a, as a tool? How might it transform the educational landscape? What are, what are perhaps some of the, uh, the challenges that you see?

Partha Ghosh: 00:48:53
Well, could I add point to the respond to Bhaskar's very thoughtful points that I feel the whole relationship between faculty and students have to change because the world of AI and the world of generative AI. Would provide us with the information. The information exchange will happen because of this tool, but the, both the faculty and the student has to come to

Partha Ghosh: 00:49:21
the learning space, both as students. The role of the faculty would become a guiding, the process of managing the knowledge transfer as opposed to coming as I, I know it all, you have to learn from me. Because that would definitely compromise the, all the value that, uh, generative AI could offer. Whereas the role of the faculty in the

Partha Ghosh: 00:49:48
future would be to unlock what I think. Uh, Lori, you were talking about the ability to deal with chaos ness, imagination, and that is a very different kind of, I would say, teaching process. If we use the word teaching, maybe the word is not teaching. The word is unlocking that inner creativity. So that's a very different kind of guiding

Partha Ghosh: 00:50:15
system, if I may use the word, as opposed to professorial system where the professor comes with all the knowledge that he knows and he imparts it on student. That era is over. So, if we really want to do justice to the power of AI, justice to humanity, uh, we have to engage these two powers with a very different mindset.

Will Trevor: 00:50:44
Thank you, Partha. Hanh, if I could bring you in at this point, um, what, what do you, what do you see as perhaps the, the uses of this tool and perhaps the challenges as well?

Hanh Brown: 00:50:53
Sure. I'd like to echo all that's been said in terms of education and the impact of Jet c p t. One more thing in terms of. Let's say elementary, middle school, high school and college. I think it's crucial to have an actual curriculum, a class chat, T p T for elementary, whatever that entail, but

Hanh Brown: 00:51:12
present it in such a way that kids at that age use it responsibly and not perceive it to be something frowned upon. Because here's the thing, as much as I like to say social media is bad for kids, and I did when my kids were younger, they're 26, 23, and 21, but that was my exact sentiment. Social media was bad for elementary, middle, and high school kids.

Hanh Brown: 00:51:39
Well, that didn't go well, you know, during those years. So I see chichi PT is gonna be integral to our home life, you know, workplace. So I think it's best to package it in such a way that elementary kids can use it wisely. And teachers perhaps even encourage them to learn and grow and not look at it as something frowned upon.

Hanh Brown: 00:52:03
So that's one point that I wanted to add. Now, as far as education for older adults, well, I come from the aging sector, so I always wanna add a spin, how that would impact the aging population. Well, this transformed education as we mentioned, by providing personalized learning experiences tailored to a student or an older adult pace and learning style, right?

Hanh Brown: 00:52:28
It also enables 24 7 learning offer immediate responses, and this is very, in my mind, relevant for lifelong learners among the aging population as they are encouraged to continue their education. As we age. So that is one of the key components for thriving in life. Now, I understand there's issues over-reliance on AI could lead to

Hanh Brown: 00:52:58
decrease in HU human interaction and perhaps even risk of widening the digital divide among those who are not tech savvy for some older adults. And I think we should shift towards facilitating learning and using AI as a tool, but not necessarily the primary mode for instruction. Now for older adults who may have access to human facilitators that can help

Hanh Brown: 00:53:28
them make, who would need access to human facilitators to help them make the most out of AI educational tools. So I think that's really important. The proper training. View it as something integral to your life and innovate. And not something to be frowned upon. Now, recognizing there's guardrails, of course, with everything mentioned here.

Hanh Brown: 00:53:51
So that's the two points I wanted to add.

Will Trevor: 00:53:54
Okay, thanks, Hanh. Um, Lori, if I can come to you, um, again, uh, you, your, your background is in, in education. Uh, how do you see ChatGPT being, being utilized within the educational landscape?

Lori Mazor: 00:54:07
Yeah, the, the aspect of it that I found find most interesting is, um, the possibility for inquiry-based learning, right? So being able to self-direct your educational path, um, and having access to a breadth of knowledge. Um, and I think it really plays to the polymath. So I think that we have up until this

Lori Mazor: 00:54:25
point, really, um, as much as we talk about interdisciplinarity in education, we still are very disciplinary. And, and the truth of the matter is as you move from education into the work environment, to, we are extraordinarily focused and specialized. And so all the talk about range in education actually doesn't get applied. And so what I really love thinking about

Lori Mazor: 00:54:49
is what if every person were their own? CEO? What if every person could kind of span the breath from science to math, to art? Um, and instead of having to be experts in one area, if we can draw upon this compendium of human knowledge, um, it doesn't mean that there will not be a place for experts, but I think there's more of a place for people who might

Lori Mazor: 00:55:14
be able to cross and span those gaps, which I think is really what starts to help in solving those problems, right? Connecting things that have been, uh, disconnected.

Will Trevor: 00:55:30
Thank you. Uh, thank you, Lori. Um, I'm gonna take a, a slightly different direction now. James. I'll come to you and then, then I'll come to you. Um, Couple of questions have appeared in the, in the q and a so far, uh, talking about the, the potential for, uh,

Will Trevor: 00:55:44
disruption in terms of the, uh, employment market and, uh, and, and job losses. Um, so the question I have is, is how might chap GPT affect the, the, the job market and employment, uh, opportunities in different sectors? Uh, will it, will it have, uh, for example, a significant impact upon productivity and efficiency in industries? And if so, how?

Will Trevor: 00:56:10
But if we could, if we could focus on that, that sort of job loss, that change in employment, uh, James?

James Intriligator: 00:56:19
Sure. It's a nice, easy question. Uh, yeah, that, that's a complicated one. I, I think there'll be huge changes in the, the landscape of jobs over the coming couple of years, you know, has, has happened previously with sort of the information economy, et cetera. Whole new categories of jobs will open up already there.

James Intriligator: 00:56:36
There are now, um, incredible numbers of opportunities for people who are professional prompt engineers, right? That's now become a whole job category. Uh, and I think there'll be many more things like that. People who can effectively use ChatGPT. Uh, so there'll be new, new types of jobs appearing. Of course, uh, many of the

James Intriligator: 00:56:52
older jobs will disappear. So, you know, it, it's already been happening for the last, well, forever, basically. As, as, um, automation has been coming around, right? There's no longer, uh, almost any need for loan officers, for paralegals, for entire categories of, uh, professions aren't disappearing,

James Intriligator: 00:57:10
have been because of automation and machine learning and, uh, language. Uh, Easy template, matching, things like that. This is adding a whole other layer on top of that. Uh, there'll be many more jobs that are both threatened but also accelerated by this, right? So if, uh, if you're a screenwriter,

James Intriligator: 00:57:23
yes, you should be a little bit afraid. You might be replaced by a ChatGPT model. But more likely what you should be doing is figuring out how to use ChatGPT to become a better screenwriter. Uh, if you're a poet, that's awesome. The Chachi bt most of it's poetry isn't great, but if you play with it the right ways and you kind of move it in the right spaces, it

James Intriligator: 00:57:43
can write some phenomenal poetry. Um, it hasn't quite brought me to tears, but almost, I mean, it is, it can do incredible things as, oh yeah, if you're a poet, yes, maybe reject it. Be a Luddite, write your own poetry, rely on your own creativity, that's awesome. Or embrace it and figure out ways to use it to, to your advantage. So I think it's gonna be a real,

James Intriligator: 00:57:59
uh, period of transformative growth, contraction and mutation. I don't have much more to say than that.

Will Trevor: 00:58:10
Alright, thanks James. A, a period of growth contraction, um, uh, Partha, over, over to you. Um, how, how do you think, uh, ChatGPT might, uh, affect the job market and employment opportunities in different sectors?

Partha Ghosh: 00:58:23
You know, it'll, uh, obviously affect dramatically, but again, I would like to draw on history. If you look through the different revolutions that I've gone through, the industrial Revolution revolution, then we talked about the knowledge revolution. Now we are into intelligence revolution. So intelligence revolution is different in the client for the, the first time

Partha Ghosh: 00:58:43
you'll see the knowledge workers, the people like you and me would be challenged cuz much of the work would be done by ChatGPT and different components of AI. So obviously there would be a significant dislocation as to how the knowledge workers would be engaging with society. But that said, I do feel, as we have seen with the first stage industrial revolution, the steam

Partha Ghosh: 00:59:08
engine, the second stage with the electricity, then the laptops, a empty number of new jobs will be created. There will be different in kind. I see five different industries being born. Each would be trillion dollars plus like one where I will call the green earth industry, which would be all about carbon capture, all about renewables and

Partha Ghosh: 00:59:33
AI would be the fundamental of the core to sense opportunities and the sense problems that the space travel, which will be the second industry, which will double up dramatically powered by AI. The third would be the spiritual machine, which has not been served as yet. We have served our intellectual requirements, physical requirement in the next 50 years.

Partha Ghosh: 00:59:57
It was see spiritual engines. So there have been lot of different jobs. So, We created. But what I worry about what, Lori, you touched on that how would we shape the development of human beings? Because all of a sudden, intelligence is all around, which is, we call it artificial, but becoming more and more natural.

Partha Ghosh: 01:00:20
So how to integrate natural intelligence with artificial intelligence and AI also, also at a very early stage of development, the power of AI in 10 years time would be not by few percentages, by different factors would be significantly stronger. So I think the, the key challenge would be education and how do we educate on one side professional knowledge workers to become more relevant?

Partha Ghosh: 01:00:49
Because as they get displaced with their current jobs, what would be the new jobs that there be hundreds of them? How do we train them fast? And the other side, how do we prepare the young. Children, the people in currently in universities and colleges to manage the interface between ni the natural intelligence and artificial intelligence.

Partha Ghosh: 01:01:12
So in terms of opportunities, there will be millions of opportunities, but it would require different mindset, different, uh, reference points. And as I talked about, even in the education system, the faculty would not be the kind of faculty we have seen in Oxford and Cambridge in the past. There would be faculty which are humble servants serving to unlock

Partha Ghosh: 01:01:35
the imagination of students. And that's a different kind of a ballgame, which we have to learn.

Will Trevor: 01:01:41
Thank you, Partha. Uh, Lori, I'll come to you on this, uh, topic and then perhaps we can switch topics in a moment, Baskar, and I'll come to you about, uh, democracy and, and participation implications of generative AI. But, uh, uh, Lori, what, what are your thoughts in terms of change, changes in employment and skills

Will Trevor: 01:01:56
and potentials for job losses?

Lori Mazor: 01:02:01
Well, I think this is gonna be a bit of a tug of war, to be honest. And actually the screenwriting example is a perfect one, and I'm watching that case study in progress. I mean, we have a union that is, um, Really, you know, at a point of negotiation. But the core issue is really how much we are going to allow artificial intelligence

Lori Mazor: 01:02:20
to play a role in the process. And we haven't had enough time, frankly, for people to experiment with this technology and understand it, to learn it, to absorb it before we're. Starting to take a stand. So I think in the United States, um, we are going to say, see a real tug of war with unionization. And, and I think as we've

Lori Mazor: 01:02:39
even seen in academia, u unionization has been on the rise. Um, and so there is a lot of protection, um, in, in that I think the first jobs to go, we are going to see overseas. And I, so I think there's going to be a global impact, um, that frankly we might see as a benefit initially to American businesses. Um, but that will have a, um,

Lori Mazor: 01:03:00
a pretty dramatic effect on how the globe, um, engages. And, you know, just the simple, um, choice to use a chat bot instead of to use people who might be in India or in Pakistan. Um, is, uh, it. It's profound. Um, I, I think the other labor issue, which we, we can't overlook is, you know, this technology is profoundly

Lori Mazor: 01:03:25
troubled and very problematic in terms of the way that it's come into being. And the, um, amount of labor that's gone in, uh, that was not unionized, that was unprotected, the working conditions of those people, those are things that are well-documented and frankly, those are the harms that we often brush under the rug. Um, but I think we, we do need to take into serious account.

Lori Mazor: 01:03:51
So from my perspective, this is really about thinking about this from a global perspective, um, rather than through the lens of what's gonna benefit American companies and, and frankly the, um, the stock market.

Will Trevor: 01:04:04
Thanks, Lori. Uh, Bhaskar.

Hanh Brown: 01:04:05
Let me, if I allow, um, be allowed to add

Will Trevor: 01:04:07
Sure.

Hanh Brown: 01:04:08
a spin to this from, let's say a Baby Boomer point of view. Well, I think obviously ChatGPT, very powerful. It enhances human capabilities, automate mundane tasks, freeing up for older adults who do more strategic roles. Like we mentioned, customer service you can tackle on basic increase, leaving more complex cases for human intervention.

Hanh Brown: 01:04:33
So, this could make jobs more appealing for older adults, allowing them to leverage their wisdom and experience in oversight, problem solving roles. So I think that it will create opportunities as long as folks, older adults adapt and also have a means to learn and be trained properly.

Will Trevor: 01:05:01
Thanks, Hanh. Um, Bhaskar, if I can just change, um, direction, uh, slightly, um, in, in terms of regulation, in terms of, um, politics participation. What, what, what do we, what do you see as the potential risks or benefits that ChatGPT poses to democratic systems and, and political participation? Uh, are there any regulatory

Will Trevor: 01:05:25
or, or governance measures? We've talked about guardrails, um, uh, a couple of times now, uh, needed to mitigate the potential prob political misin, uh, manipulation or, or indeed, you mentioned, misinformation, uh, earlier around ChatGPT?

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:05:43
Yeah, of course. Uh, really important question. Uh, will, uh, let me, uh, let me touch on two things and, um, one is the need for regulation and oversight. Clearly there is need for regulation and oversight. The problem is, Who's gonna do the regulation? Because if you have a Sam Altman, um, CEO

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:05:59
of, uh, OpenAI, uh, going to Congress and asking, uh, the members of Congress, uh, or other policymakers or regulators to regulate him and the industry he knows fully well, Sam is a very smart man. He knows fully well that none of the people sitting across the table have the ability to regulate a technology that they fundamentally don't understand. So I feel a lot of the AI gurus and AI,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:06:25
uh, leaders who are asking regulators to regulate them know fully well that they won't be a follow through. They're basically covering themselves, uh, with plausible deniability, uh, kind of saying, Hey, we told you that we are creating a frank Science monster, uh, regulate us now. And if the monster is unleashed, then it's on you.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:06:50
It's not my fault. So that's one. I think, and we are living through this moment right now, right? Because you think about members of Congress, forget about members of Congress who are, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, they're, they're, they're much further removed from things like, uh, AI and so on than, uh,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:07:06
the members who are attending this particular, uh, this particular debate. Even we don't understand. I mean, I, I, I, I won't be able to open up, uh, the, the hood and try to figure this out, or I'm, I can't speak for my colleagues. This, this is a technology that is very, very sophisticated, running very far ahead of our ability to, uh, create guard rail.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:07:24
So that's an ongoing issue that we need to recognize the fact that, uh, you know, we need to take this much more seriously than we currently are. And just signing a letter, an open letter saying, you know, a six month hiatus, give me a break. That is just nonsense. That's just being naive. I mean, none of these people

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:07:39
are gonna take a break. Google's business model is being threatened right now. You think Google's gonna take a break? Of course not. Microsoft is gonna take a break. Of course not. So the, the, and these people live in, uh, Riyadh. That's one.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:07:51
The second is what I really worry about, worry about is the state of democracy. And the state of democracy, of course, is being unleashed on a daily basis, or the attack on democracy being unleashed on a daily basis. And because of the abilities to be creative, ChatGPT can allow us to be much more creative in terms of disinformation. And that's only gonna click,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:08:08
uh, going up between now and, uh, 20 and 20, 24 rolls around. Now, here is the issue that I think we are not paying sufficient attention to, which is that democracy comes at a cost, and part of the cost is preserving democracy in the United States comes at a cost of democracy in the rest of the world. Here is why 2024 is a year when we are gonna have major elections

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:08:35
here in the United States. 2024 is also a year in which India, Indonesia, South Korea, a dozen African countries, at least seven Latin American countries also have elections. Now put yourself in the place of Facebook, which has just fired tens of thousands of people. Many of them who are in positions of doing content moderation.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:08:57
They've also fired their content moderation. Outsourcing teams, limited resources for content moderation at Facebook is all gonna be focused on the United States, right? Uh, historically, 90% of Facebook's content moderation was focused on the us whereas 90% of Facebook's audience was outside the us.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:09:17
Now that disproportionate allocation is only have, uh, got, got worse, and the ability of disinformation creation has just magnified because of chat shaping. So if you are worried about democracy, Yeah. Uh, sadly we ain't seeing nothing yet. And the problem is when we say we, it's not we in the United States, it's we in India, we in Indonesia,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:09:37
we in south a, uh, South Korea. We in a dozen sub sub-Saharan African countries where there's nobody who's gonna be watching the content that's gonna be running rampant in those places. And I really, really worry about the state of democracy, uh, both here and in the rest of the world.

Will Trevor: 01:09:54
Thanks, Bhaskar. James, can I come to you on, uh, on this one? Um, and then I'll come to you Partha, uh, and then I think, uh, we'll, we'll take a slightly different tank after that. But, uh, James, what, what, what do you think the implications are for, um, democracy and for, for political participation?

James Intriligator: 01:10:11
Uh, I, I don't really think I have anything to add beyond what my colleagues have been saying. I mean, I think there are, I guess, you know, there are huge dangers, presence, the, the kind of ability to generate, uh, misinformation, false text. Uh, the other thing that we haven't touched on too much directly is just the ability to write text that really

James Intriligator: 01:10:28
speaks directly to a target audience. So if you really want to have a message that gets to a very specific group of people, I either for good, right? So, you know, hey, you should really show up to the polls because otherwise, The evil guys will win whatever it is, that's great. But it could also be, you know, text that is generated to specifically speak to

James Intriligator: 01:10:47
people to make them, uh, believe that the election isn't, has been delayed by a day. There's all kinds of ways and, and ChatGPT is fabulous at coming up with texts that really speaks to and motivates, uh, uh, specific target demographic. So, not only will it be creating false information, it'll be creating false information that's even more effective, believable,

James Intriligator: 01:11:06
and targeted for a specific group. So I think that that's the other kind of side of it. It's not just gonna add noise, it's gonna add very targeted, strategically defined kind of viruses that it can put out, uh, that people can use to put out and influence elections and really undermined democratic processes in, in many different ways.

James Intriligator: 01:11:23
So yeah, that is terrifying.

Will Trevor: 01:11:25
Thanks, James. Partha?

Partha Ghosh: 01:11:27
You know, I will take a little bit of a different view, uh, just to, um, enable a debate because after all it's a debate. Uh, on while one side. I agree with both of you that. Indeed democracy is being challenged and rightly so, I would say, because many ways you could say as democracy delivered, you know, Baskar, you talked about India.

Partha Ghosh: 01:11:51
India has been democratic country for last 75 years. But when I look at the performance of India, whether they think in terms of pollution, corruption, nutrition, GDP per capita, and compare that with other countries in the neighboring areas, which are not democratic, and India's not done well. It's true, similar, if you look at the

Partha Ghosh: 01:12:13
United States, it is true that the gap between the rich and poor has increased. There are a lot of, a lot of angry people for whatever be the reason. So here is a new force that we have been exposed to, which is the power of AI. So the question to ask would be how the ChatGPT bt, or the power of AI. Would be used to create a governance process of nations governance process

Partha Ghosh: 01:12:44
of the world, which is keeping up with the technology as opposed to worried about the technology, which means maybe there are another kind of crazy in autocracy we lived through before that there were the kings and emperors democracies, relatively new. We have experimented with democracy as Churchill is to say "In absence of any other process, this is the worst of all.

Partha Ghosh: 01:13:06
Could be the best of all." So now, the question is, could we be also be innovative to use the power of intelligence, both natural and artificial, to create new governance processes, new ways of people who could participate, which could be Democracy plus one, or Democracy 2.0, or some other name, which we don't know. So I would not get locked up that

Partha Ghosh: 01:13:28
because of AI, because of ChatGPT. The democracy's challenge. Of course it is challenge, but then we have to be innovative enough to embrace this power to create the next S-curves of ma management of nations, management of society, management of the global governance. Because you, you could also see this is my favorite subject, by the way.

Partha Ghosh: 01:13:53
I can go on for three hours, but I would like to make another point. You know, we have created United Nations after the second World War. We created the League of Nations after the first World War. Both of them are not delivered. We have more wars today. Look at what's going on in the middle of Europe.

Partha Ghosh: 01:14:09
Let's look at another Korean peninsula. Look at what's going on in the South China Sea. What's growing a crisis and multiple problems in Africa and Latin America. So what has United Nations dev delivered in the name of democracy? Very little. So I think we have time has come to use and embrace this power.

Partha Ghosh: 01:14:28
To create a new humanity, new civilization that the world could celebrate, where every child, the 8 billion people could participate in development of a civilization where everyone enjoys the minimum dignity gracefulness than the world deserves. And that would need a different kind of governance, not the democracy, which has partly worked, but largely did not work.

Partha Ghosh: 01:14:53
And we have to be honest about it.

Will Trevor: 01:14:56
Thank you, Partha. We're gonna take a, a slightly different, uh, tank, uh, now, and I'll come to you Hanh, uh, first, and then then to you Lori, if I may. Um, We talked about some of the disruption, we talked about the potential for, for job losses. So, uh, those are, uh, those in the audience, uh, now thinking, well,

Will Trevor: 01:15:15
how is, how is this gonna impact me? And, and how can I, how can I prepare? Um, what, what do you think, uh, in, in terms of individuals and organizations, how can they prepare for this, uh, disruption? Uh, are there any specific skills, uh, or areas of expertise that are become increasingly more valuable, uh, in a world where ChatGPT

Will Trevor: 01:15:37
is more widely, uh, utilized? Um, how can, how can people, how can people prepare, re-skill, retrain, Hanh?

Hanh Brown: 01:15:46
Well, the folks, let's say, who's calling in, I'm guessing your college age. My advice is keep learning, creating and innovating tech courses. I know Google has offers some free courses. There are courses on Corsica that's run by, um, ING, I believe, uh, that's the last name.

Hanh Brown: 01:16:08
He came outta Google. There's abundance of some free education ranging from some basic understanding to very deep understanding of machine learning, python and have an open mind. And of course, in learning, proceed with caution. And I would say because let's say your college age, you have the whole world ahead of you.

Hanh Brown: 01:16:35
And this is just one out of many learnings ahead. Whether it's life lessons, experiences outside of your school, in your workplace, and then future family life. This is one out of many learnings ahead and I would embrace it, but proceed with caution.

Will Trevor: 01:16:54
Thanks, Hanh. Lori?

Lori Mazor: 01:16:58
Yes. So I, I pivoted my career to make this what I do for a living. Um, so I am a little biased in this way. I train people to learn generative AI and I train them in the same way that you would learn how to play the guitar, um, or, you know, play a musical instrument, um, or learn how to paint, which is, uh, it's very hands-on.

Lori Mazor: 01:17:20
I don't think this is an intellectual pursuit, and I don't think it's one that we are going to do by watching online. Um, uh, videos. I, I think this is one we do in community. Um, and actually I think the greatest opportunity, uh, post pandemic is for us to join learning communities and use the tools and pick one, uh, ignore the, the overload of what I call AI junk food.

Lori Mazor: 01:17:47
Pick one foundational model, whether it's ChatGPT or Bard, or if you want an image generator, it really doesn't matter. What you're learning is exactly what I've been talking about with this balance between control and chaos. You're learning how to communicate effectively with a machine, and you're also seeing its flaws, and I think that is what's worth

Lori Mazor: 01:18:08
having a conversation about, right? So I think pick one experiment, do it in community, get yourself trained and educated, and then we can have a more meaningful conversation at an academic level about what this means.

Will Trevor: 01:18:23
Thanks, Lori. James. Re-skilling, re-retooling? How do, how do we do it?

James Intriligator: 01:18:30
Uh, I, I think that it, again, it's something that needs to be done throughout, sort of, throughout the educational system. It, it should be that we are teaching kindergartners how to ask better questions, how to understand how to frame a question so that someone answers. I mean, a lot of these are skills that are light skills in any case, not just

James Intriligator: 01:18:48
ones relevant to ChatGPT, and LLMs, right? Asking, bringing the right question. Lots of quotes about how that's the most important part is coming up with the right question. In ChatGPT, LLM world, that's even more important than any anywhere else. Figuring out what you really want to know, mapping out a path to get from where you are, to where you want to go,

James Intriligator: 01:19:05
looking for opportunities to explore the, the broader landscape, et cetera. Those are sort of the skills that we should be teaching. Maybe not kindergarten, but um, at the very latest, I would say middle schoolers should be learning that. And in parallel, learning how to use it responsibly, right? You, uh, how, how to go about,

James Intriligator: 01:19:20
um, using it to generate. Better answers, better responses, better knowledge. Um, thinking about the implications from A DEIJ broader social cultural perspective, all of those are topics that we should be teaching them to engage with and think about, and even using ChatGPT to kind of investigate, you know, I mean, I think that if you're interested in

James Intriligator: 01:19:39
issues, uh, like, um, DEIJ issues, let's say social justice issues, et cetera, you can easily ask ChatGPT to start investigating those issues with you. And I've found that I, I've learned so much by walking through, uh, fields of knowledge, kind of half led half leading. It's kind of a collaborative exploration with ChatGPT. Um, and, and I think that that is, Kind of

James Intriligator: 01:20:02
the skill and the approach that we need to be, uh, taking in education that we need to teach people how to use it that way. How to use it responsibly. Uh, I'll just go back to something I had mentioned earlier. So if, let's say you're in high school and you have to write a AP English essay and it's due Friday, et cetera, uh, it's very easy for kids now to just go to

James Intriligator: 01:20:24
ChatGPT and have it write the essay and, you know, you could ask it to make it a little bit dumbed down so it doesn't sound like it was written by ChatGPT. You could ask it to include particular themes, you know, that's pretty good, but make it 10% shorter. Can you make it 20% shorter and sound a little bit more written at a slightly lower, uh, Linguistic

James Intriligator: 01:20:38
sophistication level, you could do all of those things and end up with a wonderful final artifact. But I think both the training and the assessment should actually start to ask to see that path that you took. Uh, and, and part of what you'll be assessed on is not the final deliverable, but more the, the journey you took to assemble that final deliverable.

James Intriligator: 01:20:58
It's like more, more like an artist's assessment, um, a critique session where you wanna, you know, you don't wanna just see the final industrial designed product. You wanna see all of the sketches that led up to it and all the explorations. Which textures did you explore? Which colors, how did you look at them, et cetera. And I think with Chachi Bt, as you're

James Intriligator: 01:21:12
sort of partner on that exploration, you can really go very far. But you should also be documenting that path and that's how maybe you'll be assessed. But again, I'm not really sure.

Will Trevor: 01:21:25
Thanks, James. Partha?

Partha Ghosh: 01:21:27
Oh, it's a million dollar question. I see it the two sides to it. One, the how to skill and re-skill people who be serving. I would call the entire AI in universe, and obviously that's where people have to learn about how to manage ChatGPT. But the other side, I feel it's not a question of re-skilling, but all of a

Partha Ghosh: 01:21:55
sudden you have got this intelligence with which you can converse, comes into play. It's like when the electricity came into play, everyone did not learn about electricity and how to make the bulb or how to work in the power stations. But with the light came new ways of thinking. People can work 24/7, they can work in the night.

Partha Ghosh: 01:22:16
Similarly, when the intelligence have come into play, I think their education has to focus on how to use this new power for the betterment of society. And then comes a question, education of whom? Are we talking about the top 10% of the people, the world, or are we talking about the bottom of 80%? I look at the people at the bottom

Partha Ghosh: 01:22:35
of the 80% bottom, 80% people in the small villages in Africa, in India, in Brazil, in Indonesia. Unfortunately, through my Boston pledge activities, I see the intelligence there, except they don't have the access. So how good education be modified using the power of ChatGPT, so that you can converse in the local language, not in English, but the other thing that

Partha Ghosh: 01:23:03
we have done to the world, we have lost a lot of the great languages because everyone has to learn English to belong ChatGPT gives you the power to speak in your mother tongue. If you are a village in Chile, you speak in the local Chilean language, you talk to someone in Bangladesh, Bengali, but they, the cloud would do the translation for you.

Partha Ghosh: 01:23:24
So that's the kind of education that we could bring to play where, and you know, we do not have to go to DeVos the top. 5% of the population of the one person that goes. But when people could begin to conference with each other when they're in the, in the ground, in a village, in a field, and exchange best practices in their own mother

Partha Ghosh: 01:23:45
tongue, that would open up a new world. And that's the kind of education that we have to bring to play. So question is education for whom? And education for the bottom 80 person. If that could be reformed, reimagine using the power of ChatGPT, then we have done service to the world and that's why the were one of my comp, the companies I'm involved with in queue is working on.

Partha Ghosh: 01:24:11
So it's possible it's happening. And I think that's where the world could go.

Will Trevor: 01:24:16
Thank you, Partha. Um, so we just have seven minutes remaining and I'd like to pose this question to, to all of you. Uh, Hanh I think it was you, uh, who started us off by saying that, you know, that this is the start of maybe even greater developments in technology, uh, which, which, which kind of reminded me of, uh, of, uh,

Will Trevor: 01:24:35
Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" when they invent the computer, Deep Thought in the first, when they ask it about life, meaning, uh, uh, life life's, the, the earth meaning and everything. And it says, well, actually, that's the computer that comes next that I will invent will actually help you, uh, answer that.

Will Trevor: 01:24:53
So Hanh, uh, help us look, uh, look to the high horizon here. What is next? What is coming next? What would, what we, what should we be watching, uh, in, in terms of what the future trends have in store for us?

Hanh Brown: 01:25:06
Well, as you know, some of the technologies that we are seeing, some are still in beta, right? And even when beta it is amazing. For instance, Wolfram plugins in ChatGPT, amazing. Science, technology, engineering, and also Runway ML. Amazing, right? So, what should we look ahead?

Hanh Brown: 01:25:32
Well consider where we are right now with some recent development and even when, uh, it's only in beta, I think it's almost like the sky is the limit. So I'm really excited to engage in these tools and technologies, in all regards. I'm learning, Hugging Face, Python, Wolfram, Auto-GPT. So, the key here is keep learning because it's evolving so fast.

Hanh Brown: 01:26:03
So that, that would be my take on what's ahead of us, is that we, we, in order to keep up, we really need to be learning every day.

Will Trevor: 01:26:11
Thanks, Hanh. Bhaskar. What's, uh, what's on the horizon for us?

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:26:15
Yeah. In the spirit of learning, one thing I've learned is it's mug's game, trying to predict, uh, uh, the future, right? So I, uh, won't even step in there. Uh, uh, what I would say perhaps is what I would like to see in the future, and, uh, what I would like to see is, uh, generative AI, uh, actually having some byproducts, not

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:26:35
necessarily in generating, you know, uh, new visuals or new essays and so on. I think that's all very, very useful and relevant, uh, uh, uh, material. Um, what I'd like to see is, uh, all the innovations that are going to go into, uh, the creation of future generations of, uh, of GPT uh, and, uh, The work that, uh, very smart people are gonna be involved in the harnessing of data.

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:27:04
Uh, uh, the thinking around, um, creating ethical guardrails and, and, and frameworks, uh, uh, not just relating to generative AI, but AI more broadly. I'm hoping that it has a spillover effect in other applications of AI. And I would say, just to kind of go back to, I might be sounding like a broken drum. I think AI's biggest application

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:27:30
isn't saving human life, and so far it's done a terrible job, but it's potential is enormous. So, even before, uh, generative AI hit the headlines in, in the end of 2022, in the mid stage or early parts of 2022, another landmark development happened in AI when Alpha Fold, uh, basically, uh, developed the ability to predict the structure of every protein

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:27:56
in, uh, the human body. Now, what that means is it could potentially open the door to massive amounts of revolutions in drug discovery, vaccine discovery, new forms of treatment. So, I'm really hoping that the future is one where the spillover of all the talent and effort and capital that's going into generative AI can actually help us deliver better outcomes in AI, in healthcare,

Bhaskar Chakravorti: 01:28:20
AI, in saving human life, whether it's in health or crisis response, or to a variety of other ways in which this kind of technology could be put to use.

Will Trevor: 01:28:32
Thanks, Bhaskar. James, what, what should we be looking at on the horizon?

James Intriligator: 01:28:36
Uh, well, it, it, like, like they all said, it's very hard to make any predictions. When I first started playing around with ChatGPT back in December, I was thinking, oh man, a year from now they're gonna have things they can do X, Y, or Z. And within three weeks they had things they can do X, Y, or Z. And I thought, wow, okay.

James Intriligator: 01:28:51
In like six months they'll have something they could do A, B, C, and then within two weeks, A, B, C was happening. I mean, the speed of acceler, the, the speed of growth here is, is just kind of scary actually. It really is. I mean, uh, I can't even imagine what things will be like six months from now. The ability to generate video,

James Intriligator: 01:29:05
generate music, I mean, all of these things are happening. Generate agents that generate other agents to take care of complex tasks. You can, uh, spawn sub-agent. I mean, it's crazy. I, one thing I've just been thinking about recently is the idea that maybe this should be thought of as a public utility. Maybe it should be

James Intriligator: 01:29:21
provided free of charge. Maybe the government should just eminent domain, take over open AI and offer it up as a free service available to everyone. That it should be seen like water or air or food. It should be a human right to have access to ChatGPT. Uh, it is incredibly empowering to have that access and to not have

James Intriligator: 01:29:39
it is incredibly disempowering. It puts you at a real disadvantage from a social justice perspective. I think that's a huge issue. Uh, I'll stop there.

Will Trevor: 01:29:47
Thanks, James. We've got just two minutes left. So, Partha and Lori, if I could have your, your, your headline thoughts on, on what is next?

Partha Ghosh: 01:29:54
Let Lori go first and Partha will finish with whatever time is left.

Lori Mazor: 01:30:03
I will add that, um, the dirty little word, uh, the Metaverse is not going away. And in fact, uh, I think what we are going to see with AI and what we are already seeing in the signals, um, from those things that are in beta, is that synthetic reality will be in our hands in a very short period of time. And the moment at which my 15 year

Lori Mazor: 01:30:24
old daughter can use natural language to envision a space that she wants to invite her friends to come over, um, and using, you know, well whatever version of, um, of AR versus VR, we are, we are at, um, this is the moment that we're going to move from this post-truth world into, uh, a realm of possibility. And, you know, and the matrix will be a reality.

Lori Mazor: 01:30:53
So we have a lot to, um, to deal with beyond just AI.

Will Trevor: 01:30:57
Thanks, Lori. Partha? Yeah, one minute.

Partha Ghosh: 01:30:59
I think uh, you know, it's has been all kind of touched on. The world would be different because of ChatGPT, because of AI. They clearly scratching the surface more to come given what more to come as Bhaskar and all of you touched on. We cannot really bet on what that more might be. But what we could definitely bet on

Partha Ghosh: 01:31:18
that the choices and the options in front of us will exponential increase. That's point number one. Some of them will open up new possibilities. Some of will create problems, that's for sure. We talked about democracy. We do not know how the democracy would evolve, but democratization

Partha Ghosh: 01:31:40
of knowledge will happen. So that gives me hope that as Bhaskar you were talking about, that we will able to bring a new equation for the development of humanity. That's very important because fortunately I've been exposed to a hundred dollars per capita environment to $200,000 per capita environment. And it is shameful that we can make

Partha Ghosh: 01:32:02
those environment coexist today. We have to solve that problem. So in that spirit, the the point that I would like to make for the younger people, the choices are many life cycle of choices would be shrinking because that's where we have to be extremely fast. We have to be knowing how to engage with opportunities cause that's the shrink. And most important would be if AI

Partha Ghosh: 01:32:27
could do the logical work, the, uh, mathematical work, the Ian work, could we unlock through the education system, the imaginative power of society, the imaginative power of individuals, which is the right brain, and in the process, create a new world that each one of us could be proud of. So, I think that's what I would like to emphasize, that we have

Partha Ghosh: 01:32:56
an opportunity to serve humanity better and we should work with it. And of course, I would not use the word guardrails, but be concerned citizens, to be able to avoid the unintended consequences. You know, the term unintended cons is too frequently used, or we experimented, but unintended, we cannot afford that because anything unintended in

Partha Ghosh: 01:33:19
the world of AI would be extremely dangerous, which we cannot afford. So we have to take a holistic view as to how we engage with the world of ChatGPT, the world of AI, and in the process create a better world that we are proud of.

Will Trevor: 01:33:34
Thank you, Partha. And that just takes us to up to two o'clock. So, uh, thank you very much to all of the panelists for coming and talking to this, uh, very topical, uh, issue. You, you brought a range of different perspectives and it was a, a highly insightful and interesting, um, uh, discussion.

Will Trevor: 01:33:53
It really was. Uh, Bhaskar Chakravorti. Thank you to you. Uh, Hanh Brown. Thank you to you. James Intriligator. Thank you. Partha Ghosh. Uh, and, uh, Lori Mazor. Thank you to all of you for freely,

Will Trevor: 01:34:02
uh, giving of your time, uh, today. Uh, thanks also to those of you who, uh, came attended. Uh, this keynote debate will be taking a break over the summer, but we'll be back, uh, in the fall term with a different, uh, topic to look at. Uh, we are gonna take notice on the questions. We tried to amalgamate

Will Trevor: 01:34:18
some of those questions. Some of those questions were answered on live, but we may well make a post in which we, uh, answer each of those questions. But, uh, uh, please enjoy the rest of your day, travel safely. Thanks very much for coming today. Goodbye.

Hanh: 00:00:00
I appreciate you being here. I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast. And today's LinkedIn Live event is: "The AI Frontier. The ethical and policy considerations for a healthier future." We're standing at a threshold of a new era shaped by artificial intelligence. A technology that while promising presents unique challenges from generating misinformation and increasing polarization to job displacement. The burning questions are, how can we harness AI's power responsibly? And what can we do to mitigate its risk? And to help navigate this complex landscape, I'm honored to have Dr. Leith States from

Hanh: 00:01:02
the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. So together, we'll unravel AI's intricacies, uncover its vast potential, and try to carve a path towards a future where AI is positive, is a positive force in today's society. AI's influence spans multiple sectors, including medicine. It offers extraordinary potential, predicting disasters, detecting cancer with position. But these advances underscore the need for thoughtful regulation and transparency, especially in healthcare. Where AI's role is increasingly significant. With our society aging rapidly, it's critical to address how AI can serve our older adults responsibly and empathetically, without compromising diagnostic accuracy, or

Hanh: 00:01:52
infringing on patient rights. So we'll delve into these issues, and much more today. So as we embark on this journey, exploring the challenges and discussing the ethical and policy implications, and envisioning a healthier, more equitable future powered by AI. We welcome and encourage your active participation. So let's get started. I'd like to introduce Leith States, whose life embodies resilience and transformation. His experiences have inspired a deep appreciation for grace, humility, and second chances, which shape his life and work. And believing in the power of love to dispel fear and nurture compassion, Dr. Leith States sees

Hanh: 00:02:39
AI as a tool that can reflect these virtues and create transformative change. Dr. Leith States, welcome back to the show.

Leith: 00:02:49
Good morning, Hanh. Thank you for having me again, and thank you for bearing with some of my technological issues for me. I guess very appropriate for the topic we're speaking to. Thank you again for having me. Very happy to be here.

Hanh: 00:03:03
Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, so let's dive right in. So let's kick things off with questions, as a likely to be in everyone's mind. So given the rapid pace at which technology is progressing, especially in the field of AI, so what is your personal view on this whirlwind speed of AI innovations? So do you think that we're keeping up, raising ahead, or maybe struggling to catch up?

Leith: 00:03:29
Well, I think in general stepping back and looking at what's required for advancement of many, many people group, any civilization, any nation, we need disruption. And disruption on its own is going to be difficult because it implies the need for change. And unfortunately, I think with AI, our preconceived notions of how quickly that change would come or how impactful that disruption would be have been grossly undercapulated. So I think that when the theoretical impacts versus what's actually happening in reality don't match, that creates a reflexive desire to slow down, or just a reflexive desire to retain or regain some type of control, whether that's actual control or perceived control. So I think that's where some of the danger lies with where we're at right now. So I think that your original question would regard to too fast, too slow, just right.

Leith: 00:04:36
I think we're doing all three. And unfortunately, I don't think that they're all aligned on the same sheet of music with regards to pursuing a reality that leads to the ethical, appropriate use of AI with guard rails in place that protect us from a variety of the perceived threats and real threats. And also maximizes the goods that it could do or the good that it could do.

Hanh: 00:05:06
Great, great, thank you. OK, so we're going to go through some very important topics. So let's get started with chronic diseases. So when dealing with chronic diseases it can sometimes feel like the disease is in the driver's seat. The daily management, the constant diligence, well, it can be really tough. Perhaps there's a silver lining on the horizon and that's AI. And it's not just about data or algorithms. It's about shifting the power back into the hands of the patients. So Dr. States, can you tell us more how AI might help the patients we gain some control in their battle against chronic diseases?

Leith: 00:05:52
So that's a really good question. I think you couch it from the right perspective of gaining control or that capacity of agency, of self-efficacy, right? The inherent capacity to be able to make changes in one's own life. So I don't think any individual or sector within health or barma or biotech would really caveat AI as the only tool to use in combating chronic disease burden, either nationally, globally in communities at the hyper-local level. It's an oughtment to, but it certainly isn't something that's going to be a cure all. I guess a good way to look at this is from the standpoint of what health care is often asked to do at baseline, which is for a variety of issues that it has no business providing

Leith: 00:06:54
solutions for. It frequently is asked to do because the point of quantification in terms of tracking outcomes, whether that's morbidity, mortality, some type of granular lab value that can be tracked, or reflections of upstream issues that have created those health manifestations, whether it's a chronic disease, whether it's exposure to some type of infectious source and environmental exposure. And I think that where we need to have a, I want to call it a strategic pause for health care, is to realize that the greatest potential impact for AI is likely going to occur outside the laws of a hospital or a health system. And by that, I mean, if we can use AI to better create a built environment or recreate

Leith: 00:07:53
built environments or more adequately assess poverty levels or address starvation, address malnutrition, address inequitable areas around criminal justice, things that lead to baseline stress, increased levels of malignancy, inability to buy the correct foods or have meaningful employment, to reduce recidivism, to reduce imprisonment to begin with, to allow for better capacity to care for that transition, key transition stages in life going from adolescent to adult or from, you know, independent living to assisted living or to assist the capacity to maintain an independent lifestyle for aging populations. I think that those are meaningful considerations that I hope are not lost on health care at large. And it seems that that's not the case, but there's always that risk that we develop tunnel

Leith: 00:08:55
vision by function of mandate or by function of reimbursement and payment that creates a sense that health care is supposed to be the agent to change all. But I think we just need to better engage. And this is a normal refrain that will hear across many issues in public health and health is that we just don't speak well to other sectors of life. And that's partly because we don't go out of our own cocoons from time to time. And then a part of it is we just speak a different language in general. So that's part of my hope around AI is that it maximizes the good outside of the walls of the hospital to improve quality of life and mitigate those occurrences that require us to have increased touch points later in life with the health system.

Hanh: 00:09:48
Great, great, thank you. And also the idea of patients taking control, making informed decisions about their health, that's a future that we're all hoping for. So thank you, thank you.

Leith: 00:10:09
Yeah.

Hanh: 00:10:10
All right, so let's talk about the mental health. It's an issue that's very close to many of our hearts. It's often silent, invisible, and it can affect anyone. The sooner that we can detect an intervene, the better the chances of recovery. And the real game changer could be AI, it's not the potential, it's got the potential to step in early and to alter life trajectories and to bring back hope. So can you share your thoughts on how AI could potentially be the begin of hope in early detection and intervention?

Leith: 00:10:45
Well, I think it does parse out in a similar fashion with regards to where we see the greatest impact for the amount of concentrated, I guess, AI utilization. And while I think that, you know, with AI, you know, the devil is obviously in the details of how the data is presented, how it's coded, what the algorithm or the, you know, the ML developers are, you know, seeing as important, right? So a lot of that gets back to the demographic makeup of the teams. So there's a very human touch on AI, whether, you know, I have generative or if we have other types of AI that would, you know, provide some evaluative component to the black boxes that we typically see with, you know, regard to like, how did the AI come to that decision? Well, that's not easily discernible in some cases.

Leith: 00:11:49
And that is one area of caution where I think that, you know, the area of mental health, behavioral health, suicidality risk, substance use risk, the predictive aspects of it can be problematic with regards to what data is used and then how that data is used. So while I think that there's a large capacity for it to impact those touch points where you would have more of an acute intervention or even some sub-acute intervention where you're hitting the mark before crisis sets in, there is not from my standpoint a clear understanding of AI developers or just, you know, entities that are invested in utilizing AI frameworks to apply to these types of problem sets. One example of GF is, you know, Facebook and their approach to algorithmic development around suicidality risk prediction in social media, the lack of willingness to be transparent

Leith: 00:12:58
with what data, how that data is used, what is going into the coding leads to identification of one versus discounting of another. I think that there needs to be a bit more of a transparent and trust-laden framework that allows for those types of sensitive touch points to be leveraged in an ethical way. And that's the big concern for me from specifically mental health is ethical implication because it's a sensitive space, being someone that has a history of a lot of mental health diagnoses myself and having been on and a depressed sense of psychotics, having, you know, history of substance use and being a sustained remission, it's a sensitive area where you are part of the agency and independence is, you know, not disclosing what you feel you shouldn't have to and there's a risk there inherently around these diagnoses because of what goes

Leith: 00:14:02
into making an informed decision. So you either want to have the right data or you don't want to have abstractions of unmeaningful data points. So that's one concerning area I have. So while I think it has great capacity for good, that's even, that's where a slow walk I think needs to occur to an even greater degree than other healthcare application considerations.

Hanh: 00:14:25
Your comments brings me to the next question, thank you. So when we think about the struggles faced by communities across the world, like you mentioned, substance abuse is an issue that often comes to mind. It's a very complex problem, one that destroys lives and tears families apart and it's not just about the individual user, it's the impact reverberates through society. Perhaps AI would be under horizon as the glimmer of hope, I guess like you describe analyzing patterns, predicting outcomes and offering timely interventions, this has a potential to intervene and be a game changer. Do you have others that you could add, Dr. States, whether, you know, how this could be the light that AI might serve as for substance abuse prevention and treatment?

Leith: 00:15:27
Well, I think, you know, with substance abuse in particular, you know, there's, you know, if for anybody that's had a touch point as a family member or a person struggling with substance abuse themselves or a friend, anyone that's close and has been exposed to what, you know, you could distill down to a series of patterns and cycles that are evidenced over time, right? So it's one of those things, it's kind of a, it's a, it's a perfect example of pattern recognition, but I think that the patterns of use and the patterns of risk and the patterns of relapse or slip ups or increasing risk profile that would lead to some type of increase used or danger issues or potential for, you know, overdose in the near future is a worthwhile endeavor in part because of those patterns and because of the things we see as well defined

Leith: 00:16:38
based on the literature, risk factors for XYZ. So I've seen, we've seen that with the ability to do some predictive modeling around, you know, one month risk of overdose after discharge and using that in a way to help provide targeted increased utilization of wraparound services and plug-ins for support for whatever may be needed to provide that bridge to next step in treatment, whether that's, you know, intensive outpatient, residential treatment, CBT, talk therapy, whatever the case may be. So I think that there is a lot of value there to optimize what's already a overstretched and overextended infrastructure for behavioral health across the country with regards to, you know, the implications for other stressors that are maybe further upstream and now I'm speaking to things like ACEs, speaking to those things in childhood and adolescence

Leith: 00:17:42
that really do provide the backdrop and the foundation for many individual subsequent use, you know, I think, you know, the jury would obviously be out there, but I think it gets back to the broader implications for how can you disrupt generational cycles of trauma through a mechanism that marries AI into improving our capacity to provide good governance as a nation or as a state, as a locality, as a municipality. And it's not an issue of, for me, it's not an issue strictly of health equity or anything like that. It's more doing, doing right by the folks that are within your constituency. It's just doing the most good for the greatest number and maximizing that with the tools that you have.

Leith: 00:18:38
And if AI can be matured and leveraged in a way that does so, I think that would have downstream impact on the prevalence, the actual overall influx in the pipeline of individuals that may have a series of experiences that would facilitate or bring about the likelihood of substance use disorder or other associated mental health diagnoses.

Hanh: 00:19:14
Thank you so much, Dr. States. I'd like to acknowledge the folks that are in the audience. Thank you so much for being here. Who should be the owner of the information? And what kind of value chain transformation do we need? Can you address that?

Leith: 00:19:33
So in terms of the owner of the data, that's always an interesting question, especially when you're potentially leveraging hyper-local data sets. And I think one of the ways that folks can actually develop agency and buy in is to be interested in the core owners of that data. That's always, and obviously there are a variety of barriers that come along with the custodial chain for data, right? So things like appropriate data use agreements or a burdensome look at MOUs or having some federated data stream that requires a data lake and who has capacity to query that and for how long and what are you able to utilize and leverage as opposed to what will remain redacted in PII in a PII format.

Leith: 00:20:32
I think a question of ownership of also around the type of data that is used. So we get the things like public health data that's more population health in nature or law enforcement data, which I think has a great capacity to inform the broader implications of AI and its utilization, but that gets to issues like, well, what if we ended up with something like predictive policing, right? So then I get, you know, my, my, my spidey sense goes off and I get worried about things like, oh, minority report, and are we going to be in this type of police state where we have data leveraged against us? And I don't think that's too far afield. I mean, the AI, Godfather's that has spoken out recently about the tears of the likely

Leith: 00:21:22
foot of threat from AI. I think that it's kind of well placed with regards to the potential or theoretical risk of harm. At the same time, I'm cognizant of the fact that, you know, it does require a certain amount of data quality and volume to inform AI with the best chance to make an informed decision. And I know that sounds, you know, like I'm giving AI consciousness. And I don't think that's too awful far off in the, in the future. But, but I do think that we need to be very careful around that question of ownership. But I think it ultimately reflects back on that need to have good data with the appropriate

Leith: 00:22:15
human touch in forming AI capacity to identify patterns and come to decisions that align with what a reasonable, centered, holistic, healthy human might also come to the same conclusion on. And then the second question, Hanh, I can't remember. You remind me.

Hanh: 00:22:39
Sure. Absolutely. Ron is asking, and what kind of value change transformation do we need from linear economy to move or to more preventative with crossover finance? And how do we tackle parties who are not having a license to change?

Leith: 00:22:58
So that's interesting. The consideration around the early adopters versus kind of the late or the hard adopters, the folks that maybe are going to be more standoffish and not willing to integrate or adopt novel ways, novel ways of applying AI in whatever industry they might be in. Part of that comes through the need for governance and policy. And I think that's one of the obvious areas in the U.S. where we've been behind. If we look at our counterparts that are in the EU and how they've applied the GDPR around their pursuit of AI Bill of Rights. And then also, that can then relate and fuel and provide the backdrop for a more significant policy framing or other types of, you know, admin engineering controls that would maybe

Leith: 00:24:01
permit for a guard rail driven value chain that allows folks to find themselves with some type of ROI as these things are starting to be built out in different sectors. Because right now I think the narrative is a little bit too nebulous and we don't know enough about what AI is good for me. And so that kind of what's in it for me, I think is a bit absent because the narrative is just saying, oh, AI is going to change everything. It's going to be good for humankind. But without some capacity for the granularity of folks to see themselves reflected in it and understand the capacity for good for them or for their company or their startup for their patient population or whatever the group is that they are responsible to or accountable

Leith: 00:24:53
for. There's going to be a lot of difficulty in applying value across a supply chain or across an industry. So hopefully that's a helpful response. But happy to clarify further if there's a follow-up on that.

Hanh: 00:25:10
Great. Thank you, Dr. States. All right. So in the realm of healthcare, accessibility and inclusivity are two significant challenges. Everyone deserves access to the best possible healthcare, but yet disparities exist. Their social, economic status, geographical location, race, gender, and many other factors that impact the quality of care that one receives. So now with the advent of AI, we're hopeful or we envision a world where healthcare is not only universally accessible, but also personalized and effective, I guess, regardless of one's background or circumstances and to predictive analytics, personal, personalized

Hanh: 00:26:00
medicine, telemedicine. So AI has the potential to democratize healthcare and contribute where everyone feels seen, heard, and cared for. So now, Dr. States, how can AI work towards providing this quality healthcare for everyone? Irrespective of what there are circumstances and make them feel valued and heard.

Leith: 00:26:23
Well, so when I hear you say democratize, what goes off for me is another D-word, which is another disruptive one, so right? And where things are too disruptive, too fast, I think when you especially have quite a few incumbents in a given field that are accustomed to realizing financial gain through an established way of doing things, it's going to create problems. So I think that for AI, it's no different with regards to operating within a current insurance, farm, healthcare delivery, and research industry that maybe we'll see some areas more responsive or receptive to, and we'll have those as kind of the early spots of maybe reflected gains. And one thing I could think of is the way you may have predict, you know, with patient

Leith: 00:27:23
flow, with the actual capacity to triage and better allocate resources at that first touch for pre-hospital care, acute care, even, you know, surgical delivery of services. So across kind of the fee for service, you know, still framework, I think that you have a way to optimize there, with the consideration around things like, you know, one of the things for medicine that frequently gets brought up is like, improve clinical decision support, right? Or improve capacity to tailor a EHR for a given health system, right? Or having, you know, your AI doctor working alongside your human doctor, and the argument that the two of them together are better than either alone. So there's some, I think, semblance of where you have those touch techniques at the bedside,

Leith: 00:28:28
right? And to help improve, maybe not just outcomes with regards to a disposition or treatment plan and utilization of medications and other resources that a patient might need, but also perhaps that could improve the capacity for trust in a patient provider relationship to be a partnership to be a bit more of a team working in, working in concert towards a goal of health for that individual, right? And that's one of the things that we've seen, I think, that's, you know, been helped by tech in general in the advent of the Internet and the capacity to work through issues on one's own volition, which is the asymm, which was the asymmetry of knowledge in that patient provider relationship.

Leith: 00:29:26
And now that that has been, I don't want to say it's not on even putting, because I still think there is a wonderfully great value in having a clinical practitioner that has been through clinical training and understands the nuances of what the entire picture looks like of a patient's health as opposed to getting the siloed lab test results or the siloed result from a PHQ-9 or the siloed result from an imaging study. They can help, you know, provide the broad strokes for a patient in that provider relationship that allows for kind of that true empowerment. But I think that, you know, there's also been a lot of power from patients taking agency and being able to research on their own, because it's, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, the rising tide, you know, raises all ships.

Leith: 00:30:28
So if we have knowledge being available to all, then I think that helps bolster the trust, that bolsters the capacity to do good and the capacity for us to have an effective utilization of what has historically been a much more asymmetric interface. I think that's probably been seen, you know, for our purposes, when we think of folks with neurodegenerative change and cognitive impacts of whatever insult, whether it's organic, if it's exogenous, something that has happened that has limited capacity over time, especially for aging populations, the, there's great, great utility there for AI to do good. You know, one of the things I'm reminded of is we all saw the story last week with the gentleman that was previously paralyzed and has been able to work over time with the AI-driven development of the tech that's allowing him to, you know, have this feedback where pattern

Leith: 00:31:39
recognition allows for this tech to pick up on what the brain is saying. And you will move here. You will move there. It's absolutely amazing to me that this would have probably taken like a million post-docs working four years at a time in the past and you have a capacity for a high volume of computing with the capacity to identify patterns and work through a very complex series of data points that allows for a tangible benefit to a patient. So that's one of the more impactful ones for me. I know it was just a recent last week, but it's certainly one of those checkboxes for oh, look what it can do.

Hanh: 00:32:34
The healthcare experience that we are, you know, discussing, it's not just about technology, it's showing empathy, it's humanity. So thank you. Thank you so much. All right, so I'm going to go on to the next question. The healthcare professionals have always stressed the importance of early detection and managing health conditions, catching a disease in early stages often allows more treatment options and better outcomes. Now with the power of AI and machine learning, we can analyze vast amounts of data and identify subtle patterns that might indicate an early stages of a disease or even before the symptoms

Hanh: 00:33:15
appear. So this can potentially alter someone's life trajectory and making early intervention possible and increasing the chances of better health outcomes. So with that in mind, Dr. States, could you elaborate what your thoughts are in AI could potentially alter someone's life trajectory to early detection?

Leith: 00:33:38
Well, yeah, I think, you know, there's certainly been even in my experience over the last, you know, 15 years seeing in the example I might bring up this, you know, in the area of radiology and some of the early observations, I think with a lot of skepticism that you could have pattern recognition utilizing machine learning and AI to allow for a consistently improved capacity to detect early pathology, whether it was an incidentaloma or you actually had a screening study that you were being seen for, right? So that's always the, considerate, and this is also, you know, one of the, I guess, the more apparent areas where you want to minimize harm, right? And that could be the screening test because obviously, pop-offs positives can lead to quite a bit of harm.

Leith: 00:34:43
Think of the controversy over the last 10 years around the age for mammograms to be conducted, you know, is it 50, is it 40, why do we have a varying level of support or distrust based on whichever professional society or the USPSTF is chiming it on? And one of the things is, you know, it always takes data time to mature, and there are different ways that data can be interpreted obviously, and there are different conclusions that will be drawn based on, you know, methodologies, sample size, power, statistical significance. All, you know, the variety of things we use is clinicians, researchers, scientists to make these informed decisions about what can be done with a research classification or with a clinical diagnosis, right, a clinical test. And I think that there's a obvious utilization in the early diagnosis for a variety of conditions.

Leith: 00:35:55
The one you might think of in a more concentrated way or focused way, rather, is something like a cancer across the board and the capacity to do a high throughput screen for a variety with a single test, right, it's something like Grail that's, you know, currently being evaluated with the national health system in the UK and in England. And I think that it has the absolute capacity to, and it absolutely will disrupt our screening paradigms for disease. To go from looking at a single cancer, at a single point in time, at a single age range, and I'm thinking of something similar to the way that USPSTF, the recommendations typically will come out and other professional societies as well, I think that it will change the way we fundamentally think about our screening programs and public health approaches to cancer,

Leith: 00:37:02
diagnosis, treatment, prevention, and it already, I think, has started to do so. So things like, you know, the cancer moonshot that have, that's come out and, well, I guess, shouldn't say come out. I think, you know, it's, you know, redoubling efforts, providing a renewed focus with understanding that things have changed, that treatments are being developed and they're being developed much faster, that diagnostics are being developed and being done much faster in large part because of, I shouldn't say large part, but in increasingly informed and matured by machine learning and AI and whatever outputs we see in the near future, for a variety of, you know, medications or tests or devices that are being developed, increasingly there is an element that's informed by that increased capacity for computing, pattern recognition,

Leith: 00:38:05
and then operationalizing those observed effects.

Hanh: 00:38:09
Thank you so much. So the technology that's been gaining considerable attention is AI chatbots. These digital assistants have the potential to revolutionize patient care, providing around the clock support and answering queries and even helping with initial diagnosis. So, with any new technology, there are some concerns, one such concern is privacy. Given the sensitive nature of healthcare data and ensuring privacy is huge and the challenge we face is finding a balance between the exciting potential of these chatbots that it presents and the necessity of protecting patient data. So in this context, what do you suggest, like how do we navigate the difficult balance between innovation that AI chatbots bring to healthcare and then also the privacy concerns

Hanh: 00:39:14
that it presents? What's your thought?

Leith: 00:39:16
So the application of these chatbots in the clinical setting has been, you know, I think partly the comical in terms of some of the observations. I think there was a piece in JAMA that looked at patient satisfaction with like their after-visit summary letters or like a letter from providers and these chatbots generated letters being received more favorably than the actual ones that were written by the doctors. And you know, that might be a more levity-laden, you know, example, which I think probably demonstrates some of the utility. I think that by and large, with these chatbots, it gets to that question. I think I mentioned in my previous response that it's talking about the white coat doctor versus the AI doctor and then working better in tandem rather than isolation.

Leith: 00:40:24
And I think the risk that is run is that a chatbot becomes an exclusive, it becomes a surrogate in its entirety for a touchpoint with an actual human provider in any variety, right? NPPA, B-O-M-D, right? There still should be that leveraged touchpoint that allows for communication and feedback that is fundamental to that provider patient interaction. I'm not, you know, I'm not so, not even my approach that, you know, I think that there could not be applications that would be inherently useful to work flow management, to delivery of care that would not compromise patient safety and you could retain patient privacy, you know, respect HIPAA considerations.

Leith: 00:41:30
But I think it's a very difficult series of critical touchpoints that need to be managed well before anything like that would ever be rolled out. So I think that while it's possible, I would hope and think that that's not likely in the future.

Hanh: 00:41:56
Does AI and chatbot functionality, further complicate, hang on here, the Let Me Web MD, my issue instead of going to the doctor notion?

Leith: 00:42:17
Yeah, I think, you know, so I think that's always the, so where there is increased agency and command of literature and understanding, I think there's probably a good back and forth that could occur from that like chatbot functionality and capacity to, if it's a, and this is where we get to the issue of who determines what is a verifiable or judicious AI interface. So where are the good chatbots, you know, where is the bad chatbot because you may want to utilize the good chatbot to verify some things, you may be, it may have cleaned and researched from whether D or from Google, whatever the case may be. And that I think gets back to one of the other considerations, which is, okay, if patient X does a Google search and they find something out and they have, let's say they have 40 pound weight loss over the last six months, unintended night sweats and they're otherwise becoming

Leith: 00:43:28
conjectic and they're not entirely sure why. For many providers, we would have alarm bells raised about some type of malignancy or potentially even infectious process. So there might be, you know, public health issue at play there. So let's say that all this chatbot, you know, was, school dawn was to think of malignancy, malignancy, malignancy. This patient decides, you know what? I don't want any parts of that. I'm not going to check it out any further. While all along they had, you know, pulmonary TV or maybe they had some other type of disseminated

Leith: 00:44:08
TV where it was actively transmissible and now they become a public health risk, well, who is responsible for the lack of an informed AI chatbot? I don't know. Is it the company? Is it, you know, the provider not having been nice enough that the individual didn't want to go see their primary care doc? I think that that's one of the other issues is around the accountability for AI when it goes wrong and when it goes well. So that's, hopefully, that was a little bit of an off-the-fly example, but hopefully that resonated while it's in public.

Hanh: 00:44:49
What do you see the FDA's role in AI, I guess, however you define it? Regulation as to both indications for use and associated warnings for product labeling.

Leith: 00:45:00
Yeah. So I think that's interesting, especially around the idea of tech as a medical device, right? So there are certainly defined implications where FDA would likely or potentially have some regulatory reach. By and large, I don't think that they should be children, the burden of primary federal engagement on policy or regulatory stances on AI broadly. And part of the reason I think that is, I think something that I mentioned earlier is that I get this sense, at least from much of the government's standpoint, that many of the examples frequently cited because they're the ones that have the greatest touch

Leith: 00:45:58
point with humankind is health care. So many of the political considerations that are driving the optics here are around health care. And inevitably, the FDA gets implicated in these things. And while they have a few novel areas where they will need to and have started to chime in, I think Dr. Caleb actually provided an interview, was it WebMD or MedPage, one of those earlier this week, looking at some of the implications for AI and the FDA. The other piece where I think that it shouldn't, well, I guess the added thought around if it's not just the FDA, then who, I think this is where Congress comes into play. And there needs to be a uniform buy-in or something that's more than just a fear driven,

Leith: 00:47:02
oh goodness, we need to do something about AI. There needs to be an intentional, thoughtful organization around next steps that has funding behind it. You know, our research agenda that informs a policy development, even lessons learned application from the EU and what can we be doing that the dance for best practices here in the U.S. And I know that the White House has taken steps to make that at least a step towards reality. But until the proof and the pudding being from Congress around it, I think that's going to be something that will continue to be a difficult issue to parse through for the FDA. Because the FBCA can't handle everything.

Hanh: 00:48:00
Now is AI further integrates into healthcare? The key question is, how do we ensure technology is primarily serving people? Well, AI can drive significant efficiencies and advancement, but there's a risk that it might be misused for exploited or profit, possibly affecting patient care negatively. We have policies and regulations guiding AI's ethical use, prioritizing patient welfare and preventing misuse. So we're moving towards safeguards, setting safeguards as required for ensuring AI acts as a force for good and doesn't widen the existing healthcare disparities. So doctor States, how do we ensure our policies prioritize people over profit and safeguarding these?

Leith: 00:48:58
That is a, okay, well, then that, so let's we can step back and take a look at the whole health system, right? And this, I think, gets back to an area where I believe that the vast majority of people in positions of decision-making authority and power over time have not been overtly out to create systems that created inequities, disparities, a greater likelihood of one group suffering versus another. But we are humans and we do things in certain ways and we don't necessarily do them consciously whether it's an implicit bias or there's some other driver that really creates a situation where once snowball is in motion, it just continues to pick up speed. So I think that that's the risk we run with AI, right?

Leith: 00:49:54
One thing I've said in the past to colleagues is, you know, AI has, through machine learning has, and the generative learning is, it has a capacity to reflect the best of us and the worst of us. And so much of it in its capacity to do good or bad is going to be found in the foundational elements of what it's learning from. And if we have processes in place that have propagated or perpetuated inequities and disparities, it's going to, despite our greatest efforts, find a way to reach those same conclusions to a greater degree, unfortunately. So with regards to the potential safeguards there, I mean, you know, effective governance doesn't come through just a series of rules, right?

Leith: 00:50:59
It has to come through the thoughtful application of trade-offs in what demonstrably provides value and where there's demonstrably a risk that's either acceptable or unacceptable based on the potential for good. And the maturation of AI and its further incorporation and extensive, you know, more extensive use by many other touch points across the health system needs to be couched in a series of administrative and engineering controls that allow for intentional adoption of what we would, I'm not going to call it a utilitarian good, but I think where it is able to drive towards the greatest, creating the greatest opportunity for good outcomes, right? Because when it comes down to it, all we can get people is the opportunity. All we can look for populations to do is have the opportunity.

Leith: 00:52:10
We can't necessarily manifest the good, right? I mean, there is an element of action and agency and ownership here for individuals and communities and for nations to do best with what they have. The other consideration I have here is, oh goodness, it left me. I hope it comes back to me because I thought it was going to be a good one. Let's go to the next question, maybe.

Hanh: 00:52:34
Sure, sure. No problem. Well, like you said, we hope that AI will not only enhance health care provision, but also spark radical change in how we approach health and well-being. So let's say looking to the future, what's your greatest hope or how AI can transform the health care system for the better?

Leith: 00:53:04
Oh, that's also a very tough question, but a really good and meaningful one, right? Because I firmly believe that if we just have a series of goals in mind based on what we view as possible, we ultimately don't get as far as we could have. Some of that is not believing in what we bring to the table. Some of that is not necessarily believing in the good that others bring to the table, but I think that when I look at hope, some people think of it as a unnecessary or ineffective way to approach problems, but I think it's really kind of the only way to approach a problem because it allows you to have the problem set based on what folks can do outside of your own self because I think that when it comes down to it, that's kind of what hope is. We can believe in ourselves a lot, but hope is something that looks outside of ourselves

Leith: 00:54:14
into others, right? And to other entities and to other ways of thinking into something that we have to release our ownership of and our own capacity to create good or change. So when I think of hope, I think of what we all can do together, right? So my hope is that when it comes down to it, this doesn't become a polarized issue, that it's not something that will be weaponized, that it's something that can be rallied around for what it is and not as a fear driven parallelization that just sees us sit by the wayside or wait for something else to happen that drives us to be reactive as opposed to proactive. That's the lesson that I think has been learned so often in healthcare and in public health is the inherent bad outcomes that result when we act out of reactive fear.

Leith: 00:55:22
Call it, we could look at the opioid crisis, opioid epidemic. We could look at things like how cannabis legislative efforts or scheduling efforts have been couched over time and who were on drugs. We can hope for the best in others and see ourselves as a partnership. By the example here I'm making, it's the federal and the state governments, right? Where we all have our inherent value and good, there's something we bring to it that the other does that we do not have and that the other does provide. We get to a much better reflection of what an appropriate steady state with effective governance looks like at the end of the day. That's my hope for AI.

Leith: 00:56:09
I know that's a little bit more broad and outside of the health spectrum, but I think that's the only way we get to a space where we effectively have a landscape that allows the health system and public health systems to mature in AI in a way that's healthy with governance and ethical considerations that really reflect the collective desire and meaningful pathway to go forward.

Hanh: 00:56:39
Thank you, thank you so much, Dr. States. Should AI be used in healthcare to draw transparency for consumers or does AI further complicate transparency based on each organization using AI differently, do transparency and AI correlate?

Leith: 00:57:01
So I think they have to correlate and I to be successful, I think that transparency is an absolute necessity to allow for adoption across a large swath of the population, right? Today we get to that critical mass as we might put it and I'm thinking of like the late adopters, the heart adopters. Some folks will obviously just jump headlong into this thing without any skepticism just because of the potential for good. But I do think that, you know, and we've seen this in, you know, Congress and we see it and they're reflected opinion polls that have come out or maybe even just the reflections that they comment on from some of their constituencies that they're, I think, absolutely as a need for transparency, if not to bring folks on board, but to allow for the continued effective

Leith: 00:58:03
growth and understanding of what AI tools, AI and form tools can be, because some are going to be quite limited in their AI ML utilization and some will be, you know, largely driven and have great impact based on those informed decisions that they're coming to. So as it relates then to kind of equity across, you know, the consumer space, I think that transparency is huge with regards to, you know, safeguards for consumers. So thinking of like the CFPB, the consumer, wait, CPFB, I'm messing up the acronym, but the consumer protections branch and even, you know, folks like the FCC, there are, you know, very clear considerations there that need to be adhered to and met and likely developed, because there's not a great capacity for policy in this space at the moment. And that's partly because we don't know what we're getting into, right?

Leith: 00:59:04
It's hard to create policy for something you don't understand.

Hanh: 00:59:16
So when we're talking about mental health care, we're wrenching into something very sensitive territory. And it's kind of an area where we need to tread carefully, especially when we're talking about bringing AI into the mix. So it's not just about getting the diagnosis or the treatment, right? It's also about making sure that we're respecting people's privacy and trust that they're putting into the system. So on top of that, we need to think about how this might change the dynamic between the person and their therapist or doctor. So I guess in your opinion, what are the key things that we need to keep in mind? Ethically, you know, when we're thinking about using AI and mental health care, what do we need to be careful giving the complex and the sensitive of this field?

Leith: 01:00:07
So first, let me apologize for the sleeping bulldog in the background if anybody heard a snore. Second, I think that, you know, it's interesting with regards to the mental health consideration specifically, right? And some of that, I think, is going to be evidenced. And maybe in a smaller part with regards to telehealth utilization for mental health delivery of care, that's the one area of telehealth utilization that is very clear in the data that, you know, there is a either there is parity with or there is security to the in-person mode of delivery for mental health care. And some of that can be because it allows for gradualization to decrease on stigma or think of LGBT populations that maybe are a little less willing to be seen in person because of fear for, you know, either in speech or stigma that they're feeling in the office, there is a, I think, an equal consideration around, you know,

Leith: 01:01:16
outside of the delivery of care for these routine touch points with mental health, whether that's, you know, just straight talk therapy or being part of group therapy sessions as part of a substance use program, there is the acute interventions like we were speaking to with regards to suicidality, prediction and intervention, and how that could be implicated ethically with regards to respecting an individual's autonomy. That also gets to, you know, what is another kind of mission creep issue of harm to others, right? And this is not necessarily the clinic touch point, but this is the other areas of life touch point that have intersections with mental health and behavior health, which is a very sticky issue that I'm quite concerned about. Because I have a feeling that we're going to make some mistakes before we see successes, and it would be much better obviously to be intentional, proactive, and develop a system with

Leith: 01:02:23
safeguards in place that is informed by best knowledge at the moment as opposed to waiting for something to go wrong, which is what I think we've seen with the way social media and these predictive practices have been leveraged for other touch points through social media, right? So whether it's targeted ads or, you know, misinformation, disinformation, there's a lot of potential for bad, and I have this going that it's going to equally be manifest before things get better. So that's those are my two concern areas there.

Hanh: 01:03:12
What practical steps can we, as individuals, take to ensure the responsible and save utilization of AI in our everyday lives?

Leith: 01:03:21
I think that the greatest capacity for us to do good around our current touch points with AI is in our contact with our devices, right? So the capacity to be aware of and to understand that that landscape is not, you know, something on, on equal footing, that we are in what I would call, you know, a more asymmetric landscape as it were. We aren't in the EU where we have GDPR protections where there is a bit more of a capacity for government or for other entities to bring folks that are accountable for those applications to a to a point of being held accountable for wrongdoing or withholding or mistransfer of personal data and use of that data, right? So that's the greatest space I would say. And while we have, you know, engagement with AI tools at the level of the health system, I don't believe at this point, that's where I would be, have my most care or concern. That said, I do think that we have

Leith: 01:04:37
obviously an increasing capacity for things to go wrong within those systems. And I think that it's partly due to the existing landscape of, you know, ransomware attacks, things that are already plaguing, you know, data, data systems and infrastructure and health systems. So that just lends itself to all the more need for cybersecurity, CIOs at health systems and institutions to be quite wary and interrogate with, you know, a great level of scrutiny the systems they bring into their institutions.

Hanh: 01:05:12
Let's dive into a topic that's really at the forefront of modern healthcare, personalization. So this term has become a bit of a buzzword across many sectors. But when it comes to healthcare, it's not just a passing trend. So we have unique bodies, health histories, unique health needs in our healthcare experience should reflect that individuality. But we find ourselves in an era where technology specifically AI, making personalized healthcare more attainable. So it has the potential to tailor treatment plans, predict health outcomes and even communicate health information in a way that resonates with unique patients. It's a powerful tool. It needs to be handled with care, balancing with personalization, with individual privacy and preferences. It's a challenge. And I guess we have to navigate effectively. So in this context, could you share your perspective on how AI can be used to make healthcare more personalized?

Hanh: 01:06:18
And then how can we improve patient experiences and outcomes?

Leith: 01:06:29
So, you know, it's funny. The whole area of customer experience, human experience. I mean, that on its own as a method to improve patient satisfaction, patient engagement, patient utilization of care and health outcomes is, you know, it's, I don't want to say that it's well established, but it's used in a variety of sectors, right? Not just health, right? And I think it's been done for a good effect, either with a variety of outcome metrics, whether that's the bottom line for something like, you know, IBM or some other provider of a customer interface. Could even call it epic, sirner, you know, they all have their capacity to leverage data gathered from those touch points with the customer and to inform that in a way that hopefully does more than just, you know, line pocketbooks. And I think for the, for the, the best majority, there's a focus on that in terms of creating good and workflow,

Leith: 01:07:38
for creating good and the backstops that allow providers to do their best work with the best information, right? Because, you know, providers, we are fallible. We have knowledge that goes out of date. We potentially will miss things based on exhaustion because of overwork, because of burnout. So there is some inherent good there that I think will be married well to support patient autonomy and in overall health. One thing that is of concern, I think is the way AI might drive and change the workforce landscape. And the reason I say that's important for patient experience and outcomes is because of the potential to impact diversity of the workforce, whether that's through the the manifestation of implicit bias that is already inherent in a hiring practice that allows for that to be steeped even further through, you know, the initial screen of applicants. They missed this buzz turn that's not necessarily used widely or there was

Leith: 01:08:54
something that, you know, it just went missed or went unregarded as a potential bias when the original algorithms are being developed by the team, by the AI team or the ML team. So I think that those are a couple considerations around customer experience and then the kind of that experience model in general that I think are important.

Hanh: 01:09:27
Now, as we integrate technology into healthcare, the way we work and the skills that we need are changing. And it's not just about creating or implementing the technology, it's also about preparing the workforce to use it effectively. And healthcare is multifaceted with professionals ranging from doctors, nurses, technicians, administrative staff and so forth. And each role might interact with AI differently. And the benefits of AI and healthcare are huge. To unlock these benefits, it's important that the workforce is adequately prepared to utilize these tools. So this involves not just the technical skills, but also understanding the ethical implications and the potential biases in AI, like we discussed, and also the ability to combine AI insights with professional judgment. So what steps could we take to get the healthcare professionals ready for this AI revolution and making sure that they're equipped

Hanh: 01:10:28
with the skills and understanding to make the most of AI?

Leith: 01:10:35
So this question always makes me chuckle because I remember when I, so I started off my medical career in the Navy as a medical core officer. And almost all of the notes I wrote in my first few years of practice were picker notes, which I subsequently had to transfer to, you know, an EMR or scan and upload. And there was nothing efficient about the process. And actually the first, you know, electronic medical record I use was something called CHCS, which was a dos-based format. And it's still in use today in the military. And I think, you know, so the things for me that comes to mind considering, you know, that that was just, you know, that wasn't that long ago, is the capacity for the workforce to change, right? The capacity to adapt and see themselves in this systems change. And that's where I think a lot of the drop-off comes in the way these transitions are handled. And for folks that are on the call that are engaged

Leith: 01:11:43
and have experience with these EMR EHR transitions, a lot of the times things that go off the rails is that the team bringing in the EHR is a group of well-meaning data scientists or informaticians that hasn't necessarily been adequately informed by all provider groups, right? If you build it based on making doctors happy, the nurses are going to be unhappy. The text will be unhappy. The EMS folks will be unhappy. Somebody is going to be some bluser always if you have one group always winning 100%. So, allowing for a mutual buy-in and bringing folks along slowly is, I think, abundantly important. And giving them the time to see themselves in the change, right? To see that there's some worth in this for them. And that's just motivational interviewing. That's just behavior change, observations in general. That's for anything, right? If you try to pull people along with a stick, I mean, they're going to buck and push back. And if they're unionized, well then

Leith: 01:13:00
you're dead in the water, right? So, there are a lot of, I think, very sensitive considerations that go into making a workforce proficient in an area that we're asking them to change to. So, the existing workforce, I think those are some of the considerations there. For the developing workforce, for the pipelines, I think that there's an absolute need to increase the curriculum requirements, the training requirements. And I'm not saying if there's anybody from like ACGME WAMC on this call. I'm not saying add more curriculum requirements that just add checkboxes to getting people through the pipeline and training. I think there need to be cross-cutting considerations around where there could be augments in text for existing touch points in curriculum that are helpful to improve competency, to improve comfort with these discussions. And then actually having the capacity to relay that information to patients in a way that builds them up and creates a sense

Leith: 01:14:16
of empowerment instead of fear. That's always the problem of delivering something in doctor speak or in provider speak and clinician speak rather than in plain language that makes sense. So, I think those are some of the more, I guess, frequent observations and conversations I have with colleagues on my side.

Hanh: 01:14:41
Is there harnessing AI to improve and optimize alternative treatment suggestions? There are so many ways to harness data information breaking down the topic deliverables could help everyone better navigate considerations and development of operational framework, if you will. This is from Linda. Could you take that one?

Leith: 01:15:15
Sure. Well, I'll do my best with it. Thank you, Linda, for the question. So, you know, alternative treatment options are always a sticky area, right? In large part, there are a few considerations that might be germane care. So as a first response to that, what I think is the spirit of the question, I'm not aware of any available tailored platform that would inform those types of discussions with regards to an alternative. So, something outside of, you know, the pure evidence base, right? What I do think has started to happen in a variety of spaces. And I might use the example of traumatic brain injury. That's an area that I've been fortunate to work with over the past year. And applying the lessons learned from the National Research Action Plan, which was a research initiative that occurred over the past 11 years and started with the Obama administration. And the capacity to take all that knowledge learned from DOD,

Leith: 01:16:34
from DEA, from intramural and extramural research at all levels across basic science, translational science, implementation science around what does and does not work around characterization, diagnostics, treatment, and long-term disposition. There's great capacity to leverage AI at unique touch points there, right? So, one would be the development of diagnostics. So, potentially looking at biomarkers as in a appropriate way to drive down beyond what historically has been, you know, a concussion or M-T-B-I, T-B-I, severe T-B-I, classification scheme that might be based on imaging and some, you know, clinical signs and symptoms, actually having something that would allow for a, you know, serum plasma-based biomarker evaluation, similar to something like troponins, right? So, look at severity of MI or just an embarked in other types of tissue and trend that over time. And then looking at the capacity

Leith: 01:17:41
for, you know, changing the classification scheme to better reflect the actuality of the increased knowledge from pathophys and informing what the pathology is involved with the actual biochemistry of, you know, the pathways and implicated in the development and persistence of T-B-I, and maybe the differential application of nuanced types of pathways that are in different age groups. So, you know, with children, with adolescents, and then looking at aging populations and their capacity to bounce back from T-B-I, and then looking at the capacity for the distillation of lessons learned from large volume of data sets, from like, from patient, from patient records in the VA, looking at over three million records, right, to distill some lessons learned that, oh, great, I'm seeing some deep assures mentioned here. It's absolutely, yeah, absolutely of what I'm speaking to is, you know, the capacity to take what previously was unused data or

Leith: 01:18:57
previously was thought not impossible and develop these constructs and new frameworks that actually can do good to reframe the way an entire disease state is studied, right? So, T-B-I is no longer in acute injury, right? It's a chronic disease process. It's something that is with you across the lifespan. And while there are improving capacity for diagnosis, for supportive care management, the last thing I think, and this might be an interesting one to finish on, is around that capacity to develop treatments at a more rapid pace based on high throughput screening that's leveraged by AML-formed platforms and the capacity to say in five to ten years we will have a treatment that's tailored for T-B-I, which will help impact the downstream implications for, you know, quality of life, for years of productive life lost, for the implications of a T-B-I to an aging population, right? Because we are aging as a country. So, I think that there's a numerous

Leith: 01:20:11
variety of these applications. And I just wanted to pull T-B-I as an example, who's one that I've been working with and getting excited about. Hopefully that answers a little bit of the question.

Hanh: 01:20:21
Thank you so much, gosh. Thank you for the folks that are here asking these great questions and thank you so much, Dr. States. I know you made the time to be here and participate. I appreciate your time so much. Do you have anything else that you would like to add before I close out, Dr. States?

Leith: 01:20:42
The only thing I might say is a plug for folks that might be attending the AWS Summit next week. If you are attending on day two, I'll be there and I look forward to engaging with any of you that would like to chat.

Hanh: 01:20:56
Great, great. Thank you. So, as we ramp up, we reflect on the transformative potential of AI and healthcare from battling chronic diseases to addressing health inequalities. We've also discussed the ethical regulatory implications of integrating AI tools like Chatbot. So, the path forward involving a balance act which with care and foresight, we can ensure humanity remains as central to this technological advancement. And remember, this is a stepping stone and is an ongoing dialogue about AI and all of its possibilities. And so, thank you so much for joining us. And until next time, stay curious and continue innovating. Take care.

00:00:10
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Boomer Living Broadcast. I'm your host, Hanh Brown, a fellow baby boomer, and I'm here to guide you through the ever-evolving world of technology. Well, as a tech enthusiast, I've always closely followed the rise of artificial intelligence and how it's changing our lives, including entrepreneurship. Today, we will delve into a topic

00:00:31
that I'm truly excited about the role of ChatGPT, AI in empowering baby boomer entrepreneurs. Yes, you heard it right? AI isn't just for Gen Z or millennials. So buckle up as we unpack this phenomenal development. Before we dive in, I'd like to thank all of our listeners for encouraging feedback and engagement on our last episode.

00:00:57
So it was such a pleasure to see our listeners sharing their digital success stories. So now, if you're new to our show, this is where we make technology relatable and useful for our seasoned warriors. So today's podcast is brought to you by our sponsor InOneApp, a cutting-edge platform that uses AI to power its all-in-one sales and marketing solution.

00:01:32
It's tailored to help businesses connect and address the needs of senior consumers in the most effective way possible. With InOneApp, our mission is to offer solutions that resolve the unique challenges businesses face when engaging with senior markets. With InOneApp, our mission is to offer solutions that resolve the unique challenges businesses face

00:01:53
when engaging with the senior market. So let's dive into the talk about AI and ChatGPT. Well, you might be thinking, what's this fancy name all about? Well, picture a chatbot. And kick it up several notches. That's ChatGPT for you. It's like your new best friend who's not just an incredible conversationalist,

00:02:18
but also an excellent writer. Now, does that sound fascinating, pal, to have? Well, here's one thing about ChatGPT. It's been trained on a massive amount of internet text, soaking up the nuances, the rhythms, and the structures of human language. So, what this means is that it gives it an uncanny ability to mimic us, to respond

00:02:41
in ways that feel, well, remarkably human. It's like a Swiss army knife of conversation, ready to handle anything you throw at it. Let's talk about how this piece of tech goes beyond just that. Imagine having a scribe at your side waiting to chat down your thoughts. Picture a dedicated assistant who's ready and waiting 24/7, and

00:03:06
envision a brainstorming partner that never runs out of ideas. Well, that's a kind of multipurpose tool that we're looking at with ChatGPT. Now, you might be asking, what's the secret sauce? Well, the technology under the hood is what really brings this AI to life. It's called a transformer model, which is basically a wiz kid when

00:03:28
it comes to understanding the context of words and sentences. Well, it can whip up responses that make sense and are relevant to the conversation at hand, and it gets better. ChatGPT learns as it interacts. It's always picking up new tricks, getting sharper, and fine-tuning its understanding of our, well, so-called complex human language.

00:03:52
Well, think of ChatGPT as a peak into the future, a testament of how technology and language can come together to change the way that we communicate and interact with machines. So, it's more than just a computer program, it's a game changer. Well, it's rooted in machine learning, a subfield of artificial intelligence where the machine learns patterns from data.

00:04:16
In the case of ChatGPT the data comes from a large chunk of the internet. Imagine having a book club discussion with someone who has read almost everything there is to read from classics to modern bestsellers and even, and everything in between. That's kind of what conversing with ChatGPT feels like. But beyond that, ChatGPT can

00:04:36
also help with a range of tasks, such as drafting emails, writing articles, and brainstorming ideas. It can tailor its language based on the input it's given. So for instance, if you ask it a question in a formal tone, it will respond likewise. If you're more casual, it will match that too.

00:04:58
You may be wondering if ChatGPT can understand what it's saying or doing. Well, the simple answer is no. It doesn't have beliefs, thoughts, or emotions. It doesn't understand the text in the way that we do. Its responses are based on patterns it has learned from the vast amount of data it was trained on.

00:05:16
In other words, it's predicting what should come next based on its training and the input you provided. It's important to remember that while ChatGPT is a powerful tool, it's just that, a tool. It doesn't replace human creativity, judgment, or expertise. It's here to assist and augment our abilities, not substitute them.

00:05:38
Think of it as a superpower typewriter that responds to your prompts and needs. Also, it's worth noting that while it has been trained on a broad data set, it doesn't know specifics about which documents were part of its training set or any personal information unless explicitly provided during the conversation. So it's crucial when considering privacy and confidentiality.

00:06:03
So, ChatGPT is like a parrot that can mimic human-like conversation based on what it has learned. It can't think or feel, but it's incredibly adept at making it seem like it can. It's an AI-powered simulation of human conversation, and when used effectively, it can be a game changer, especially for entrepreneurs looking to get the

00:06:26
most out of their time and resources. Entrepreneurship is not a walk in the park. It is exciting, yet challenging journey that involves juggling multiple responsibilities and tasks. Often you find yourself doing many roles from marketing to sales to customer service, and of course strategic planning. It's like being a one man, one

00:06:56
woman orchestra, trying to hit the perfect note on every instrument. What if I told you that you could have an assistant to help fine-tune your performance? Well, that's where ChatGPT comes in. It can be your intelligent assistant helping you across multiple aspects of your business, working tirelessly to provide you

00:07:19
with the support that you need. So let's take a closer look on how you can incorporate ChatGPT into your business routine. One of the key areas where ChatGPT can add tremendous value is content creation, whether it's crafting compelling copy of your website, drafting newsletter, or email campaigns, or even helping you articulate your business strategy

00:07:41
in a concise and effective manner. ChatGPT can help. It's like having a professional writer at your fingertips ready to assist you in producing high quality content. And then there's a brainstorming phase, an integral part of any business development. Whether you're planning a new product, devising a marketing strategy, or pondering over

00:07:59
potential business development, ChatGPT can help spark creativity. You can bounce ideas off of it. And it can provide a multitude of perspectives and options based on the information you provide. It's like having a brainstorming partner who's always available and never tires. Customer service is another area where ChatGPT can add significant value.

00:08:24
As a business owner, you want to provide prompt and effective responses to your customers. This can be time-consuming. ChatGPT can handle the routine quarries, freeing up your time to focus on complex issues, strategic tasks, or simply to catch a breather. So it can interact with customers, answering their quarries in

00:08:45
a human-like manner, ensuring they feel heard and valued. Well, that's not all from administrative tasks such as scheduling or reminders, to more complex tasks like data analysis and report writing, ChatGPT can be a valuable asset. The AI's ability to comprehend instructions and produce relevant, articulate, and human-like text makes

00:09:06
it incredibly versatile and useful for a broad range of business tasks. So while ChatGPT can do a lot, it's important to remember that it's not a magic bullet. It's a tool designed to assist and amplify your capabilities. Like any other tool, its effectiveness largely depends on how well you use it. So, in a nutshell, integrating ChatGPT

00:09:30
into your business operations can help streamline processes, ignite creativity, improve customer service, and ultimately provide more room for strategic planning and execution. So, in this segment, we're going to turn on the spotlight onto the few baby boomer entrepreneurs who's embraced ChatGPT and integrated into their businesses with remarkable results.

00:10:06
There's no better way to illustrate the power and the potential of ChatGPT than to share some real-world success stories. So, let's start with John. John owned a quaint bookstore in his local town. Known for its handpicked selection of books and Cozy Reading Corner, it was a beloved spot for book lovers. But with the digital revolution, John

00:10:26
realized that his bookstore needed an online presence to reach more readers. However, he struggled with the idea of creating an engaging online platform. Well, that's when he discovered ChatGPT. With the AI at his fingertips, he began to craft his website. He used ChatGPT to write captivating descriptions for his book collection, compelling

00:10:49
newsletters, and engaging blog posts. He even set up a ChatGPT-enabled chat box to answer custom inquiries online, replicating the personalized servers his customers experience in the store. Well, the result was transformative. His online bookstore became a hit. It extended the reach of his business attracting readers from across the country, and by blending his

00:11:14
expertise with AI capabilities, John transformed his local bookstore into a thriving online business. Our next success story is Linda, a seasoned business consultant. Linda's work involves creating detailed business plans for her clients, a process that can be very time-consuming and repetitive. The introduction of ChatGPT into

00:11:36
her workflow changed all that. She began to use ChatGPT to generate customized business plan templates. This saved her hours of work. But more importantly, it allowed her to provide each client with a highly tailored plan. She also used ChatGPT to brainstorm new strategies, gaining different perspectives and ideas that she

00:11:57
could present to her clients. While ChatGPT not only amplified her productivity, it also added a new dimension of creativity to her consultancy. Linda found that with ChatGPT, she had more time to focus on complex client issues and strategic planning. She's now able to serve more clients without compromising on quality, and

00:12:21
her clients appreciate the speed and creativity she brings to the table. It's all a win-win situation. So John and Linda's stories are just two examples of how ChatGPT can reshape the way baby boomer entrepreneurs operate. These aren't tech gurus or AI specialists. They're people just like you who saw the potential in AI and used it to enrich their businesses.

00:12:45
So the key takeaway from these stories is that AI, like ChatGPT is not only for the tech-savvy, millennials or big corporations. It's a powerful tool that entrepreneurs of all ages and backgrounds can utilize. It's not about replacing human-to-human touch in business, but enhancing it, amplifying our capabilities, and helping us work smarter, not harder.

00:13:19
So, it's time to do a reality check. We talked at length about the benefits and successes of using ChatGPT, but let's address some of the challenges you might face when adapting to new technologies like this because, well, let's be honest, it can seem a little daunting at first. Well, the first thing that might pop up in your mind is the learning curve. Yes, it's a new tool and it may

00:13:40
require some time and patience to master, but don't let that deter you. Think of it like learning a new instrument or a new language. It might feel alien in the beginning, but with consistent practice, it becomes second nature. And the beauty of ChatGPT is it's remarkably user-friendly. You don't need to be a tech wizard

00:14:03
to use it Start with simple tasks. Ask it to write an email or a social media post. Use it to brainstorm ideas with your next business meetings. As you grow more comfortable, you can explore its more advanced capabilities. In fact, there are numerous resources available to help you master ChatGPT,

00:14:25
including detailed user guides, tutorials, and online communities of ChatGPT users. You can leverage these resources to learn at your own pace, and ask lots of questions and get real-time from others who have been using ChatGPT for a while. And you can certainly reach out to us. And we have a team that can assist you. Another concern that often

00:14:45
arises when adapting to new technology is data privacy. Well, in the digital age, protecting your personal and business data is paramount. Well, the good news is OpenAI understands this. They've implemented robust data usage policies to ensure your interactions with ChatGPT are private and secure. And in the end, it's all

00:15:07
about striking a balance. Embracing new technology doesn't mean disregarding legitimate concerns. It's about educating yourselves, taking informed decisions, and leveraging these tools to our advantage while maintaining our privacy and security. Remember, every challenge that you overcome in the adoption of new technology, like ChatGPT

00:15:28
is an opportunity for growth. It's a step towards becoming more adaptable, more efficient, and ultimately more successful in your entrepreneurial journey. Well, as we move into the final segment of our episode today, let's take a moment to gaze into the future, a future where AI and entrepreneurship continues to converge, opening

00:16:00
up unprecedented possibilities. As we know, change is the only constant, and in the realm of technology, this change is exponential. As AI capabilities like those of ChatGPT continues to grow, we can anticipate a considerable expansion of automation and improved efficiency in various business processes. From detailed business analytics

00:16:28
that can provide actionable insights to creating personalized customer interactions, the potential uses are indeed mind-boggling. Imagine a scenario where ChatGPT could provide detailed business forecasts based on your company's historical data, current market trends, and industry benchmarks. Or, consider a case where AI-powered customer service can not only

00:16:51
respond to customer queries, but also anticipate customer needs based on their previous interactions and preferences. This could transform customer experience, loyalty, and ultimately your business success. The advent of AI is not about devaluing human input in business. It's quite the contrary. AI is about augmenting human potential.

00:17:16
It's about offloading repetitive, mundane tasks to intelligent machines, freeing up time and mental space for humans to do what they do best, innovating, strategizing, creating, and connecting on a deeper level. So AI doesn't replace the human touch but amplifies it. It doesn't remove the need for human intelligence but rather allows us to

00:17:41
focus our intelligence on tasks that truly require our unique human capabilities, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, and creative problem-solving. As baby boomer entrepreneurs, it's so important to understand and embrace these technological advancements, and by doing so, you're not only staying relevant in the ever-evolving business landscape but also empowering yourself

00:18:06
with the tools to optimize your businesses, enhance your services, and create more value to your customers. So, as we look ahead, the future of AI and entrepreneurship is one of collaboration and mutual growth. It's about intertwining the best human potential with the capabilities of artificial intelligence to create a world of business that is efficient,

00:18:31
innovative, and above all, human-centric. So, I'm excited for the future and I invite you to be a part of it. So, let's embrace the power of AI like ChatGPT, and see where this extraordinary journey takes us. So, in this podcast, we're delighted to highlight our sponsor InOneApp, a remarkable AI-powered integrated sales and marketing platform.

00:18:54
Its unique design allows businesses to engage with senior consumers with precision and understanding. Leveraging the power of InOneApp, we're helping businesses navigate the challenges they face when connecting with the senior demographic. So, throughout this episode, I encourage you to ponder on how AI can help your entrepreneurial journey.

00:19:27
And hey, don't forget to share your thoughts with us and social media platforms using #BoomerLivingBroadcast. And as we wrap up, I wanna thank you so much, our amazing listeners. Your curiosity fuels our show. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review our podcast on your favorite platform.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Hi, I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast, and the founder of theAging.AI. We deliver relevant topics for older adults and explore cutting-edge technologies like AI, automation, and ChatGPT in a realm of aging. Well, in this digital age, revolutionary technologies like OpenAI, ChatGPT, Neuralink, Bard, AGI, which is an artificial general intelligence in NVIDIA, DeepMine, CRISPR, Quantum Computing, and various autopilot systems are reshaping our world. These incredible innovations are pushing human potential to new heights, making science fiction a reality. So as AI becomes an integral part of our lives, it offers remarkable opportunities for growth,

Hanh: 00:01:06
communication, and problem solving. Collaboration between major companies and creative startups fuels technological renaissance, opening doors to previously unimagined possibilities. So today, we're going to explore the captivating realm of AI and unravel the mysteries of our future. As we forge ahead, it's important to consider the potential implications of these powerful technologies. Prominent tech figures like Elon Musk and Steve Wozniak have signed an open letter advocating for a six-month pause in AI systems more powerful than ChatGPT-4. They argue that AI development should ensure positive effects in manageable risks.

Hanh: 00:01:52
The letter encourages collaboration between AI developers and policy makers to create AI governance systems, regulatory authorities, and safety research funding. Well, there are concerns about risks associated with mediocre AI, such as fishing and online fraud, as well as the potential abuse of large language models by criminals and terrorists. The U.S. government is preparing for an AI antitrust fight to prevent companies like Google, Microsoft, OpenAI, from monopolizing AI technology. Well, public opinion and pausing AI development is split. Some view it as naive or slowing down front runners, while others argue it allows time to better understand AI systems and address ethical concerns. GPT-4 in AI system presents arguments for and against halting the growth of large language

Hanh: 00:02:50
models. Pausing would help fix unexpected problems, freeze AI safety, deepen our understanding of AI, and allow time for public opinions and policy making. However, continuing can bring economic gains, technological advances, global competitiveness, and societal benefits, while managing risk through regulation and improve AI safety research. So basically, if you're going to face powerful AI systems, you need to be prepared with equally advanced AI capabilities. Various organizations and governments are in progress to establish AI ethics committees and guidelines to ensure responsible AI development and deployment. Still, concerns remain about the ability to enforce these rules.

Hanh: 00:03:43
Experts suggest global collaboration between governments, AI developers, and stakeholders to create shared safety standards. Well, AI has advanced in fields like healthcare, education, and climate change. Stopping AI development could slow progress affecting global growth, instead, we should manage the risk and the use of AI for good. Teaching the public and workforce about AI is so important. It helps people make informed decisions about AI use and prepares them for job market changes. Encouraging AI literacy lets everyone join the conversation on governance and development. So in light of this, I'm excited to discuss and introduce Senior Care GPT in the coming months.

Hanh: 00:04:32
To stay up to date and learn more about this, follow me on LinkedIn and to sign up, simply fill out the form in the comments below. We're looking forward to delivering this valuable service to you soon. So in this presentation, I will explore the multifaceted impact of AI, particularly GPT 4, and Senior Care and Senior Living. We will discuss how AI technologies are transforming various aspects of Senior Care, ensuring a more personalized and innovative approach to Senior Living. First, we will delve into the impact of AI and older adults and long-term care in Senior Living with GPT-4. We'll explore how these technologies are revolutionizing Senior Assistance and Independence Living,

Hanh: 00:05:18
and their potential to improve the overall quality of life for seniors. Next, we'll examine the intersection of GPT-4, AI and Senior Living for age, friendly solutions. By analyzing the power of GPT-4 and language models for Senior Care, Innovation and Wellness, we will understand how generative AI can create targeted solutions to address the unique needs of the elderly. As we discuss AI personalizing elder care, with GPT-4 and machine learning, we'll also touch upon the transformation of retirement communities. AI-powered senior housing is becoming a reality, with GPT-4 and machine learning providing a foundation for a new wave of innovative Senior Living experiences.

Hanh: 00:06:07
Well, furthermore, aging and AI go hand in hand, with GPT-4 and machine learning elevating Senior Living experiences, we'll delve into the ways these technologies can enhance senior's quality of life, from facilitating social connections to providing personalized care. With the rise of AI in Senior Living, we'll also investigate the impact of GPT-4 and machine learning and sales and marketing strategies within the industry, and by harnessing the power of AI, senior living communities can develop smarter sales and marketing approaches that cater to the evolving needs of the aging population. So our presentation will cover a transformative influence of AI in GPT-4 on various aspects of senior living, from personalized senior care to development of age-friendly solutions, and the revolution of sales and marketing strategies.

Hanh: 00:07:04
Through this discussion, we hope to shed light on the potential of AI to significantly improve the lives of older adults, ensuring they receive the care and support they deserve. Well, in the coming segment, I will present a chart outlining the 10 subjects we touch upon. For every topic, I'll delve deeper, providing further explanation and illustrating their application with examples. Topic 1. The impact of AI on older adults and long-term care in Senior Living, with GPT-4. Well, as a global population ages, the demand for innovative senior living solutions grows. GPT-4, the latest iteration of open AI's generative pre-trained transformer, is revolutionizing

Hanh: 00:07:56
senior care. Well, let's explore AI's impact on older adults and long-term care, focusing on GPT-4 is reshaping the future of senior living. According to the National Institute of Health and the World Health Organization, governments and care organizations worldwide recognize the potential of AI technologies like GPT 4 to improve older adults' quality of life. So consequently, new policies and strategies are being developed to facilitate AI adoption in senior care, addressing challenges such as staff shortages, health care costs, and personalized care. The cause of long-term care is a growing concern, with nearly 2 billion people expected to

Hanh: 00:08:41
be aged 60 or older by 2050. AI technologies like GPT-4 can streamline care processes, reduce administrative burdens, and improve care delivery efficiency, resulting in cost savings for providers and a more affordable experience for seniors. GPT-4 offers various applications in long-term care facilities, automating routine tasks like appointment setting, medication reminders, and health monitoring. It also generates personalized content for cognitive stimulation, mental wellness, and therapy, enhancing seniors overall well-being. Social isolation and loneliness are significant concerns among older adults. GPT-4 minigates these risks by fostering social connections to AI-generated conversations

Hanh: 00:09:34
and interactions, reducing the feelings of isolation and improving emotional well-being. Health monitoring for seniors becomes more accurate and proactive with AI. GPT-4 can be integrated with wearable devices and sensors to track vital signs and physical activity. AI-driven algorithms identify potential health risks in alert caregivers or medical professionals ensuring timely intervention and better health outcomes. Long-term care facilities often face staff shortages and high-turn overrate. GPT-4 supports staff by automating repetitive tasks, providing accurate information, and offering guidance on best practices, allowing the care staff to dedicate more time on personalized care.

Hanh: 00:10:27
Every senior has unique needs and health conditions. GPT-4 machine learning algorithms analyze individual data to provide tailored care plans. Ensuring seniors receive the most appropriate care. AI-generated insights help care providers make informed decisions and adapt care plans as seniors need evolve. One primary goal of senior care is to enable older adults to maintain independence. GPT-4 and other AI technologies provide valuable support, helping seniors manage daily activities and offering personalized guidance on exercise and nutrition, allowing seniors to age in place more comfortably. Now ethical concerns surrounding AI use in the elbow care must be addressed.

Hanh: 00:11:15
Learning issues like data privacy, informed consent, and algorithmic biases. Care providers and technology developers must prioritize transparency, accountability, and diverse perspectives in the design and development process. GPT-4 and AI technologies are poised to transform senior living and long-term care. Addressing challenges like affordability, staff shortages, and personalized care, AI-driven solutions can significantly enhance aging adults' quality of life. However, ethical considerations must be emphasized, ensuring that technologies respect older adults' dignity, autonomy, and privacy, creating a more compassionate, efficient, and inclusive future for senior care. Here are some questions for the audience.

Hanh: 00:12:07
Let us know in the comments how can AI make senior care both affordable and high quality? And how can AI improve senior's mental health while respecting privacy? Also, join our GPT-4 senior consumer marketing innovators group for a tailored experience. Connect with fellow AI enthusiasts. Exchange insights and learn how GPT-4 can enhance your senior targeted marketing strategies. No matter if you are B to B or B to C, we've got to cover it. So please fill out the form in the comments below. Topic 2. The intersection of GPT-4 AI and senior living for age-friendly solutions. Identify age-friendly AI design principles when creating AI solutions for senior living.

Hanh: 00:13:04
You should focus on the universal design principles that prioritize inclusivity and usability for all ages and abilities. This includes designing AI interfaces that consider senior's preferences and limitations, such as large fonts and clear visuals. As an example, you can develop a wearable AI device with an adjustable strap and easy to read display for seniors with arthritis and vision impairment, or an AI-powered medication reminder system that uses clear audio alerts and visual cues to ensure proper dosage and timing. Addressing accessibility and usability challenges for seniors when developing AI solution for seniors, it's important to accommodate cognitive decline, memory loss, and difficulty learning

Hanh: 00:13:54
new skills. Creating multiple interaction methods such as voice commands, touch controls, and simple text inputs can cater to seniors with varying abilities. For instance, you might create an AI-based home automation system that allows seniors to control lighting, temperature, and appliances to voice commands or a virtual reality rehabilitation program with adjustable difficulty levels and guided exercises to accommodate seniors with limited mobility. Incorporating senior perspectives in AI development? Well, to create truly effective AI solutions for seniors, you should involve them in the development process.

Hanh: 00:14:39
This can be done to focus groups, user testing sessions, and interviews to gather valuable insights and address their preferences and pain points. Obviously seeking feedback from senior consumers can help you improve and tailor AI solutions to their needs. Well, for example, you could develop a ride sharing app that incorporates seniors feedback to simplify the booking process and ensure the availability of accessible vehicles, or a virtual reality travel platform that takes seniors input into account to create experiences that cater to their interests and comfort levels. Saving privacy and security in AI solutions? Well, safeguarding seniors' personal information is so important to maintaining their trust

Hanh: 00:15:28
in AI systems. You should implement robust data protection measures and ensure compliance with relevant privacy regulations such as GDPR and HIPAA. Well examples of secure AI solutions include an AI-powered health monitoring system with end-to-end encryption to protect seniors' medical data or a voice-activated personal assistant that requires user authentication before accessing sensitive information or performing financial transactions, adapting GPT-4 for senior specific applications. Well, you can customize GPT-4's natural language processing capabilities to better understand and respond to seniors' communication patterns and preferences. Developing GPT-4-powered applications that address seniors' unique needs and challenges

Hanh: 00:16:22
such as social isolation and healthcare management is so important. Well, examples include GPT-4-powered chatbot that offers companionship and conversation tailored to seniors' interests and life experiences, or AI-driven meal planning and grocery shopping assistance that considers seniors' dietary restrictions and nutritional needs, collaborating with gerontologists and technologists. Well, establish and interdisciplinary teams of experts to develop AI solutions that address both physical and cognitive aspects of aging. Ensure that AI-driven innovations are backed by gerontological research and best practices. Well, for example, consider collaborative projects between gerontologists and AI developers to create virtual cognitive training platforms for seniors to maintain and improve brain health.

Hanh: 00:17:16
Another example could be an AI-in-hand fault detection and prevention systems developed with input from gerontologists to reduce the risk of injuries in senior living communities. AI-driven senior wellness and prevention program. Well, leveraging AI technologies can promote healthy aging through personalized exercise routines, diet recommendations, and mental wellness activities. Utilize AI to analyze seniors' health data and identify potential risks or areas for improvement. Well, for example, consider developing an AI-powered fitness app that generates customized workout plans for seniors based on their physical abilities and health goals or an AI-driven sleep tracker and analysis tool that offers recommendations to improve sleep quality and overall well-being for seniors while combating ageism to inclusive AI design.

Hanh: 00:18:17
Educate AI developers on the importance of inclusivity and the dangers of ageism in technology development. Ensure that AI solutions do not perpetuate stereotype or biases against older adult by using diverse training data and avoiding ageist language. Promote positive portrayals of aging and the capabilities of seniors in AI-generated content, such as virtual assistants and chatbath, include age-friendly design principles in the development of AI solutions to create a more inclusive environment for all users regardless of age, supporting caregivers with AI enhanced tools. Develop AI-driven applications that help caregivers manage their schedules, automate administrative tasks, and coordinate appointments, allowing them to focus on providing direct care.

Hanh: 00:19:16
Implement AI-powered monitoring systems that track seniors' health and well-being, alerting caregivers to potential issues and reducing the likelihood of medical emergencies. Provide AI-assisted training and educational resources for caregivers, helping them stay informed about best practices in new developments in senior care. Facilitate communication and collaboration among caregivers, seniors and their families to AI-powered platforms that enable real-time update in virtual meetings, evaluating the effectiveness of AI solutions in senior living. Well, conduct rigorous user testing and gather feedback from seniors, caregivers and gerontologists to ensure that AI solutions effectively address the needs of the target audience, measure the impact of AI-driven technologies and seniors' quality of life,

Hanh: 00:20:09
independence, and mental and physical health to quantitative and qualitative assessments. We'll monitor the adoption rates in satisfaction levels of seniors and caregivers using AI enhanced tools to identify areas of improvement and address any barriers to adoption. Now, remember to collaborate with gerontologists, technologies, and policymakers to develop standardized evaluation frameworks and guidelines for assessing the effectiveness and safety of AI solutions in a senior care space. Network with like-minded AI enthusiasts, share insights, and explore how GPT-4 can amplify your senior center marketing efforts. Whether you focus on B2B or B2C, we cover both. I'd like to walk you through the steps for a demo using OpenAI's GPT-4's language model. This demo will require some basic knowledge of Python programming,

Hanh: 00:21:11
but I'll explain each step in the detail so that even non-developers can follow along. So first, you'll need to set up a Python environment on your computer. And to do this, you need to make sure that you have Python and some necessary libraries installed. One library you need is the Request Library, which allows you to make the HTTP request to the OpenAI's API. Next, you need to authenticate with the OpenAI's API by obtaining an API key from the website. This key is new-need to you and allows you to access your language model securely. You need to make sure you store this key securely so that nobody else can access it. So it's time to create a Python script that sends a user-provided text prompt to the OpenAI's API and displays the response. Import the Google Texture Speech in OpenAI's libraries for Python, Generate, and Import your API keys for Google Texture Speech in OpenAI

Hanh: 00:22:17
create the response function to send prompt requests to OpenAI and create an array of prompts. Now, create a loop to cycle through the prompts convert and response from OpenAI to speech by sending the response text to Google Texture Speech, create an MP3 and play run your Python script. So we as OpenAI, what types of senior living options are available and which one is best suited for my loved ones needs. The response from OpenAI is then played back. Senior living options include independent living, assisted living, memory care, and skilled nursing. The best option for your loved one will depend on their specific needs. Independent living is best suited for those who are independent and in good health. Assisted living is best for those who need help with activities of daily living. Memory care is best for those with memory and cognitive impairments, and skilled nursing is best for those

Hanh: 00:23:15
who need advanced medical care. Ultimately, it is important to assess your loved one's individual situation and needs before selecting the best senior living option for them. We as OpenAI, what is the cost of senior living and what is the financial assistance options are available to help cover the expenses. The cost of senior living varies depending on the type of care and the location. For instance, the average cost of assisted living is around $4,000 a month. Financial assistance options may include long-term care insurance, veterans benefits, Medicaid, and reverse mortgages. In addition, many communities offer sliding scale fees based on income, and some offer discounts for individuals who are able to pay in advance.

Hanh: 00:24:04
We ask OpenAI, how does the senior living community ensure the safety, security, and well-being of its residents?

AI: 00:24:11
The senior living community ensures the safety, security, and well-being of its residents by implementing a variety of measures such as 24-hour security, emergency call systems, and regular wellness checks. Residents are also offered a range of activities and services designed to enhance their quality of life and keep them engaged, including physical activities and social events. All staff members are thoroughly vetted and trained in the proper protocols for providing care and safety to residents. The community also works closely with families and health care providers to ensure that residents' needs are met.

Hanh: 00:24:54
We also ask OpenAI what amenities, services, and activities are offered at the senior living community to enhance resident's quality of life?

AI: 00:24:59
The senior living community offers a variety of amenities and services to enhance the quality of life of its residents. These include access to a variety of social and recreational activities such as yoga, art classes, cooking classes, and more. Additionally, there are on-site amenities such as a fitness center, library, and swimming pool. Residents also have access to services such as transportation, laundry, and housekeeping, and meal delivery. The community also provides 24-hour security, medical care, and other special services to ensure the safety and well-being of its residents.

Hanh: 00:25:39
We ask OpenAI what is the process for transitioning to senior living community and how will the staff support my loved one during the move and adjust me period?

AI: 00:25:51
The process for transitioning to a senior living community typically starts with a tour of the facility. During the tour, staff will help explain the different levels of care available and discuss any applicable fees. After a decision has been made to move in, the staff will help make a plan for the move ensuring that all necessary items are taken care of. During the move and adjustment period, the staff will be available to answer any questions and provide support in the new environment. They will also help connect your loved one with any services they may need, as well as activities and amenities to help them feel at home.

Hanh: 00:26:31
So if you want to try this demo yourself, you can sign up for the OpenAI's API key and the website. You also need to install Python in your computer, which you can do by downloading it from the Python website. And finally, you need to install the necessary libraries by running PIP install OpenAI in your terminal or command prompt. Topic 3. The power of GPT-4 in language models for senior care integration and enrollment. GPT-4 and AI technology can significantly improve senior care in many ways. Natural language processing for senior care communication. GPT-4 can facilitate communication between seniors and caregivers to chatbots. For example, GPT-4 power chatbots can help senior schedule appointments or inquire about health-related concerns. Another example is an AI-driven virtual assistant that can help seniors with hearing impairments

Hanh: 00:27:37
by converting spoken language into text or sign language, ensuring clear and effective communication. AI generated content for cognitive simulation and mental wellness. Or GPT-4 can create personalized brain games and activities like trivia questions tailored to seniors' interests to maintain cognitive function and improve mental well-being. Another example is GPT-4 generating creative writing primes or personalized book recommendations, encouraging seniors to engage their minds through reading and writing. GPT-4 assisted telemedicine and remote consultation. Well, GPT-4 can support health care providers in remote consultations by transcribing patient information and generating treatment recommendations. Well, for instance, GPT-4 can provide diagnostic suggestions based on a patient symptoms. Another example is AI-powered platform that connects seniors with virtual support groups,

Hanh: 00:28:42
allowing them to share experiences and discuss health concerns with peers and professionals. AI-powered sentiment analysis for emotional well-being. Well, sentiment analysis tools can monitor seniors' emotions, alerting caregivers to potential issues like loneliness. Another example, AI could analyze a senior's text messages to identify signs of depression and trigger an alert for caregivers. Another example, GPT-4 powered virtual diary that tracks seniors' moods and emotions over time, providing caregivers with valuable insights into their emotional well-being. Virtual companionship and AI generated social interaction. GPT-4 powered chatbots can provide conversation and companionship, reducing feelings of isolation and seniors. A chip bought my engaged seniors in discussions about their favorite topics, such as sports, movies. Another example is a GPT-4 powered platform that connects seniors with

Hanh: 00:29:48
virtual penpales, allowing them to exchange letters and do friendships with people from around the world. AI-driven therapy and counseling for seniors. Well, GPT-4 can offer supplemental cognitive behavior therapy, for example. An AI-driven chatbot could help seniors practice stress management techniques or work through anxiety-related issues. Another example is an AI-powered virtual support group that provides seniors with a safe space to discuss their emotions and receive guidance for mental health professionals. Language models for multilingual senior care support. Well, GPT-4 can bridge language barriers facilitating communication between seniors and caregivers from diverse linguistic backgrounds. Well, for instance, GPT-4 can provide real-time translations during the conversation between a Spanish-speaking caregiver and an English-speaking senior. Another example is an AI-driven language learning platform that adapts to seniors'

Hanh: 00:30:55
unique learning styles and preferences, helping them learn new languages at their own pace, enhancing senior literacy and learning through AI. What GPT-4 can provide personalized reading materials or language lessons, allowing seniors to engage in lifelong learning. Well, for example, GPT-4 powered app could offer language exercises tailored to seniors' proficiency level. Another example would be a GPT-4 generated book club that recommends reading materials based on seniors' interests and reading abilities, fostering a sense of community and promoting cognitive engagement. GPT-4's role in medication reminders and adherence. Well, GPT-4 can generate personalized medication reminders and provide information about drug interactions, helping seniors manage their medication. For instance, GPT-4 powered voice assistance might remind a senior to take their medication at specific times. Additionally, GPT-4 could create an interactive medication management

Hanh: 00:32:03
platform that tracks seniors' adherence and offers educational resources about potential side effects and proper usage, empowering seniors to take control of their health. AI in emergency responds and safety monitoring for seniors. Well, AI power solutions like voice assistance or seniors can detect potential emergencies and alert caregivers. Well, for example, a sensor system could detect a fall in automatically notified emergency services or a family member. Another example could be a GPT-4 integrated smart home system that monitors seniors daily routines and uses machine learning algorithms to identify unusual pattern that may signal a health concern facilitating timely intervention and support. GPT-4 and AI technology can revolutionize senior care, enhancing seniors' overall quality of life and well-being. By developing and deploying these tools responsibly, researchers, healthcare professionals, and technology developers

Hanh: 00:33:12
can create age-friendly AI solutions that respect seniors' privacy and dignity while providing the support they need. So our focus will be on developing a senior care chatbot or personalized alert care assistant. And it's designed to address common questions related to senior living. Our Python environment is already set up from previous sample as we discuss in the demo one. Now create a four-next loop to cycle through the prompt, convert the response from OpenAI to speech by sending the response text to Google, text to speech, and then create a MP3 file from the Google response and play the file, run the Python script to send the prompts, receive the responses, and play the responses as audio. We as OpenAI, what is the difference between independent living and assisted living, and how do I know which one is right for my loved one? Independent living is living without the need for any assistance with everyday activities,

Hanh: 00:34:21
while assisted living provides help with activities such as bathing, dressing, and meal preparation. The right option for you or your loved one depends on factors such as their health needs, personal preferences, and financial resources. Generally, independent living is a good option for those who can still manage their daily routine with minimal or no assistance, while assisted living is best for those who need more extensive help with activities of daily living. We as OpenAI, how can I find a reputable senior living community near me? And what should I look for when researching different options? When researching senior living communities, it's important to look for one that is licensed and accredited with a good reputation in the area. Look for reviews from current and past residents and contact the better business bureau to find out if any complaints have been filed.

Hanh: 00:35:17
Consider the services offered, such as meals, activities, transportation, and medical care, and make sure the community meets your needs. Also, ask about the staff to resident ratio, as well as the security and emergency procedures that are in place. Finally, visit the community and speak to the staff and residents to get an idea of the quality of care.

Hanh: 00:35:38
So we'll ask OpenAI, how do senior living communities ensure the safety and well-being of their residents, particularly during emergencies or natural disasters?

AI: 00:35:51
Senior living communities ensure the safety and well-being of their residents during emergencies or natural disasters by having emergency plans in place, conducting regular drills and training, providing emergency supplies and resources, and having a 24-7 emergency communication system for residents and staff. They also may provide transportation services to local shelters if necessary, regularly inspect the property for safety hazards, and require all staff to have up-to-date certifications in the emergency preparedness. Senior living communities typically offer a variety of social activities, such as game nights, exercise classes, movie nights, art classes, holiday parties, and field trips. These activities can help seniors stay active and engaged, as well as provide them with an opportunity to socialize with their peers and make new friends.

AI: 00:36:48
Additionally, many communities offer special interest clubs and classes, such as book clubs and cooking classes, to help seniors pursue hobbies and interests. Seniors can also take advantage of the amenities offered by their community, such as fitness centers, swimming pools, and walking trails to stay active and healthy.

Hanh: 00:37:09
We'll ask OpenAI, how can I pay for senior living in what financial assistance options are available?

AI: 00:37:16
You can pay for senior living through a variety of methods, such as through savings, pensions, social security, and other income sources. If these sources are not sufficient, there are financial assistance options available, such as Medicaid waivers, long-term care insurance, and reverse mortgages. Additionally, some states offer the elderly services program which provides assistance with home care and other services for seniors.

Hanh: 00:37:44
Topic 4. GPT-4 and AI language models for senior care in assisted living. The integration of GPT-4 in artificial intelligence into senior care as a potential to transform assisted living facilities by enhancing various aspects of care and daily lives for seniors. The following are 10 ways AI and GPT-4 can improve senior care. 1. AI assisted daily living activities for seniors. AI can assist seniors in performing daily living activities, such as grooming, dressing, and eating. For example, AI powered robotic devices can help seniors with limited mobility, complete tasks that may be challenging for them. These devices can learn seniors' preferences and habits, ensuring personalized assistance tailored to their needs. 2. GPT-4's role in personalized nutrition and meal planning. GPT-4 can analyze seniors' dietary preferences, restrictions, and nutritional needs to create

Hanh: 00:38:56
personalized meal plans. It can also provide recipe suggestions and cooking instructions in sharing seniors receive well-balanced and enjoyable meals. Well, this can help maintain seniors' overall health and well-being, preventing malnutrition and other health issues. 3. Artificial intelligence for fall detection and prevention. Well, AI powered sensors and wearables can detect falls and predict the risk of falling by monitoring seniors' movements in gate pattern. By analyzing this data, care staff can implement interventions to prevent falls, such as installing grab bars or modifying living spaces. 4. AI powered adaptive environments in assisted living communities. AI can be used to create adaptive environments that respond to seniors' needs, such as adjusting lighting, temperature, or even furniture layouts based on seniors' preferences and mobility levels.

Hanh: 00:39:58
This can help create more comfortable and accessible living spaces for seniors, improving their overall quality of life. 5. In-hand step training and education through AI tools. AI-driven training platforms can provide caregivers with up-to-date information and best practices in senior care. GPT-4 can generate training materials, quizzes, and case studies to help care staff stay informed and prepare to meet the seniors' needs effectively. 6. AI-driven assessment and care plan optimization. AI tools can analyze data of seniors' medical records, wearable devices, and caregiver observations to optimize care plans. By identifying patterns and trends, AI can help care staff make informed decisions and adjust care plans to better address the seniors' needs and improve health outcomes. 7. Integrating GPT-4 with the Internet of Things devices for senior care. GPT-4 can be integrated with the Internet of Things devices,

Hanh: 00:41:06
such as smart home systems and wearable devices to provide seniors with real-time assistance and support. For example, GPT-4 can process data from a wearable device to monitor seniors' vital signs in alert caregivers if any abnormalities are detected. 8. AI-based mobility aids and navigation for seniors. For AI-powered mobility aids, such as smart wheelchairs or walking aids can help seniors navigate their environment more safely and independently. These devices can use AI algorithms to avoid obstacles, plan routes, and provide seniors with real-time guidance and support. 9. Promoting social connection to AI-facilitated communications. For AI-driven communication tools like GPT-4 powered chatbots can help seniors maintain social connections by facilitating conversations with friends, family members, and other seniors. These tools can also provide seniors with personalized news updates, engaging content, and other forms of mental stimulation, reducing feelings of isolation,

Hanh: 00:42:17
and loneliness. 10. Evaluating the cause of factiveness of AI and senior care. Well, AI has the potential to reduce cause and senior care by improving efficiency, reducing the need for costly interventions, and optimizing resource allocation, and by analyzing data on care outcomes, resource usage, and other factors, AI can help care facilities identify areas of improvements and implementing cost-saving measures. GPT-4 and AI technology have the potential to revolutionize senior care, making assisted living communities more efficient, personalized, and responsive to seniors' needs, and by incorporating AI into various aspects of care from daily living activities to social connections, assisted living communities can provide a better quality of life for seniors while reducing costs and optimizing resources. The integration of GPT-4 and other AI tools into senior care can lead to numerous benefits for both seniors and care

Hanh: 00:43:23
providers. However, it is crucial to consider ethical considerations such as privacy and data security when implementing AI solutions into the senior care community. By addressing these concerns and ensuring that AI is used responsibly, we can unlock the full potential of AI and GPT-4 in transforming senior care and improving the lives of aging adults. So this walkthrough demonstrates how to create a Python script that leverages the GPT-3.5 API to generate personalized exercise routines and meal plans for seniors with added Google text to speed functionality. So by understanding the code structure and key functions, you can adapt this example to your own applications, create the main function for Python script, create the loop to repeatedly ask user to enter their data, generate exercise prompt from user data, send the exercise prompt request to open AI, generate meal plan prompts from user data, send the meal plan prompt request to open AI,

Hanh: 00:44:30
convert the response from open AI to speech, response text to Google text to speech, create an MP3 file from the Google response and play the file, run your Python script to send the prompts and receive the responses and then play the responses as audio. So we need to enter information for 72-year-old with beginner fitness level, we enter health condition, we enter dietary preferences and we enter the nutrition and fitness goals, exercise and meal plan prompts are now sent to open AI. So we wait for the response.

AI: 00:44:58
Personalized exercise plan. A personalized exercise routine for a 72-year-old with a beginner fitness level and osteoarthritis in the knees and controlled hypertension should include low impact activities that will help to improve strength and flexibility while avoiding further joint damage. For cardiovascular exercise, walking is a great option for this individual. Walking can be done indoors or outdoors and can be done at a pace that is comfortable for them. Additionally, swimming or water aerobics is a great option as it is low impact and can help to reduce joint pain. Strength training is also important for this individual. To start, they can perform simple body weight exercises such as wall sits, squats, lunges and calf raises. As they progress, they can add in light free weights or resistance for additional challenge. It is important to focus on proper form and technique to avoid injury.

AI: 00:46:02
Flexibility exercises are also important for this individual. Stretching can help to improve range of motion and reduce joint pain. Stretching can be done after a workout or on its own. Yoga or Tai Chi are also great options as they incorporate stretching, strength training and balance. Finally, it is important to listen to their body and take breaks as needed. They should be aware of any signs of pain or discomfort and adjust their routine accordingly. Additionally, it is important to consult with a doctor or physical therapist before starting any new exercise routine. Personalized meal plan. Breakfast, oatmeal with fresh fruit and a sprinkle of cinnamon, whole wheat toast with peanut butter, egg white omelette with vegetables, smoothie made with low fat milk, yogurt and frozen berries. Lunch, salad with grilled chicken, nuts and a light vinaigrette, vegetable soup with quinoa, vegetable wrap with hummus, tuna sandwich

AI: 00:47:01
on whole wheat bread. Snacks, fresh fruit, yogurt with granola, vegetables with hummus, whole wheat crackers with peanut butter. Dinner, grilled fish with roasted vegetables, vegetables stir fry with brown rice, vegetable pasta topped with steamed vegetables. Dessert, fruit salad, baked apples with cinnamon, yogurt parfait with granola, dark chocolate with nuts.

Hanh: 00:47:24
We enter the information for the pre-diabetic 68-year-old with beginner fitness level. We enter dietary preferences, so now we enter the nutrition and fitness goals. Exercise and meal plan prams are now sent to open AI.

AI: 00:47:37
Personalized exercise plan. A personalized exercise routine for a 68-year-old with a beginner fitness level and pre-diabetic health condition should begin with light aerobic activity, such as walking, cycling or swimming. These activities should be done at a low to moderate intensity for 30 minutes, three to four times per week. This will help to increase the body's metabolism and use up glucose in the body. Strength training is also important to help build muscle and strength. This can be done with light weights or resistance bands. It is important to start with low weights and do a few repetitions of each exercise. This should be done two to three times per week for 15 to 20 minutes. Yoga and stretching can also be beneficial for managing blood sugar levels. This can help to reduce stress, which can have a positive effect on blood sugar levels.

AI: 00:48:37
Yoga and stretching should be done at least twice per week for 15 to 20 minutes. Finally, it is important to have a healthy diet to help manage blood sugar levels. This should include plenty of fruits and vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins and healthy fats. Eating smaller meals more frequently throughout the day can also help to keep blood sugar levels stable. By following this personalized exercise routine, a 68-year-old with a beginner fitness level and pre-diabetic health condition can help to manage their blood sugar levels and improve their overall health and well-being. Personalized meal plan. Breakfast, Oatmeal with walnuts and fresh fruit. Snack,

AI: 00:49:19
Greek yogurt with fresh berries. Lunch, Vegetable stir fry with lean chicken, brown rice and a side of steamed broccoli. Snack, Hummus and whole wheat pita bread. Dinner, baked salmon with roasted sweet potatoes and a side salad. Snack, Fresh fruit smoothie. This meal plan provides a variety of nutrient-dense foods to help maintain a healthy weight and improve

AI: 00:49:42
overall nutrition. The oatmeal and Greek yogurt provide a good source of protein and fiber while the vegetables stir fry and roasted sweet potatoes are packed with vitamins and minerals. The occasional lean meats provide an additional source of protein while the fresh fruit, hummus and smoothie provide a good source of antioxidants and vitamins. By following this meal plan, the 68-year-old will have the necessary nutrients to maintain a healthy weight and improve overall nutrition.

Hanh: 00:50:14
So we now successfully created a python script that utilizes GPT-3.5 API to generate personalized exercise routines, a meal plan for seniors, and integrated Google text-to-speech to provide voice responses for better user experience. And by understanding the co-structure and the key functions, you can easily adapt this example to various applications and make the modes out of your GPT-3.5 API for your specific needs. And with this knowledge, you can create chatbot or digital assistance that cater to different demographics, industries or domains. The combination of GPT-4's advanced natural language processing capabilities and Google text-to-speech voice synthesis provides an intuitive and interactive way to communicate information to users. Topic 5. Generative AI in GPT-4 revolutionize senior care systems and independent living. The integration of GPT-4 and generative AI in senior housing is poised to revolutionize

Hanh: 00:51:30
senior assistants and create a new era of independent living solutions. And by using artificial intelligence, the senior housing industry can provide personalized and efficient services that cater to the unique needs of older adults. So let's explore how AI is shaping the future of senior housing from smart homes to sustainable solutions. One, AI-driven smart homes for senior independence play a crucial role in enabling older adults to maintain their autonomy. These smart homes are equipped with sensors, devices that monitor daily activities, track health data and provide reminders and medication and appointments. AI-powered voice assistance such as those using GPT-4 can also help seniors with daily tasks and provide companionship. Two, GPT-4's role in optimizing housing design for the elderly. GPT-4's role in optimizing housing design for seniors needs is so important. By analyzing data on senior mobility

Hanh: 00:52:34
accessibility and daily routines, AI can provide insights on how to create housing layouts that minimize all risk, maximize accessibility and promote overall well-being. GPT-4 can also generate suggestions for interior design elements that cater to seniors' preferences and cognitive abilities. Three, AI-assisted living community engagement and activities help seniors stay socially connected and mentally stimulated. Or GPT-4 can facilitate personalized activity recommendations based on seniors' interests, abilities and schedules. Also, AI can be used to create virtual or augmented reality experiences such as interactive games or historical tours that provide mental stimulation and socialization opportunities. Four, enhancing safety and security in senior housing through AI involves using technologies like motion sensors, facial recognition and AI-powered security systems. While these tools can help detect falls,

Hanh: 00:53:41
monitor for signs of cognitive decline and prevent unauthorized access to senior living communities. AI-driven emergency response systems can also ensure that help is quickly dispatched in case of accidents or health emergencies. Five, AI-powered transportation solutions or senior residents include autonomous vehicles, ride sharing platforms, and AI-driven route planning. Well, these services can help seniors maintain their independence by providing safe and reliable transportation options tailored to other specific needs such as wheelchair accessibility or assistance with caring groceries. Six, AI in the management and maintenance of senior living communities can streamline operations and improve efficiency. Well, for example, AI can optimize energy usage, manage inventory, and schedule maintenance tasks. By automating

Hanh: 00:54:43
these processes, staff can focus on providing personalized care and fostering meaningful connections with residents. Seven, balancing technology and human touch in AI-driven senior housing is so important to ensure that seniors do not feel isolated or overwhelmed by their technology. Well, AI can provide many benefits, it's crucial to maintain a balance between technological assistance and human interaction. Or staff training should emphasize the importance of empathetic communication and understanding residents' emotional needs. Eight, sustainable and eco-friendly AI solutions for senior living involve leveraging AI to optimize energy usage, reduce ways, and promote environmentally friendly practices. Well, for example, AI can optimize heating and cooling systems, manage waste disposal, and support sustainable landscaping. These practices contribute to a healthier living

Hanh: 00:55:47
environment and reduce the environmental impact of senior housing community. Nine, generative AI for personalized home layout and design can create customized living spaces that cater to the seniors' unique preferences and requirements. By using GPT-4, designers can generate lower plans, earnator arrangements, and interior design elements tailored to each resident's needs, maximizing comfort and functionality. Ten, preparing the senior housing industry for AI integration involves investing in staff training, updating infrastructure, and fostering a culture of innovation. Stakeholders must collaborate to develop policies and ethical guidelines that ensure AI technologies are used responsibly and transparently. And by doing so, the senior housing industry can harness the power of AI to improve the lives of older adults while preserving their dignity and autonomy. The responsible use of GPT-4 in generative AI

Hanh: 00:56:54
holds the potential to revolutionize senior housing and improve the lives of older adults. And by leveraging these technologies effectively and maintaining a balance between AI and the human touch, the industry can create innovative senior assistants and independent living solutions that prioritize seniors' well-being, safety, and dignity. And collaborative efforts among stakeholders are so important to ensure the successful integration of AI from a senior care. Topics 6. AI personalizes senior care with GPT-4 and machine learning. Well, personal life senior care with AF. How GPT-4 and machine learning are driving customized solutions for senior living. The integration of artificial intelligence and generative language models like GPT-4 is revolutionizing the way senior care is provided. And by utilizing data-driven insights and machine learning algorithms,

Hanh: 00:58:02
personalized solutions can be developed for seniors, enhancing the overall quality of life and well-being. So we'll go through 10 ways the AI is driving customized solutions for seniors. 1. Data-driven personalization of senior care services. AI technologies enable the collection of analysis of vast amounts of data from various sources, including electronic health records, wearable devices, and in-home sensors. By analyzing this data, care providers can better understand the individual seniors' needs and preferences, allowing them to personalize care services accordingly. Well, for example, AI-driven meal planning systems can consider dietary restrictions, personal taste, and nutritional requirements to create customized menus for seniors. 2. AI-assisted health assessments and recommendations.

Hanh: 00:59:01
Well, AI-powered health assessment tools can analyze seniors' health data, such as vital signs in medical history, to make personalized recommendations for care management. Well, for instance, AI algorithms can identify patterns in blood pressure data in such as lifestyle changes or medications to better manage hypertension. This level of personalization can lead to more effective treatment plans and improve health outcomes for seniors. 3. GPT-4-driven lifestyle and wellness coaching for seniors. Generative AI models like GPT-4 can add as virtual wellness coaches, providing seniors with personalized guidance on exercise routines, stress management techniques, nutrition. And by taking into account each individual's physical abilities, preferences, and health goals GPT-4 can generate tailored advice to help seniors maintain

Hanh: 01:00:00
their physical and mental well-being. 4. AI-powered adaptive assistance for daily living tasks. Well, for example, AI-driven smart home systems can learn seniors daily routines and automatically adjust lighting, temperature, and appliance settings based on their preferences. Voice assistance powered by GPT-4 can provide step-by-step guidance for tasks like cooking or medication management, adapting their instructions based on seniors' individual needs and abilities. 5. Personalize entertainment and cognitive engagement with AI. Well, AI-generated content can provide seniors with personalized entertainment and cognitive engagement opportunities. GPT-4 can create customized crossword puzzles, trivia questions, or conversation topics based on the seniors' interest and cognitive abilities. This level of personalization can help keep seniors mentally stimulated and engage in activities

Hanh: 01:01:07
that they enjoy. 6. Machine learning algorithms for predicting care needs. Well, machine learning algorithms can analyze data from various sources, including health records and in-home sensors to predict the seniors' future care needs. By identifying patterns and trends in data, these algorithms can anticipate potential health issues, allowing care providers to intervene proactively and adjust care plans accordingly. 7. AI-in-hands communication between seniors and caregivers. Well, GPT-4 can facilitate communication between seniors and caregivers by serving as a virtual intermediary. Or, for instance, GPT-4 powered chatbots can help seniors express their needs and preferences while also providing caregivers with important information about seniors' health and well-being. Well, this enhanced communication can lead to more personalized care with improved overall satisfaction for seniors. 8. Customize AI-generated content

Hanh: 01:02:14
for seniors' interest. GPT-4 can generate personalized content tailored to seniors' interest and preferences. Well, for example, AI-powered news aggregators can curate articles and stories based on seniors' favorite topics, providing them with personalized and engaging reading experience. Well, this level of customization can help seniors stay informed and engage with their interest. 9. Balancing privacy and personalization. In AI-driven senior care. Well, AI-driven personalization offers many benefits for senior care. It also raises concern about privacy and security. Care providers and technology developers must strike a balance between offering personalized solutions and protecting the senior's sensitive information, implementing robust data protection measures such as encryption and strict access controls can help ensure seniors' privacy is maintained while still taking advantage of AI-driven

Hanh: 01:03:15
personalization. 10. Measureing the impact of AI personalization and senior well-being. Well, to fully understand the benefits of AI-driven personalization in senior care, it's important to measure its impact on seniors' well-being. A researchers and care providers can use various metrics such as satisfaction surveys, health outcomes, and quality of life indicators to evaluate the effectiveness of personalized AI solutions. And by closely monitoring and analyzing these metrics, stakeholders can identify areas for improvements in refined AI-driven care strategies to meet the seniors' needs. So, the integration of GPT-4 emerging learning technologies in senior care is transforming the way services are provided to older adults. And by leveraging data-driven insights and personalized solutions, care providers can better cater to the seniors' individual needs and preferences and ultimately

Hanh: 01:04:18
improving their overall quality of life and well-being. And as a senior population continues to grow, the adoption of AI-driven technologies will be so important to ensure that seniors receive customized care that they need and deserve. In this demonstration, I'll show you how to utilize GPT-4's self-prompting technique to create AI application for seniors using medication management scenario as an example. We'll be able to use text-to-speech for voice responses to make the interaction more engaging. So now, prepare an example. We'll use GPT-4's self-prompting capabilities to create a medication management. It's an AI application that helps seniors manage their medication schedules, provides reminders, and alerts for upcoming medication doses. So during the presentation, I'll show you the benefits of self-prompting technique by showing a live example of a conversation

Hanh: 01:05:14
between GPT-4 and the user as it unfolds in real-time, running a script that will generate a conversation where GPT-4 asks a series of questions and generates coherent and context-aware responses. It's based on the user's input. So what medications are you currently taking?

AI: 01:05:33
I'm currently taking a daily multivitamin, an antihistamine for seasonal allergies, and an antidepressant.

Hanh: 01:05:38
We'll ask OpenAI, what are the dosages of these medications?

AI: 01:05:44
The dosages of medications depend on the type of medication, the indication for use, and the patient's medical history. It is important to consult with a doctor or pharmacist to determine the correct dosage for each medication.

Hanh: 01:05:56
And we'll ask, when do you take each medication?

AI: 01:06:03
It is important to follow your doctor's instructions for taking any medication. Depending on the medication, you may need to take it once or twice a day or as needed. Be sure to read the label carefully and follow the directions provided.

Hanh: 01:06:20
The self-prompting technique improves response coherent and context-awareness by enabling GPT-4 to actively engage in a conversation with the user. So instead of providing a one-time response, GPT-4 can follow up on previous responses as relevant questions and adapt its responses to the user's needs. So this dynamic interaction creates a more natural, engaging, and coherent conversation, making the AI application more user-friendly and effective. So using the self-prompting technique is particularly beneficial for seniors as it provides personalized and engaging interaction that's tailored to their individual needs and preferences. So seniors may face unique challenges such as memory loss or difficulty with complex instructions, making it crucial for AI applications to deliver context-aware and easy to understand responses. And by incorporating GPT-4 self-prompting technique in AI applications,

Hanh: 01:07:27
developers can create solutions that better cater to the seniors needs, providing more coherent and context-aware responses for a range of scenarios like medication management, cognitive stimulation, and emotional support. So this approach can help improve seniors' quality of life, making it easier for them to manage their daily activities and maintain their independence. Topic 7. AI-powered senior housing, GPT-4 and machine learning, transforming retirement community. The evolution of senior living has seen significant advancements in recent years, with the integration of artificial intelligence and machine learning technologies, playing a crucial role in transforming the way senior individuals experience their living environments. So let's explore how GPT-4 and machine learning are revolutionizing senior housing, moving from traditional retirement communities to AI-enable homes,

Hanh: 01:08:34
and addressing critical aspects of senior living, such as safety, energy efficiency, and digital inclusivity. One, transitioning from traditional retirement communities to AI-enable home. This includes smart home systems, AI-driven health monitoring, and personalized services tailored to individual needs, improving overall quality of life for seniors. Two, AI-assisted living design and infrastructure for senior living. AI can assist in the design for senior living communities that cater to residents' needs by analyzing data on mobility, accessibility, and social interaction. This results in optimized layouts, improve safety features, and resource efficient infrastructure, creating a more comfortable and supportive living environments for seniors. Three, GPT-4's role in community planning and resource management. Well GPT-4 can contribute to community planning and resource management in senior housing

Hanh: 01:09:38
by analyzing large data sets and generating insights and resource allocation, staff scheduling, and activity planning. This ensures efficient use of resources and promotes a harmonious community atmosphere. Four, machine learning for optimizing energy efficient in senior housing. What machine learning algorithms can optimize energy efficiency in senior housing by analyzing energy consumption patterns and identifying opportunities for improvements. Well, this leads to reduced cost, reduced energy costs, lower carbon emissions, and sustainable living environments for seniors. Five, AI-driven safety and security measures in retirement communities. Well AI-driven safety and security measures in retirement communities include monitoring systems, fault detection, and emergency response automation. These technologies provide real-time alerts and enable prompt intervention ensuring the safety and well-being of residents. Six,

Hanh: 01:10:45
adapting existing retirement communities for AI integration. To adapt existing retirement communities for AI integration, retrofitting current infrastructure with smart devices and sensors and implementing AI-driven system is so important. This involves evaluating current facilities, identifying areas of improvement, and deploying technology upgrade that enhanced seniors living experiences. Seven, evaluating the costs and benefits of AI-enabled senior housing. Well, this involves assessing the return on investment, the ROI of implementing advanced technologies. Factors to consider include upfront costs, ongoing maintenance, improve safety and security, increase resident satisfaction, and potential savings from efficient resource management. Eight, ensuring digital inclusivity in AI-driven retirement communities. Digital inclusivity in AI-driven retirement communities requires user-friendly interfaces,

Hanh: 01:11:49
accessible devices, and personalized training for seniors. Addressing barriers such as digital literacy and accessibility enable seniors to benefit from AI technologies promoting autonomy and self-sufficiency. Nine, AI's role in intergenerational living and social connections. Well, AI technologies can foster intergenerational living and social connection within the senior housing community. Well, these AI-driven platforms and applications allow seniors to engage in virtual social activities, connect with family members, and participate in shared experiences with a younger generation. Well, this reduces social isolation and includes mental well-being while promoting community connectedness. Ten, preparing the workforce for AI adaption in senior housing. Well, the integration of AI in senior housing requires a workforce skilled in operating, maintaining, and adapting AI-driven systems. I'm going training in development opportunities

Hanh: 01:12:55
are so crucial for caregivers, facility managers, and other employees to provide quality care and support to seniors, enhancing their overall living experience. The integration of GPT-4 and machine learning technologies in senior housing has a potential to revolutionize the way seniors live and interact with their communities. And by embracing the AI-driven solutions, retirement communities can provide personalized, efficient, and sustainable living environments that cater to the diverse needs of seniors, and ultimately enhancing the quality of life. Topic 8, Aging and AI and machine learning elevating senior living experiences Machine learning and AI technologies address older adults in unique needs and foster independence. So let's explore how AI is enhancing senior living experiences. First,

Hanh: 01:13:58
improving quality of life. AI-powered devices like smart home systems and health monitoring devices simplify daily tasks and provide real-time data to healthcare providers. Second, mental and emotional support will AI chatbots and virtual assistants offer companionship, conversations, and reminders for medications and appointments. Third, fostering social connections. GPT-4 generates personalized content for seniors, recommending tailored social activities, and connecting them with like-minded individuals. Fourth, wellness programs and health tracking. Well, AI-driven wellness programs provide customized recommendations while wearable devices monitor seniors' health or timely interventions. Fifth, AI-assisted mobility. Well, autonomous vehicles and AI-driven transportation systems offer safe and accessible mobility options for seniors. Six, empowering aging in place. Smart home systems in AI-driven devices

Hanh: 01:15:05
support seniors in daily tasks, health monitoring, and safety enabling them to maintain independence. Seven, digital literacy and AI education. Well, education in training programs develop digital literacy. Ensuring seniors can successfully integrate AI technologies into their lives. Eight, addressing cognitive decline. AI-driven cognitive training programs and memory aids help seniors maintain cognitive abilities and stay organized. Nine, AI in financial management and security. Well, AI technologies assist in managing finances, monitoring transactions, and detecting potential fraud, providing personalized recommendations. Ethical considerations. Addressing ethical consideration surrounding native privacy, security, and potential biases in AI algorithms is very important for responsible implementation in the senior living sector. AI technologies can revolutionize senior living experiences by offering personalized

Hanh: 01:16:11
solutions catering to aging adult's unique needs, harnessing AI power while considering ethical implications can create a supporter, engaging in empowering environment for seniors to lead fulfilling and independent lives. Topic 9, GPT-4 senior living machine learning for smarter sales and marketing strategies. While the growing aging population demands innovative marketing and sales strategies in senior living, GPT-4 machine learning and AI technologies offer promising opportunities to optimize these areas. So let's explore how AI is revolutionizing sales and marketing. First, GPT-4 driven content generation. GPT-4 can generate high quality, engaging marketing materials effectively reaching the target audience while saving time and resources. Second, AI assisted customer segmentation. Well, AI analyzes data to segment potential customers, enabling targeted marketing efforts and ensuring messages resonate with the right audience. Third,

Hanh: 01:17:28
AI powered sales forecasting and market analysis. Well, machine learning algorithms provide accurate sales forecast and valuable market insights that helps in data-driven decision making. Fourth, enhancing the CRM with AI tools. Well, AI-driven CRM systems analyze customer interactions, prioritize high potential leads in personalized communication efforts, increasingly conversion rates and satisfaction. Fifth, AI-driven lead generation in nurturing. Well, machine learning models identify potential customers and engage them through chatbot and automated email campaigns, guiding them in the decision making. Six, personalizing marketing campaigns. Well, AI technologies can create tailored marketing messages fostering stronger connections and increasing the likelihood of conversion. Seven, leveraging AI insights for strategic decision making. Well, AI-driven market research

Hanh: 01:18:30
in customer analytics enable informed decisions about service offerings, pricing and marketing strategies. Eight, AI enhance virtual tours. Well, AI technologies create immersive virtual tours, engaging prospects in highlighting the unique features and benefits of the community. Nine, assessing the ROI of the AI-driven marketing. Well, AI-driven marketing and analytic tools measure campaign effectiveness and the ROI to return an investment, optimizing strategies and driving growth. Ten, preparing the industry for AI-driven transformation. Well, senior living providers must invest in infrastructure, data storage and processing capabilities and also to ensure teams are equipped with the necessary skills. GPT-4 and machine learning can revolutionize sales and marketing in the industry and by harnessing AI-driven content generation, customer segmentation and market analysis, senior housing providers can optimize

Hanh: 01:19:35
their strategies and improve sales efforts. See, AI enhance CRM systems, lead generation and nurturing processes can effectively engage the prospects and build strong relationships, increasing conversion rates and customer satisfaction. Embracing AI-driven marketing transformation enables senior living providers to stay ahead of the competition and better serve the age and population, while offering tailored solutions that cater to their new needs and preferences. And ultimately, adaption of the AI-driven marketing and sales strategies can increase more supportive and engaging and customer centric senior living industry. Topic 10, ways that GPT-4 and AI are transforming sales strategies in senior care and senior living marketing. The senior care and senior living sector is undergoing significant changes as innovative technologies like chat GPT and AI power tools who revolutionize sales strategies. These

Hanh: 01:20:42
advancements help senior care providers cater to the unique needs of older or those more effectively, delivering personalized experiences and fostering stronger connections. Well, here are 10 ways that AI technologies are impacting marketing and sales in the senior living and the senior care industry. First, AI powered market research and competitive analysis. AI-driven tools provide comprehensive insight into the industry trends, consumer preferences and growth opportunity. Second, GPT-4-driven content strategy and storytelling. Well, GPT-4 technology generates engaging and persuasive content, helping senior care brands connect with their audience and differentiate themselves. Third, personalized and targeted AI generated marketing messages. Well, AI technologies enable the development of highly personalized marketing messages, increasing campaign effectiveness and building stronger customer relationship.

Hanh: 01:21:43
Fourth, AI enhance social media and online community management. Well, AI-driven tools analyze social media interactions, identify trending topics, and generate relevant content for our effective online presence management. Fifth, AI-driven customer journey mapping. Well, AI technologies help providers gain a deeper understanding of prospects, needs and preferences, refining sales strategies and enhancing customer experience. Sixth, identifying unmet needs with AI. Well, AI can analyze vast amounts of data to uncover unmet needs and market gaps, allowing providers to develop innovative solutions and expand their offerings. Seven, optimizing marketing budgets and resource allocation with machine learning. Well, AI-powered tools help providers optimize their marketing budgets and allocate resources more efficiently. And eight, enhancing sales team performance with AI insights and tools.

Hanh: 01:22:48
AI technologies provide sales teams with valuable insights, enabling them to tailor their sales approach and close deals more effectively. Nine, AI-powered public relations and reputation management. Well, AI-driven tools monitor online sentiment, manage public relations and protect providers' reputations. Ten, assessing the ethical implications of AI marketing. Well, providers must consider ethical implications surrounding data privacy, security, and potential biases in AI algorithms, ensuring transparency, accountability, and user-centric design. So thank you so much for joining me today, as we explored how GPT-4 and AI technology can enhance senior care and senior living experiences. We covered a range of topics from improving care staff efficiency to optimizing sales and marketing strategies, personalized care plans, senior perspectives in AI development, and sustainable AI solutions for senior living.

Hanh: 01:23:55
Well, GPT-4 and machine learning can provide data-driven personalization, optimize housing designs, and enhance safety and security measures. AI can also promote independence, prevent ageism, and support mental and emotional well-being. However, it is so crucial to consider the ethical implications and ensure digital inclusivity and privacy in AI adoption. And if you think GPT-4 is impressive, wait until you see the potential of GPT-5 and artificial general intelligence, AGI, in senior care. Well, AGI is a big step forward compared to specialized AI's like jet GPT, as it can do any intellectual task a human can, making it more flexible and more powerful. Well, to put it simply, GPT-4 is an advanced AI that mostly deals with language tasks. On the other hand, AGI is more powerful and versatile AI, they can do everything a human can do, going beyond the abilities of specialized AI's like jet GPT-4.

Hanh: 01:25:10
Well, AGI offers amazing possibilities in many areas, including changing how caregivers and healthcare workers do their jobs. To make sure AGI helps seniors in society, we need to address privacy, security, and ethical issues. And by using GPT-4, AGI and AI in senior care, we can make life better for older adults. In creating tailored, effective, and ethical solutions, helps make senior living and senior care more accessible, inclusive, and sustainable. In working together, technology experts, gerontologists, and caregivers can create AI innovations that support seniors and improve their well-being. So in conclusion, AGI holds in men's potential to positively impact seniors' lives and their loved ones. And by embracing AGI's potential in addressing its challenges, we can create a better world for our aging population, where they are supportive, valued, and empowered to thrive. Well, I hope this presentation

Hanh: 01:26:13
has given you some food for thought, and how AGI can revolutionize senior care and senior living industry. And thank you so much for your attention, and please feel free to reach out any questions or comments.

00:00:00
Welcome to our podcast. So today we're going to discuss a topic that has affected everyone. The COVID-19 pandemic. Among the many industries impacted, senior living providers have faced significant challenges. So in this episode, we'll explore how senior living providers have adapted to the changing circumstances and discovered

00:00:17
opportunities to enhance resident care. We'll delve into the creative strategies and solutions being employed to meet the needs of the post covid society. So join us as we discuss from Crisis to Opportunity, How Senior Living Providers are Pivoting in the Post Covid World. So let's talk about senior living strategies for moving forward. The industry has confronted numerous

00:00:43
challenges due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Ensuring the safety and health of residents and staff is of utmost importance requiring providers to develop innovative strategies to progress in this new landscape. So let's explore some strategies that providers are implementing as they adjust to the new normal. Well first, senior living providers are

00:01:06
collaborating with healthcare providers to create integrated communities. By partnering with healthcare providers, senior living communities can offer more comprehensive and integrated care, providing medical services and rehabilitation programs right on site. This collaboration can lead to improved health outcomes for seniors, reduce healthcare costs,

00:01:27
and increase resident satisfaction. Now this partnership ensures a more streamlined and accessible experience for residents with essential services conveniently located within the communities. The integration of healthcare services also encourages more personalized care and a focus on preventative measures to maintain residents well-being.

00:01:53
Another approach involves concentrating on smaller, more manageable projects like pocket neighborhoods. These close-knit communities of approximately 12 to 20 homes, promote a sense of community, helping seniors stay connected with their neighbors, and providing access to amenities and services they might not have otherwise. Pocket neighborhoods are designed

00:02:15
to encourage social interaction while maintaining residents' privacy and independence. These communities often feature shared outdoor spaces such as gardens and walking paths, which, um, contribute to a higher quality of life and overall well-being for seniors. So in a cost effective move, senior living providers are repurposing

00:02:40
existing properties such as hotels and office buildings. This not only saves on development costs, but also enables a quicker move-in process while taking advantage of existing infrastructure and amenities. The adaptive reuse of these buildings allows providers to address the demand for senior housing more rapidly and efficiently, while minimizing the

00:03:02
environmental impact of new construction. Now, repurposing existing properties often result in unique and architectural interesting spaces, making them more appealing to potential residants. Technology plays a crucial role in senior living providers progress. Virtual tours help seniors and their families make informed decisions without physically visiting the commuinity.

00:03:26
Telehealth services improved resident safety during the pandemic by reducing the need for in-person visits. Electronic health records and remote monitoring devices also assist providers in managing the resident's health more effectively. The integration of technology into senior living communities also extend the use of smart home devices and wearables, which

00:03:46
can help monitor the residents' health and safety while promoting independence. Now, technology can facilitate communication between residents and their families, enhancing social connections and providing a peace of mind for their loved ones. Also, implementing enhanced safety measures is so critical for senior living providers.

00:04:09
Frequent cleaning and disinfection protect residents from the virus while staff training and education ensures that providers follow the latest safety protocols. Screening protocols and visitors restrictions further reduce the risk of transmission. And by maintaining a strong focus on safety, providers can help alleviate

00:04:29
concerns about infection control and create an environment in which residents feel secure and protected. So the commitment to safety also extends to emergency preparedness with providers developing and refining plans for dealing with natural disasters, power outages, and other unexpected events. As the senior living industry continues to adapt, uh, to the challenges

00:04:53
brought on by the Covid Pandemic, it's so important to prioritize the residents' needs and devise creative strategies to address those needs. Strategies include incorporating healthcare service, adding outdoor amenities, offering private units, incorporating technology, and creating intergenerational communities. Senior living providers also

00:05:14
face financial challenges when developing and managing communities. So they have to explore new financing options, work with the local and state government, and investigate the impact of investing to overcome these challenges. Now the design and layout of the communities play a critical role in the residents health and well-being. Changing the design and layout using

00:05:36
modular construction, creating flexible spaces, and building a suburban and rural areas are strategies that providers are considering when designing and laying out their communities. And by prioritizing accessibility, natural light, and connections to nature, providers are creating environments that promote physical and mental well-being for their residents.

00:06:02
Incorporating spaces for social interaction, exercise, and relaxation can contribute to higher quality of life and encourage a sense of community within the senior living developments. So during the COVID-19 pandemic, fostering a sense of community has become crucial in senior living. Providers are employing various strategies to promote social connections among the

00:06:25
residents, including creating a sense of community with social distancing in place, incorporating outdoor common areas, offering virtual events and activities, and establishing intergenerational co-housing communities. While these efforts can combat feelings of isolation and loneliness that many seniors have experienced during the pandemic, while promoting

00:06:48
overall well-being and mental health. As you know, health and wellness are so important for seniors' well-being. Providers are enhancing the health and wellness by incorporating wellness programs, creating spaces for quiet reflection and relaxation, and focusing on emergency preparedness and disaster planning.

00:07:06
So offering a variety of fitness classes, educational programs, and wellness focused activities, all of this can help residents maintain their physical and cognitive abilities while also providing opportunities for social engagement. They're promoting a holistic approach to wellness that includes mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being. Now, all of this contributes

00:07:28
to a more fulfilling and a meaningful lifestyle for seniors. Affordability and accessibility play a crucial role in senior living as they directly impact the quality of life for older adults. Providers in the industry are working diligently to enhance these aspects, ensuring seniors from various financial backgrounds have access to

00:07:50
suitable housing and care options. One of the primary ways providers are addressing affordability is concentrating on affordable housing projects. These initiatives aim to develop communities that cater to seniors with different income levels, making it possible for more individuals to find housing that fits their budget. And by offering housing options

00:08:09
at various price points, providers can, um, providers are making senior living more accessible and inclusive. They're also actively exploring new funding sources and government programs to improve affordability for senior living. And by tapping into alternative financing options, providers receive the necessary funding to construct

00:08:29
and maintain affordable communities. Uh, government programs such as tax incentives and subsidies help bridge the gap between the seniors financial capabilities and the cost of living in these communities. Flexible lease terms and payment options are being introduced by providers to cater to the seniors diverse financial needs. And by offering adjustable lease

00:08:54
agreements and customizable payment structures, providers are accommodating a wider range of income levels, making senior living more accessible to those who might not have been able to afford it, otherwise. Another component, uh, transportation services play a significant role in enhancing accessibility for seniors as they directly impact

00:09:18
the resident's ability to access, uh, amenities and services. So providers are actively providing transportation solutions, helping residents maintain their independence and engage in community activities even when they have limited mobility, or can no longer drive themselves. So this also encourages social interaction and a sense of belonging among residents

00:09:41
which can contribute to improved mental health and overall well-being. Financial counseling is another important service offered by senior living providers aiming to help empower seniors to make informed decisions regardless of their finances. By providing guidance on budgeting, managing expenses, and navigating the financial assistance programs,

00:10:03
providers are helping residents maximize their resources and live comfortably within their means. Home healthcare services play a critical role in enhancing the accessibility of care for seniors as they allow residents to receive the support they need within the comfort of their home. Providers are offering these services to ensure that seniors

00:10:25
have access in professional care, even if they have limited mobility or face challenges in accessing the external healthcare facilities. So home healthcare services can range from nursing care and therapy to assistance with daily living activities, making it possible for seniors to maintain their independence and enjoy a higher quality of life.

00:10:47
So by addressing affordability and accessibility, senior living providers are ensuring that a diverse range of seniors, regardless of their financial circumstances, have access to quality housing and care options. So this approach not only benefits the individual residents, but contributes to the development of more inclusive and diverse communities

00:11:09
where seniors from all walks of life can come together and share their experiences and support one another. So as you can see, affordability and accessibility are a crucial aspect of senior living that the providers are prioritizing to cater to this diverse needs of age of the aging population. And by focusing on affordable housing

00:11:29
projects, exploring new funding sources and government programs, offering flexible lease terms and payment options, providing transportation services, offering financial counseling, and supplying home healthcare services providers are creating more inclusive and diverse communities where seniors can thrive regardless of their financial circumstances.

00:11:54
Now, as you know, the senior living industry has faced challenges such as delays and cancellation of housing projects due to the pandemic and the economic uncertainty. Providers are overcoming these challenges by exploring alternative financing options, working with the local governmens, and reevaluating development plans.

00:12:14
And by staying nimble in adapting to changing market conditions, providers can continue to meet growing demand for senior housing and care options. The pandemic has resulted in significant changes in the demand for senior living communities emphasizing the importance of healthcare, wellness, outdoor space, access to nature. Providers are prioritizing these

00:12:35
aspects to meet the evolving needs of their residents. And by focusing on creating communities that support physical, emotional, and mental well-being, providers can ensure that their residents continue to thrive in a post covid world. Safety measures play a critical role in senior living communities, and the providers are taking all

00:12:54
the steps to ensure the well-being and security of their residents. They're actively implementing enhanced cleaning and disinfection protocols, which involve rigorous cleaning schedules, the use of high quality disinfectants, and frequent sanitization, and high-touch services. And by maintaining a clean and sanitary environment, providers minimize the

00:13:19
risk of infections and diseases, providing a peace of mind to both the residents and their families. Another aspect of safety that providers are addressing is the integration of backup power systems. These systems are so important in case of power outages, ensuring that residents have access to the essential services and utilities during emergencies.

00:13:40
And by installing and maintaining reliable backup power solutions, providers ensure that residents can continue to receive care and support even during unforeseen circumstances. Emergency response plans are also being developed and implemented by senior living providers, highlighting their commitment to the safety and security of the residents.

00:14:02
Comprehensive emergency plans include evacuation procedures, communication strategies, and resource management, ensuring that communities can respond effectively to emergencies and minimize potential risk. Staff members receive regular training to familiarize themselves with emergency protocols, enabling them to act promptly and efficiently in times of crisis.

00:14:25
Aside from the focus on safety, senior living providers are exploring innovative approaches to create new living options for seniors. Well, one approach is shared housing model, which includes co-housing and home sharing arrangements. These models provide seniors with a more affordable and socially connected living environments, fostering

00:14:44
a sense of community and belong. And by offering shared housing options, providers cater to seniors' diverse needs and preferences by promoting social interaction and support among the residents. Modular construction is another innovative approach that providers are utilizing to meet the growing demands of senior housing.

00:15:07
By employing this method, providers can significantly reduce building costs and construction timelines. Modular construction involves the offsite fabrication of building components, which are then transported to the construction site for assembly. This process not only saves time and money, but also results in a more efficient use of resources, making

00:15:27
it a sustainable and cost effective solution for senior living communities. So as you can see, disaster preparedness plans are being developed by providers, ensuring that their communities are equipped to handle emergencies and protect the residents during the crisis. These comprehensive plans cover, uh, aspects such as risk assessment, resource allocation, staff training,

00:15:54
and communication strategies. And by having a well thought out disaster preparedness plan in place, providers demonstrate their commitment to the safety and well-being of their residents even in the most challenging circumstances. Alternative financing options are another area that providers are actively exploring, aiming to secure the necessary funding to develop and maintain high

00:16:19
quality senior living communities. Public and private partnerships and impact investing are examples of innovative financing solutions that providers are using to fund their projects. Public-private partnerships involve collaborations between government entities and private organizations, leveraging the strengths and resources of both sectors to achieve common goals.

00:16:43
Impact investing on the other hand, refers to investments made with the intention of generating both financial returns and positive social or environmental outcomes. And by considering these alternative finance financing options, senior living providers can access the capital they need to create and sustain exceptional communities for seniors. So as you can see, senior living

00:17:04
providers are actively implementing safety measures and exploring innovative approaches to address the diverse needs of their residents. And by focusing on enhanced cleaning and disinfection protocols, incorporating backup power systems, developing emergency response plans, offering shared housing options, utilizing modular construction, preparing disaster plans, and exploring

00:17:29
alternative financing options, providers create safe, secure, and high quality living environments for seniors. Their ongoing commitment to innovation and safety ensures that senior living communities remain reliable and attractive options for older adults and their families, instilling confidence and trust in the care that they provide.

00:17:56
So, in conclusion, senior living providers have demonstrated resilience and creativity in navigating the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic. They have adopted new technologies, implemented strict safety protocols, and prioritized resident engagement and quality of life. So as the pandemic continues to shape the senior living industry, providers

00:18:19
are remaining adaptable and responsive to the evolving needs of their residents. And by prioritizing health, safety, and well-being, senior living providers can ensure that they continue to offer valuable services and support to the seniors in the post covid world. Well, so thank you so much for joining us in this episode as we discuss the ways that senior living providers

00:18:44
are pivoting in a post covid world. We hope that this discussion has shed light on the innovative strategies and solutions being employed to meet the needs of seniors in a changing society. So stay tuned for more insightful conversations on our podcast. So until next time, take care and have a great day.

00:00:00
Well hello, this Hanh Brown and today we're gonna talk about the topic, "Golden Years, Living Life on Your Own Terms." Well, we're gonna talk about lifestyle that seniors want and the importance of maintaining independence, personal fulfillment, and staying active during retirement. We'll also be covering various aspects of retirement living

00:00:22
from exploring new hobbies and interests to ensuring health and wellness and even fostering intergenerational connections. So sit back and let's dive into how to enjoy life to the fullest in retirement. So let's talk about the importance of independence and personal fulfillment in retirement. I know there's seniors, um, many are worried about losing

00:00:44
their independence as they age, um, as they enter into a new phase if life. Well, retirement can actually be a time to continue doing the things that you love and maintaining control over your life. To stay independent during retirement it's so important to stay active, engage, and adaptable. So let's explore some ways how to achieve this.

00:01:10
Well, one of the best ways to maintain independence is to stay active and engaged in the community. This not only provides, um, an opportunity to socialize with others, but also keeps you mentally and physically active, which can contribute to a longer and healthier life. And there are so many ways to stay active and engaged in the community.

00:01:31
Well, here are some tips. Um, participating in local events and activities. Keep an eye on your local newspaper or community bulletin board for events happening in your area. From art exhibits to farmer's markets and community theater productions, there's always something fun to explore. And joining clubs or groups

00:01:48
that align with your interests. If you love gardening, join a gardening club. Passionate about photography? Well, there's probably a photography group in your area no matter what your interests. Um, there's likely to be a club or a group where you can meet like-minded people. Also volunteering for local

00:02:06
organizations or charities. These are, uh, it's a fantastic way to stay engaged in your community while also giving back, plus it's an excellent opportunity to meet new people and make new friends. And attending educational workshops, seminars, or classes. This keeps your mind sharp by learning new things.

00:02:28
Many community centers, libraries, or colleges offer workshops and classes on various subjects from cooking to technology and everything in between. And you know, technology also plays such an I important role in helping seniors maintain their independence. So staying connected with your loved ones through video calls, social media, and other digital

00:02:49
forms is very important in combating feelings of isolation and loneliness. Well, here are a few tips on how you can use technology to say connected. Um, let's talk about video calling apps like Zoom, Skype, or Facetime. Video calling is a fantastic way to stay in touch with friends and family no matter where they are. I know it might seem intimidating

00:03:13
at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll absolutely love being able to see your loved ones faces as you talk to them, and it's almost like being the same room with them. Now, another great way to say connected is by joining social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. These platforms allow us to, uh, stay in touch with people that we care about.

00:03:36
We can share updates, photos and messages, as well as see what, uh, your friends and families are up to. It's a whole new world of connection and it's amazing to see how it brings people together. Now, of course, sometimes there's nothing like a good old fashioned email or a text message to brighten someone's day. Regularly checking in with your friends

00:03:53
and families via email or messaging apps, like WhatsApp, can also help you stay connected even when you're miles apart. It's a quick way, uh, an easy way to show someone that you're thinking of them. And lastly, have you thought about participating in online forums or discussion groups related to your interests? These online communities are a great way

00:04:15
to stay connected with others who share your passion, from hobbies to interests, to support groups, and much more. You can find an online community where you feel welcome and engaged. It's a, a good way to make new friends and learn new things. As we age our needs and safety, and accessibility in the home may change. Making home modifications can help

00:04:37
seniors maintain their independence and live more comfortably in their homes. Well, here are some home modification suggestions that can enhance safety and accessibility for seniors. Well, installing grab bars in the bathroom, grab bars near the shower, toilet, and bathtub can provide extra support and reduce the risk of falls. Adding non-slip flooring or mats.

00:04:59
Slippery floors can be dangerous for anyone, but especially for seniors who may have difficulty recovering from a fall. So non-slip flooring or mats can provide additional traction and help prevent accidents. Widening doorways and hallways. Wider doorways and hallways can accommodate walkers, wheelchairs, and other mobility aids, making it easier

00:05:19
for seniors to navigate their home. Installing a stair lift or ramp. If stairs become difficult or unsafe to navigate, installing, uh, stair lift or ramp can provide a safer alternative. Adding better lighting. Good lighting is very important for visibility and safety. Consider adding additional lighting, especially in hallways,

00:05:41
stairways, and other areas where falls might be more likely. Rearranging furniture for clear pathways. This ensures that there are clear pathways throughout the home and reduce the risk of tripping or bumping into furniture. So let's talk about the importance of personal fulfillment in this phase of life, retirement. Retirement is a time to explore

00:06:01
new hobbies and interests, continuing lifelong learning, and cultivate meaningful relationships. Well, let's share some ideas and how we can find personal fulfillment in this phase. So first, let's talk about pursuing new hobbies or interests. It could be anything from painting, writing, dancing, or woodworking.

00:06:25
There's no better time to explore new hobbies and interests than during retirement. Trying new things can help keep your mind sharp, boost your mood, and provide a sense of accomplishment. Plus, it's always fun to discover new talents and passions. And how about traveling and exploring new places?

00:06:44
Retirement is a perfect time to see the world or even just explore in your own backyard. Whether you're interested in visiting far off destinations or taking day trips to local attractions, traveling can be an enriching and fulfilling experience. It's a great way to learn about different cultures, meet new people,

00:07:02
and create lifelong memories. Speaking of learning, did you know that continuing education doesn't have to stop when we retire? Many colleges and universities offer classes for seniors at a reduced rate, and there are also countless online courses available. Staying mentally active and engaged can help you maintain cognitive

00:07:23
function and overall well-being. So why not pick up a new skill or deepen your knowledge in the area that you've always been curious about? And let's not forget about fostering intergenerational connection. Connecting with younger generations can be mutually beneficial, providing seniors with a sense of purpose and younger people with valuable life lessons and wisdom.

00:07:48
You can volunteer at schools or youth programs, become mentors, or simply spend quality time with your grandchildren. These interactions can help bridge the generational gap and bring a sense of fulfillment to both parties. So there you have it. Retirement is an incredible opportunity to explore new passions, broaden your horizons,

00:08:06
strengthen connections with others. So let's talk about the importance of health and wellness during retirement years. You know that it's crucial for all of us to maintain our independence and continuing enjoy life to the fullest. So, let's go through a few tips on how you can prioritize your health and wellness. Well, first and foremost, let's talk

00:08:29
about staying physically active. Regular exercise is so important in maintaining strength, flexibility, and balance, which is so important, um, as you get older. Now, activities like walking, swimming, yoga, and tai chi can also be very enjoyable and easy on your joints, helping you stay active without putting too much strain on your body.

00:08:52
Now of course, we can't forget about eating well. Proper nutrition is vital for our overall health and well-being. We should focus on consuming a variety of fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, and whole grains. And don't forget to stay hydrated while drinking plenty of water. A well-balanced diet can make a world

00:09:10
of difference in how we feel day to day. Now, speaking of feeling great, it's important to get regular checkups. These medical visits can help detect health issues, early and ensure that we're staying on top of any necessary treatments and medications. So it's always better to be proactive about your health. Another important aspect of our

00:09:31
well-being is mental health. Is just as important as physical health. We should stay socially connected, engage with activities that bring us joy, and never hesitate to seek help from a mental health professional, if needed. Our mental health is so important. Uh, it's a huge part of enjoying our retirement years. So let's not forget about the

00:09:52
importance of good sleep hygiene. Getting enough rest is so important to overall health and well-being. Establishing a regular sleep schedule, creating a comfortable sleep environment, and avoiding stimulants like caffeine and electronics before bedtime can work wonders for your sleep quality. All right, so let's talk about the importance of staying connected with

00:10:17
friends and family in retirement. Social connections and support networks play a crucial role in maintaining mental and emotional well-being. Well, here are some tips for, uh, nurturing and building relationships in retirement. So put forth the effort in maintaining connections. It's, it's so important to actively

00:10:35
reach out to friends and family members on a regular basis. This can be done to various means, such as phone calls, video chats, or in-person visits. And maintaining these connections, you can help ward off feelings of loneliness and isolation that may sometimes come with retirement. Remember, prioritize attending

00:10:53
family events and celebrations. Ensure that you are present of family gatherings, holidays, and other special occasions. These events not only help forge lasting memories, but also work to reinforce and strengthen the bonds between family members. And by making it a priority to be part of these events,

00:11:13
they demonstrate the importance of family in your life. Now, seize the opportunity to reconnect with old friends. Retirement presents a unique chance to rekindle relationships with friends from earlier stages of your life. Take the initiative to contact former classmates, colleagues, or neighbors, and engage in conversations to catch up

00:11:32
and reminisce about shared experiences. Reconnecting with old friends can bring a sense of comfort and familiarity to your retirement years. Also, cultivate new friendships. Engage in activities that align with your interests and passions, such as joining some clubs, groups, organizations where you can meet like-minded individuals. This will enable you to form new

00:11:55
friendships and expand your social circle. Volunteering or taking part in community events can offer further opportunities to establish new connections. Um, these friendships can contribute to a more fulfilling and enjoyable retirement. As I mentioned before, embrace intergenerational connections. So avoid confining your social interactions to individuals

00:12:19
within your age group. Forming connections with people from different generations can offer fresh perspectives and enrich your life in unforeseen ways. Intergenerational friendships can provide valuable insights and experiences, bridging gaps in understanding and fostering mutual growth. So we've been talking a lot about enjoying

00:12:38
a fulfilling and independent retirement. So, I wanna highlight some key points, staying active and engaged in the community, maintaining social connections, prioritizing health and wellness, finding personal fulfillment with, uh, through hobbies, interests and lifelong learning. And by focusing on these aspects of retirement living, we can create a lifestyle that allows us to thrive

00:13:04
during this exciting new chapter of life. So remember, staying active in the community can take many forms by volunteering at local organizations to participating in neighborhood events. And by doing so, we not only contribute to the community, but also form new connections and friendships. It's so important to keep our social connections strong as they can

00:13:30
help us feel supported and loved during this phase of our lives. So make an effort to stay in touch with friends and family members, whether it's through phone calls, video chats, or in-person visits. And when it comes to health and wellness, we have to remember that taking care of our bodies and minds plays a critical role in maintaining our

00:13:49
independence and personal fulfillment. And by staying physically active, eating a well-balanced diet, regular, getting regular checkups and prioritizing mental health, we can enjoy longer and healthier lives. Another important aspect of a fulfilling retirement is personal fulfillment to hobbies, interests, and lifelong learning. Retirement is a great time to

00:14:12
explore new passions, travel to new places, continue our education. Embracing new experiences not only keeps us mentally sharp, but also adds excitement and joy to our lives. So, in addition to all these wonderful aspects of retirement living, let's not forget the importance of intergenerational connections. Spending time with younger

00:14:33
generations provides us a sense of purpose and allows us to share our valuable life lessons and wisdom. These connections can be incredibly rewarding for both parties. creating lasting bonds and enriching our lives. So, that's it for today's episode, "Golden Years, Living Life on Your Terms." I hope that you find the information

00:14:53
enjoyable and insightful. And remember, retirement is a time to celebrate your accomplishments and embrace new experiences. So stay curious, stay active, and above all, stay connected with the people who matter most to you.

Sam Altman: 00:00:00
One of the things we really believe is that the most responsible way to put this out in society is very gradually and to get people, institutions, policy makers, get them familiar with it thinking about the implications feeling the technology getting a sense for what it can do and can't do very early. There are societal changes that that ChatGPT is going to cause or is causing.

Hanh: 00:00:24
Hello, I'm Hanh Brown and welcome to today's presentation on ChatGPT, AI, and automation revolutionizing senior care and senior living in today's world. Technology has become an integral part of our lives and artificial intelligence is no exception. AI has become an essential tool for many industries including the senior care. So in recent years AI technology has advanced significantly leading to the development of ChatGPT. An AI model that has the ability to generate human like text with its advanced machine learning algorithms. ChatGPT can provide personalized care plans for seniors and enhanced communication and socializing among seniors. This has made it a promising tool for senior care and senior living marketing. So in today's presentation, we will explore the potential impact of ChatGPT and senior care and senior living marketing. We will discuss how Prompt Engineering can be used to enhance a senior care as well as how personalized.

Hanh: 00:01:32
Recommendations can improve the quality of care for seniors. We will also explore the potential impact of AI ChatBots and voice control assistance and senior care services and how user experience design can be used to create effective AI ChatBots for seniors. We will also discuss the ethical considerations of using AI and senior care as well as the potential cost savings and increase efficiency from marketing automation in the senior care organizations. We will also look at the potential impact of the AI and automation and employment in the senior care industry and discuss how to ensure the use of AI technology is consistent with established medical protocols and does not replace human interaction in senior care. Our goal for this presentation is to provide you with a comprehensive understanding of how ChatGPT, AI and automation are revolutionizing senior care. We hope that you will find this presentation informative and thought-provoking and that it will encourage you to think about these technologies

Hanh: 00:02:42
how it can be used to improve the quality of life for seniors. Topic 1. How can ChatGPT revolutionize senior care and senior living marketing? Well, imagine a world where seniors and their families can easily access personalized care options and services at any time of the day. A world where the discovery process of senior care is streamlined and made more efficient. A world where businesses in senior care and senior living marketing can improve their customer engagement and gain valuable insights into the needs and preferences of the seniors and their families. Well, this world is not far away and the key to this revolutionary change lives in ChatGPT. ChatGPT is an innovative AI technology developed by OpenAI that has the potential to revolutionize senior care. This cutting-edge technology can provide personalized and efficient customer service, reduced call center cost and provide valuable insights into the needs and preferences of seniors and their families. ChatGPT's conversational interface allows for natural language queries

Hanh: 00:03:56
making it easier for seniors and their families to find information they need quickly and conveniently. By providing 24-7 availability and quick responses, ChatGPT can help reduce stress and streamline the care and service discovery process. Also, the technology can analyze data generated from conversational interactions, providing businesses valuable insights into the needs of their target market. One of the potential benefits of using ChatGPT in the senior care is improved customer engagement. The conversational interface can help build trust and royalty between the customer and the business, leading to a better customer experience. Well, this can help businesses gain a competitive advantage by providing more personalized and efficient services to seniors and their families. However, it's important to note that the use of ChatGPT is not a silver bullet and should be used as part of a broader strategy to improve the quality of care and services provided to seniors. Businesses need to comply with regulations regarding the use of AI in the provisions of care services. Well, despite these challenges, the potential benefits of using ChatGPT in the senior care and senior living marketing are enormous. ChatGPT can help seniors and their families make informed decisions about their care options and services, leading to a better quality of life.

Hanh: 00:05:28
So by providing a more engaging and personalized interaction with businesses, seniors and their families can have a better customer experience, leading to a better customer loyalty and retention. As the field of artificial intelligence continues to develop, ChatGPT is likely to become an increasingly important tool in the senior care. So it's important for senior care and senior living providers to understand the potential benefits and limitations of ChatGPT and to use it as a part of a broader strategy to improve the quality of care and services they provide. So next, I will go to a chart revolutionizing senior care and how ChatGPT is changing senior living marketing. This chart shows that ChatGPT can transform senior care and senior living marketing into main ways by providing personalized care and by improving communication. So these two pathways can be further broken down into specific methods that ChatGPT can use to achieve these goals. So under personalized care, ChatGPT can use machine learning to analyze health records and user inputs to create customized care plans for seniors. This could lead to a better health outcomes for seniors as their care plans will be tailored to their specific needs and preferences. And under improved communication, ChatGPT can use conversational AI to understand and respond to natural language inputs, helping to bridge language and communication barriers.

Hanh: 00:07:05
And this can also provide real-time updates and notification to caregivers and health care providers, helping to improve coordination and ensure that seniors receive timely care. ChatGPT has the potential to revolutionize senior care by providing a more personalized and efficient way for seniors and their families to find information about care options and services. And by analyzing data generated from conversational interactions, businesses in their industry can better understand the needs of their target market and improve their product and services to meet the needs of seniors and their families. While the use of ChatGPT is not a silver bullet, it can help improve the quality of care and services provided to seniors when used as part of a broader strategy. Topic 2. What is Prompt Engineering? And how can ChatGPT enhance senior care and senior living marketing? Well, imagine a world where seniors are receiving personalized care that cater to their specific needs, where caregivers have access to all the information they need to provide the best possible treatment. Well, this is a world where Prompt Engineering with ChatGPT has revolutionized senior care. Prompt Engineering is like an architect who designs the blueprint for the building. It's a process of designing and crafting the text that prompts a machine learning model. The goal is to create a set of inputs that produce the desired output in the model.

Hanh: 00:08:39
In other words, Prompt Engineering is like a conductor of an orchestra ensuring that every note is played at the right time in the right key. It guides the ChatGPT model to generate outputs that are suitable for senior care tasks, making sure that the seniors received personalized care. Prompt Engineering with ChatGPT is a process of designing and crafting the text that prompts an AI machine learning model. So next, I'll go through the diagram criteria for successful Prompt Engineering. So this diagram outlines the key criteria for creating effective prompts for ChatGPT, including clarity, creativity, and engagement, relevance, and specificity, completeness, and consistency, and user feedback. Now remember, clear prompts are important for easy understanding and engagement. Creative and engaging language encourages the users to continue the conversation. Tailoring prompts to users needs and specific situations help ChatGPT to provide accurate and helpful responses. Complete and consistent prompts ensure a seamless conversation experience.

Hanh: 00:09:57
User feedback whether to direct questions or other means helps ChatGPT improve performance in its user's needs. So when you follow these guidelines, the prompts can be effective and engaging, and it will help ChatGPT better understand and respond to your queries. This process helps ensure that the model generates text that is relevant, coherent, and consistent with the intended purpose of the output. ChatGPT is an AI model that has the ability to generate human-like text and is capable of a range of natural language processing tasks such as text generation, language translation, and much more. One of the benefits of Prompt Engineering with ChatGPT in senior care is personalized care. The ChatGPT model can be trained to generate responses that are specific to the senior's needs, such as medication reminders, dietary recommendations, or exercise advice. This personalized care can help seniors live a healthier lifestyle promoting their overall well-being. For example, the model can be prompted to remind seniors to take their medication as specific times of the day or provide personalized, dietary recommendations based on the senior's medical history. Caregivers can prompt ChatGPT with specific questions about senior care, and the model can generate responses that provide useful information on various aspects of senior care. For instance, the model can be prompted to provide information about the benefits of certain types of exercises.

Hanh: 00:11:37
This information can help caregivers provide better care to seniors ensuring that they are receiving the best possible treatment. So here are some samples that I would consider to be effective prompts in terms of clarity, here are some questions, or here are some prompts. How can seniors maintain their independence while also receiving the care they need? Another example, what are the benefits of in-home care for seniors, and how can families find reliable caregivers. So in terms of creativity and engagement, here are some good prompts. If you could design a perfect community for seniors, what amenities and services would you include? Another one, if you could design a program to help seniors learn new skills and hobbies, what would that look like in terms of relevance? What are some practical tips for family members who are caring for a senior with Alzheimer's or dementia? What are some common safety concerns for seniors who are living alone, and how can they be addressed? So in terms of completeness and consistency, here are some good prompts.

Hanh: 00:12:47
What are the different types of senior care options available, and how do they differ in terms of services and costs? Another good prompt, in terms of completeness and consistency? What are the different types of senior housing options, and how do they differ in terms of amenities and costs? In terms of user feedback, what do seniors themselves have to say about the challenges and rewards of aging? What do seniors themselves have to say about the most important factors to consider when choosing a retirement community? As you can see, these are good prompts because it has clarity, creativity, and engagement, relevance, completeness, and consistency, and user feedback. Well, here are some examples of not so good or non-effective prompts for senior care. What's the point of taking care of seniors? They're just going to die anyway. How can we make sure seniors don't burden the healthcare system too much? Why are seniors always so forgetful and confused?

Hanh: 00:13:49
Is it just normal part of aging? What's the cheapest way to care for seniors without sacrificing their basic needs? Why do some seniors refuse to take their medication, even when it's prescribed by a doctor? Are they just plain stubborn? Why do we even bother trying to help seniors? They're just a drain on resources. How can we get seniors to stop being so forgetful and disorganize all the time? What's the best way to convince a senior to give up their independence and move in with family? Why do some seniors refuse to take their medications, even when they know it's important for their health? How can we cut cause when it comes to caring for seniors without sacrificing quality of care? So, as you can see, these are not good prompts. And you will not get the answer that you're looking for. And often, ChatGPT will create its own answers, and that's called hallucination.

Hanh: 00:14:44
So, I hope this helps you understand what's effective and non-effective prompts in senior care for ChatGPT. Well, the use of ChatGPT in senior care is not without challenges. One of the challenges is the need to ensure that the model's responses are accurate and consistent with established medical protocols. Well, this can be achieved through the use of appropriate data sources, the use of appropriate language models, and the involvement of healthcare professionals in the development and deployment of the model. Another challenge is the need to ensure that the use of ChatGPT does not replace human interaction in senior care. It's important to recognize that seniors still need human interaction and that AI models like ChatGPT should not be used as a substitute for human care. As the field of artificial intelligence continues to develop, Prompt Engineering with ChatGPT will become an increasingly important tool in senior care. So, it's important to ensure that the use of ChatGPT is accurate, consistent with the established medical protocol, and does not replace human interaction in senior care. So, the future of care is here. Prompt Engineering with ChatGPT is leading the way providing personalized care and assistant caregivers providing the best possible treatment.

Hanh: 00:16:10
Topic 3. Can personalized recommendations enhance senior living marketing? Well, seniors in their families search for retirement homes. They can be overwhelmed with numerous actions available. This search can be frustrating and time-consuming, making it difficult to find the perfect place that feels like home. However, personalized recommendations can be a game-changer in senior living marketing. Personalized recommendations provide tailored options based on the individual's needs and preferences, enhancing the customer experience in senior living marketing in many ways. They can lead to positive and frictionless interactions with customers, which can increase customer loyalty. Customers remember highly positive experiences and seek them out in the future, and making personalized recommendations important in senior living marketing where the customer experience is critical. The importance of personalized recommendations goes beyond improving customer experience. They can also drive sales and increase customer loyalty. When seniors and their families feel that their unique needs are being met, they are more likely to trust the brand and become loyal customers. In senior living marketing, where trust and reliability are paramount, personalized recommendations can provide a competitive advantage in a crowded market. Next, I'll go through the diagram personalized recommendations in hand senior living marketing. This diagram highlights the importance of personalization in senior living marketing and the various strategies to achieve it.

Hanh: 00:17:52
So, the main branches of this mind map include understanding senior living market, the importance of personalization in senior living marketing, and strategies for personalized senior living marketing. Now, understanding senior living marketing has three sub branches, including demographics, trends in senior living, and market segmentation. The demographic covers age, gender, income, wealth, education, and lifestyle. Their trends in senior living focus on aging in place, technology adoption, health, and wellness. Market segmentation divides the senior living market into three main categories, independent living, assisted living, and memory care. The importance of personalization in senior living marketing branches covers the benefits of personalization, which include customizing services, tailoring experience, and building relationships. Customizing services refers to creating personalized meal plans, activities, transportation options for seniors. Tailoring experience involves adapting a resident centered approach, involving family members, and providing staff training and empathy. Building relationships refers to fostering a sense of community and using communication channels to improve feedback and survey. Now, strategies for personalized senior living marketing branch is further divided into four sub branches, including customer research, digital marketing, content marketing, and referral programs.

Hanh: 00:19:28
Customer research involves gathering feedback through surveys, interviews, focus groups, and analytics. Digital marketing includes optimizing your website, SEO, social media, and paid advertising. Content marketing involves creating informative blogs, infographics, videos, and testimonials. Referral programs refers to incentivizing referral, partnering with professionals, and tracking and monitoring results. So, this diagram highlights the importance of personalization in senior living marketing, various strategies to achieve it in the sub and the key sub topics under each branch. So, it's useful for senior living marketing professionals who are seeking to create effective and personalized marketing campaigns with their target audience. Employees play a critical role in providing customized experience without proper training and employee buy-in. Even the best system will fall short. Senior care marketing must prioritize employee training and engagement to optimize the customer experience. Now, to deliver personalized recommendations, senior care marketing must understand the customer's needs and pain points. By looking at the brand from the customer's perspective and identifying their unique desires and challenges, senior living marketing can provide recommendations that truly make a difference.

Hanh: 00:20:56
It's like trying to buy a perfect pair of shoes, but if you don't know the customer's size, style, and preferences, you'll never be able to deliver the right recommendations. When senior care marketing tailors recommendations to individual needs and desires, they can show that they recognize the customers as an individual and not just a number. Investment in personalized recommendation systems or tools is an important consideration. While upfront costs may seem daunting, the long-term benefits are well worth it, implementing systems and tools that gather data and personalized recommendations can create a more efficient and effective process. The key is to find the right balance between investment and return, and to prioritize the needs and desires of the customer, personalized recommendations are crucial component of senior living marketing. Delivering personalized recommendations requires a commitment to employee training and engagement and understanding of the customer's needs and pain points and an investment in the right tools and system. Topic 4. How ChatGPT can be used to enhance personalized care plans for seniors? Well, as the population ages, there is an increasing need for personalized care plans that take into account the unique needs and preferences of each individual. One potential tool for creating these tailored care plans is ChatGPT, the AI Power Chatbot that can learn and adapt to the individual's needs and preferences. By leveraging the power of natural language processing and machine learning, ChatGPT has the potential to revolutionize the way personalized care plans are created and implemented for older adults.

Hanh: 00:22:42
ChatGPT can be used to monitor a senior's health and well-being, remind them to take their medication and provide social support when needed. So ChatBots can be utilized to create personalized care plans that take into account the individual's unique needs and preferences. By learning and adapting to the senior's habits and routines, ChatBots can help create customized care plans that are tailored to the individual's needs. Well, ChatBots like ChatGPT can help seniors who have limited mobility or live alone by providing a sense of companionship and support. Also, ChatBots can assist seniors with daily tasks such as medication reminders and appointment scheduling. The ability of ChatGPT to provide social support and companionship to older adults can be a potential benefit. By providing a platform for natural language conversations, ChatGPT can help older adults do more engage and involve in their care plans. This can have a positive impact on their mental and emotional well-being as well as their overall physical health. ChatGPT can also provide practical assistance such as medication reminders and appointment scheduling. This can be especially helpful for older adults who have memory loss or limited mobility as it can ensure that they receive the care they need on a regular basis.

Hanh: 00:24:09
So next, I will go through the slide how ChatGPT enhances personalized care plans for seniors. Well, this diagram outlines the steps involved in using ChatGPT to create and enhance personalized care plans for seniors. Well, the first step is to gather information about a senior, including basic demographic information, medical history, current medications, dietary, dietary restrictions, personal preferences and interests. This information will help caregivers understand their needs and preferences of seniors. The next step is to understand personal preferences and needs which involves assessing the senior's hobbies, interests, social support network, culture, background, spiritual beliefs, mobility and transportation needs. This information helps caregivers create personalized care plans that meet the unique needs of each senior. The third step is to assess medical conditions and treatment options. This involves conducting a comprehensive health assessment, identifying chronic conditions, evaluating treatment options, and coordinating the medical providers to ensure that seniors receive the necessary care. So after gathering this information, the next step is to develop a personalized care plan. This involves establishing goals and objectives, identifying resources and support, treating a care plan for activities of daily living and developing a plan for medication management.

Hanh: 00:25:41
The next step is to identify areas where ChatGPT can assist, such as providing reminders for medication appointments, suggesting recreational activities, offering emotional support and companionship and providing assistance for daily living. So once identified, the next step is to integrate ChatGPT into the care plan. This involves determining the frequency and type of interaction, training seniors and caregivers on the use of ChatGPT and implementing the appropriate security measures. The next step is to provide assistance and support via ChatGPT. This involves responding to requests for assistance, providing emotional support and companionship, offering suggestions for activities, and monitoring medication and appointment reminders. The last step is to continuously update and improve the care plan. This involves monitoring progress and adjusting the goals, evaluating the efficacy of ChatGPT interventions, reviewing and updating the care plan as needed. And of course, continuously improving the quality of care. So as you can see by integrating ChatGPT into the care plan, caregivers can improve the quality of care provided to seniors. With the ability to learn and adapt the individual's needs and preferences, ChatGPT can provide customized support and assistance that is tailored to the unique situation.

Hanh: 00:27:08
By providing both social and practical assistance, ChatGPT can help improve the quality of life of older adults and provide a piece of mind to their loved ones. Topic 5. ChatGPT's potential impact on improving communication and socializing for seniors. By providing a natural language interface that seniors can use to interact with the system, ChatGPT can help seniors stay connected with their loved ones, engage in social activities, and improve their overall quality of life. And one of the biggest challenges that many seniors face is staying connected with their loved ones as they age. Well, this can be particularly difficult for seniors who live alone or have limited mobility as they may not have regular opportunities to socialize with others. Well, ChatGPT can help address this challenge by providing a way for seniors to interact with family members, friends, and caregivers using natural language. For example, the senior could use ChatGPT to send a message to family members as for assistance with a task or simply have a conversation. In addition to helping seniors stay connected with loved ones, ChatGPT can also facilitate social activities that can improve seniors overall well-being. For example, ChatGPT could provide information on local events such as senior centers or community gatherings, which seniors could attend to meet new people and engage with new activities. ChatGPT could also facilitate group activities such as book clubs or exercise classes, which seniors could participate in remotely through a system.

Hanh: 00:28:51
By providing access to these social activities, ChatGPT could help seniors improve their social connections and reduce feelings of loneliness and isolation. Of course, there are some potential challenges that need to be considered when introducing ChatGPT to seniors. Well, for example, some seniors may not be comfortable using technology or may have difficulty using natural language interface. To address these challenges, ChatGPT could be designed with a simple user-friendly interface that is easy to navigate. Also, ChatGPT could be introduced gradually to seniors, with training and support provided to help them become more comfortable with the system. Another potential challenge is privacy and security concerns. Seniors may be hesitant to share personal information or communicate with others through an AI-based system. To address these concerns, ChatGPT could be designed with robust privacy and security features that protect seniors' personal information and ensure that their communications are kept confidential. Additionally, ChatGPT could be designed to prioritize trusted contacts such as family members or caregivers to ensure that seniors are communicating with people they know and trust. Well, despite these potential challenges, the benefits of introducing ChatGPT to senior care are numerous.

Hanh: 00:30:17
By improving communication and social ability, ChatGPT has the potential to improve seniors' quality of life and reduce feelings of loneliness and isolation. There are some potential drawbacks that need to be considered when introducing ChatGPT to seniors. Well, for example, seniors may become overly dependent on the system and may rely on it for socialization to the exclusion of other activities. To address this issue, ChatGPT could be designed to encourage seniors to engage in a variety of social activities, both through this system and in person. Well, ultimately, the potential benefits introducing a ChatGPT to seniors are substantial. And by improving communication and social ability, ChatGPT can help seniors stay connected with loved ones, engage in social activities. Topic 6. The ethical considerations of using AI and senior care and senior living marketing. Well, as we age, our needs and preferences change. And this is where AI can play a crucial role in senior care and senior living marketing. AI can help tailor care plans and provide better support for residents.

Hanh: 00:31:28
It can also improve marketing strategies and ultimately lead to higher return and investment. However, the use of AI and senior care and senior living marketing raises ethical concerns. The safety and privacy of personal data is paramount. And companies must take measures to ensure that any data collected is protected from theft, misuse, or unauthorized access. It must also work with ethical AI providers to ensure that their algorithms are transparent, impartial, and unbiased. Now, companies must ensure that they have the necessary consent from their residents before collecting and using their personal data. It's important for companies to have a clear policy on the use of AI, including its limitations and how it can be used to enhance residents' experiences. To help illustrate the importance of responsible AI use, let's imagine a senior living community that uses AI to tailor care plans for residents. Well, without proper safeguards, personal data could fall into the wrong hands, potentially leading to identity theft and other types of fraud. So if the AI algorithms are biased, equally to discrimination, resulting in residents not receiving the care or attention they need or deserve.

Hanh: 00:32:51
So it's important to take a proactive approach to ethical AI use in avoid such scenarios. As we continue to integrate AI to senior care and senior living marketing, it's important to prioritize the safety and privacy of personal data and ensure that the algorithms use are impartial and unbiased. Now, imagine a group of seniors who are considering moving into a senior living community. The marketing team uses AI to target specific individuals based on their interests and preferences, ultimately leading to a personalized marketing approach. Without proper safeguards in place, personal data could be misused, leading to a loss of trust and credibility. In contrast, suppose the marketing team uses ethical AI that prioritizes transparency, impartiality, and privacy. Well, in that case, they can develop a marketing strategy that provides personalized solutions without compromising the individual safety or privacy. Build is a marketing campaign that builds trust and credibility while also enhancing the resident's experiences. Also, using AI to monitor residents' health and detect potential health risks can also enhance the safety and well-being of seniors. However, companies must ensure that they have the necessary consent from the residents before collecting and using their personal data.

Hanh: 00:34:17
The use of ethical AI that prioritizes privacy and transparency can help your trust and credibility, ultimately leading to a safer and more secure environment for residents. So AI has enormous potential to improve senior care and senior living marketing, but it's important to ensure that it's used as ethical and responsible. And by taking the necessary steps to protect personal data and ensure that the algorithms used are impartial and unbiased. Now, as we continue to explore the potential of AI in this industry, so let's prioritize ethical consideration to ensure that it's used as always for the betterment of the seniors. Topic 7. How senior care organizations can increase efficiency and save costs with marketing automation. As a senior care marketer, you're no stranger to the challenges of working with a small team and a tight budget. But what if there was a way to increase efficiency, generate more leads, and improve resident care outcomes without breaking the bank? Well, enter marketing automation, again, change here for senior care organizations looking to gain the competitive advantage. Well, think of marketing automation as your personal assistant that works 24-7 never kicks a day out and doesn't make mistakes by automating marketing tasks such as email campaigns, lead generation, and social media posts. Senior care organizations can save time and resources, increase efficiency and ultimately improve resident care outcomes.

Hanh: 00:35:54
So how exactly can marketing automation benefit senior care organizations? By segmenting your audience based on demographics, interests, behavior, you can tailor your content to their needs and preferences, increasing engagement and conversion rates. This can lead to more residents, more revenues, and ultimately better resident care outcomes. But implementing marketing automation is not an easy task. It requires the right strategy and tools to be successful. Well, here are some best practices for implementing marketing automation in senior care organizations. Identify the right marketing automation tool for your needs. With so many marketing automation tools available, it's important to choose the one that fits your organization's needs, consider factors such as ease of use, affordability, and integrations with other tools. Develop a clear marketing automation strategy. A clear marketing automation strategy is so important to ensure that your organization's goals and objectives are met.

Hanh: 00:36:54
The strategy should include specific goals, metrics, and an implementation plan. Segment your audience. Segmenting your audience based on demographics, interests, and behavior will help you tailor your content to their needs and preferences. This will increase engagement and conversion rates. Creating engaging content that resonates with your audience is key to the success of marketing automation efforts. Content should be informative, educational, and relevant to the needs of your audience. Remember to continuously measure and optimize your marketing automation efforts. Measuring the effectiveness of your marketing automation efforts will help you identify areas of improvements and optimize strategy for better results. The potential cost savings and increase efficiency for marketing automation can make a significant difference for senior care organizations. By freeing up staff time, reducing errors and increasing productivity, senior care organizations can provide better care for more people, ultimately leading to improved resident care outcomes. While the cost of implementing marketing automation varies depending on the size of the organization, the tools used in the level of customization required and the potential benefits make it a worthwhile investment.

Hanh: 00:38:13
Implementing marketing automation is not an easy task, but with the right tools and strategy, it can be a game changer for senior care organizations looking to gain a competitive advantage. So next, I will go through this table cost savings and increase efficiency for marketing automation in senior care. This table explains the potential benefits of using marketing automation in senior care. It refers to using technology to automate marketing tasks, which can help senior care facilities save time and money. The table highlights five areas where marketing automation can be beneficial. Email campaign, social media marketing, lead nurturing, reporting analytics and event management. Email campaigns can help senior care communities save money on printing and mailing costs and improve communication with seniors and their families. Social media marketing can reduce advertising costs by targeting specific demographics and interests while increasing engagement with seniors and their families. Lead nurturing involves automating follow-up calls and emails to potential clients, which can save time and improve lead conversions rates and customer retention. Reporting an analytic refers to using automation tools to track and analyze marketing data, which can improve the tracking of marketing ROI and effectiveness.

Hanh: 00:39:38
Event management can help senior care facilities save time and money by automating event planning and coordination leading to increase attendance and engagement at events. So by adapting marketing automation tools and strategies, senior care communities can improve their marketing efforts, optimize their resources and provide more effective and efficient care to the residents. So marketing automation can be a valuable tool for senior care communities to achieve cost savings and increase efficiencies in various areas of their marketing efforts. So next, we'll go through the similarities and differences between voice control assistance in AI and AI conversational ChatBot share similarities, but they are not the same. Voice control assistance is a technology that allows users to interact with devices using voice commands. Some examples include Amazon's Alexa and Apple's Siri. Now on the other hand, AI conversational ChatBots are computer programs designed to simulate conversation with human users through text or voice interfaces. Voice control assistance are designed to perform specific tests such as playing music or controlling smart home devices. In contrast, ChatBots are more versatile and can be customized to perform a range of tests from answering customer queries to providing personalized product recommendations. While voice control assistance are designed for hands-free use, ChatBots are used in messaging apps or on websites to provide instant assistance to users. So in senior care services, both technologies have the potential to improve the care experience for seniors. However, AI conversation of ChatBots offer more advanced features and functionalities.

Hanh: 00:41:33
Chatbots can provide personalized assistance and monitor seniors health conditions while voice control assistance is limited to performing basic tests. While both technologies can work together to provide a comprehensive and seamless care experience for seniors, voice control assistance is designed for specific tests while ChatBots are more versatile and customizable. While both technologies have the potential to improve senior care services, ChatBots offer more advanced features and functionalities. So next, I will go through a table comparison of AI conversational ChatBots and voice control assistance. This table highlights the differences between the two types of AI tools. Chatbots use text or voice communication and have a screen-based interface while voice control assistance are screen less and use only voice commands. The ChatBots are focused on specific tests while voice control assistance can perform a wider range of tests. Both can be personalized and integrated to different systems, but ChatBots may struggle with complex queries while voice control assistance may have issues with ambient noise. Chatbots are used in multiple platforms and can offer interactive multimedia experiences while voice control assistance will provide a hands-free experience. Chatbots can support multiple languages while voice control assistance may have limitations in recognizing accents and dialects.

Hanh: 00:43:09
So the choice between them depends on the user's needs and goals. Topic 8. How can AI conversational ChatBots improve senior care services? Well, according to the recent study published in the Journal of Medical Research, AI conversational ChatBots were found to improve patient satisfaction, reduced hospital readmission, and provide valuable insights for care providers. Well, these results demonstrate the potential of AI conversational ChatBots to transform the senior care industry. One of the most significant benefits of AI ChatBots is their ability to provide 24-7 availability, reducing the need for in-person care. Well, this is especially important for seniors who live alone or have mobility issues. With AI ChatBots, seniors can get assistance at any time, reducing the risk of falls or other emergencies. AI ChatBots can also provide personalized interaction, making the care experience more enjoyable for seniors. Chatbots can learn from previous interactions with seniors, making the interaction more personalized over time.

Hanh: 00:44:17
Well, this personalization can significantly improve the quality of care, as ChatBots can provide tailored recommendations in support based on the seniors' individual needs and preferences. Another significant benefit of AI ChatBots is their ability to monitor seniors' health conditions. Well, ChatBots can track seniors' vital signs and symptoms, alerting caregivers or health care professionals if necessary. Well, this can significantly improve the quality of care for seniors with chronic conditions, reducing the risk of complications or hospitalization. AI ChatBots can also provide social engagement for seniors, offering conversation and entertainment. Well, this is especially important for seniors to live alone or have limited social interaction. Well, ChatBots can provide seniors with a sense of companionship, reducing the risk of loneliness and depression. Topic 9. Well, can voice control assistants, revolutionize daily assistance for seniors? According to the recent study published in the Journal of Medical Research, voice control devices can help seniors with dementia and cognitive impairment to maintain their independence and reduce their caregiver burden. The study found that voice control devices help seniors with dementia to complete tasks more independently, reducing the burden and caregivers and improving overall quality of life.

Hanh: 00:45:45
These findings highlight the potential benefits of voice control assistance for seniors with cognitive impairment and the importance of continuing research in this area. Voice control assistance can improve the quality of life for seniors by providing them with greater sense of independence and control over their daily lives. Seniors can use voice control devices to accomplish a wide range of tasks, including setting reminders, making phone calls and controlling their home environment. By making these tasks easier and more accessible, voice control assistance can help seniors maintain their independence and reduce their reliance and others for assistance. Voice control assistance can also improve communication and reduce social isolation among seniors. Many seniors struggle with hearing loss, which can make it difficult for them to communicate with others, voice control devices can be used to amplify sound and make it easier for seniors to hear and participate in conversations. Voice control devices can be used for video calls and messaging, allowing seniors to stay in touch with family and friends, either even if they cannot physically be together. Another benefit of voice control assistance for seniors is that it can be customized to meet the individual's needs. For example, seniors with mobility issues can use voice control devices to control their home environment, including lights, temperature, and even their TV. This customization can improve the quality of life for seniors and make it easier for them to live independently in their own homes.

Hanh: 00:47:19
One of the main advantages of voice control assistance for seniors is its ease of use. With voice commands, seniors can control their devices without the need for complicated instructions or manual dexterity. This can be particularly helpful for seniors with mobility issues or cognitive impairments. Voice control assistance can help seniors maintain their independence and reduce their frustration with technology, improving their overall quality of life. A voice control assistance has the potential to revolutionize daily assistance for seniors. By providing hands-free assistance with daily tasks, communication, and entertainment, voice control devices can be tailored to meet the individual's needs of seniors, including those with mobility or cognitive impairment. Topic 10. The role of user experience design in creating effective AI ChatBots for seniors. The senior population is growing, and so is the need for user-friendly and accessible technologies to assist them. The introduction of AI ChatBots provides an excellent opportunity to cater to their needs. However, developing AI ChatBots that cater to the needs of seniors is not an easy task.

Hanh: 00:48:32
It requires a deep understanding of their unique needs, challenges, and limitations. The role of user interface design in creating effective AI ChatBots for seniors cannot be overstated. Creating AI ChatBots that cater to the needs of seniors requires a good understanding of their unique needs and challenges. Seniors may have vision and hearing impairments which require larger font sizes, high contrast colors, and closed captions. The ChatBot must also be accessible to those with mobility issues and allow for hands-free use. It's important to provide clear and concise instructions to seniors and create a simple and user-friendly interface. Well, without these, seniors may not be able to interact with ChatBots effectively. The conversational interface of AI ChatBots is critical to the success. Seniors often prefer a natural language interface that allows them to converse with ChatBots as if they were talking to a real person. The ChatBot must be able to understand and interpret natural language and provide appropriate responses.

Hanh: 00:49:39
The use of humor and empathy can also make the ChatBot experience more engaging and enjoyable for seniors. The conversational interface can make the experience of using AI ChatBots more natural and less intimidating for seniors. To provide a useful experience for seniors, AI ChatBots must be able to provide personalized and relevant responses. They must gather information about the user's preferences and need to provide tailored responses. The use of machine learning algorithms can help the ChatBot improve its responses over time and provide more accurate and relevant information. Well, this can lead to more positive experiences and reduced frustration that can come with generic or irrelevant responses. Now, seniors are often concerned about their privacy and security when interacting with technology. The user interface designers must ensure that the ChatBot is secure and protect user data from being stolen or misused. The ChatBot must be transparent about the information it collects and how it is used. It must also allow users to easily control their privacy settings.

Hanh: 00:50:48
The user interface designers must be sure that seniors can trust the ChatBot if they're safe while using it. Now, user testing is a very important part of the user interface design process when designing AI ChatBots for seniors. The designers must conduct user testing with seniors to gather feedback on the ChatBot's usability, interface, and effectiveness. Well, this feedback can help the UI designers improve the ChatBot's functionality and the user experience and ensure that it meets the needs of this target audience. The user testing can also help identify and address usability issues that may not have been apparent during the design process. AI ChatBots can provide valuable assistance and support to seniors. They can improve the quality of life for seniors by providing companionship, support, and assistance with daily tasks. However, AI ChatBots cannot replace human caregivers for seniors. They can assist and support seniors, but they cannot replace the personal care and attention that human caregivers provide. The user interface designers must keep this in mind when designing AI ChatBots for seniors.

Hanh: 00:52:01
Next, I will go through this diagram, the role of user experience design in creating effective AI ChatBots for seniors. The summary is below. The designers must consider seniors' unique needs and preferences when creating functional and user friendly ChatBots that provide access to the care and resources they need. The design consideration explanation is clear and simple language, so use clear and simple language that is easy for seniors to understand. Large and legible text. Use large and legible text that is easy to read for seniors with vision impairments. Intuitive navigation. Or use easy to use navigation that is intuitive that requires minimal instructions which seniors who may not be familiar with modern technology. Emphasis and key information. Ensure that key information is presented clearly and is easy to find so that it will help seniors sort through irrelevant information. Personalization implement. Well, personalization features that tailor the ChatBots responses and interactions to the individual seniors' needs and preferences, empathy and emotional design. The emotional design element that help the ChatBot connect with seniors on a more personal level and provide human-like tone and empathy. Topic 11. The impact of AI and automation on employment in the senior care industry. Well, the senior care industry is like a ship navigating through some rough waters, facing challenges that threaten to capsize it. But there is a beacon of hope on the horizon, the promise of AI and automation. These technologies had the potential to be the lighthouse that guides the ship to safety.

Hanh: 00:53:53
But they also pose a risk of leading it to a strike. The senior care industry is a vital part of society, providing care to the vulnerable individuals who need assistance with daily living activities. However, the industry is facing significant challenges, including a shortage of staff, rising costs and aging workforce. The pandemic has only worsened these challenges, leading organizations struggling to keep up with the demand of care. So, AI and automation are being touted as a solution to these challenges. Robots can provide assistance with daily living activities, reducing the burden on human workers. AI-powered ChatBots can provide companionship, any motion of support, addressing the loneliness and the social isolation that many seniors face. Well, these technologies can also improve the quality of care, ensuring that patients receive the attention and treatment they need. Well, but there is a flip side to the coin. There are concerns that AI and automation could replace human workers, leading to job displacement and economic instability. Well, there are ethical concerns surrounding the use of these technologies in providing care to the vulnerable individuals. Will machines be able to provide the same level of empathy and compassion that human caregivers can? Well, the answer is not clear cut, and the industry must navigate this challenge with caution. It's estimated that 1.5 million healthcare jobs will be displaced by 2028 due to automation.

Hanh: 00:55:24
Now, this number is likely to change by the time that you listen to this, so take it with a grand assault. So this is a staggering number regardless. It's very important that the industry takes proactive steps to address this issue. One way to do this is by investing in training programs for workers to acquire new skills. Well, this will ensure that they remain relevant in a changing landscape and are equipped to handle new technologies that emerge. So companies can also partner with technology providers to develop solutions tailored to the needs of the industry. This will ensure that technologies being developed are aligned with the industry's values and priorities and are not just focused on cutting costs and increasing efficiency. This will also create new job opportunities in areas such as software development, data analysis and maintenance. Perhaps the most important step the organizations can take is to develop policies that address the ethical concerns surrounding the use of AI and automation. This includes ensuring that the use of these technologies is aligned with the industry's values and priorities and that vulnerable individuals are not exploited for profit. It also means ensuring that the quality of care is not compromised and that machines are not used as a substitute for human caregivers.

Hanh: 00:56:47
Well, thank you so much for joining me in this presentation on how ChatGPT, AI and automation are revolutionizing senior care and senior living. We've explored several fascinating topics about the potential impact of AI and senior care and senior living marketing. We've learned about the Prompt Engineering, personalized recommendations, personalized care plans, communication, socialization, ethics, cost savings, marketing automation, AI ChatBots and voice control assistance and UI design and the impact on employment. Well, as we have seen, AI can have a profound impact on senior care from improving communication and socialization to creating personalized care plans that cater to each senior's unique needs. The potential cost savings and increase efficiency that come from marketing automation and senior care organizations are significant. And the rise of AI ChatBots and voice control assistance can provide seniors with 24-7 access to personalized care and assistance. As we continue to explore these exciting opportunities, we must also consider the ethical implications of AI and senior care and senior living marketing. We must ensure that we maintain a human centered approach to these advancements and always keep the well-being of our seniors as our top priority. So in conclusion, ChatGPT AI and automation have a potential to transform senior care, providing seniors with personalized care, increased socialization and greater independence. The possibilities are endless and we must continue to innovate and explore the ways in which AI can help us create a better world for our seniors.

Hanh: 00:58:33
Well, thank you so much for your time and attention and I hope that this presentation has inspired you to explore the possibilities of AI in senior care and senior living marketing.

00:00:00
Hi, I'm Hanh Brown, and thank you so much for joining us today, focusing on the importance of serving older adults. Well, we've had such a great response from every corner of the globe, and I'd like to take a moment to express my sincere gratitude for each and every one of you who has taken their time out of your busy schedules to be here with us today. It's so important that we come together as a collective community and share our knowledge and experiences when it comes to understanding how best to serve this incredibly important demographic. So, that being said, what interests you about this topic? Maybe it's something personal, such as an experience with one or more family members, or friends perhaps, or it could be something related to your profession, or maybe it's simply because you recognize the need for greater awareness around senior care services and want to contribute in some way. As the world becomes more and more digitized, it's clear that we need new tools to support and enhance communication and collaboration, and that's exactly what Metaverse does. Well, think about it. The Metaverse is a virtual space where users can interact in 3D environments just like the real world. It's immersive and interactive, and it's going to change the way we think about socializing and interacting with one another.

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And that's especially true for some seniors. The Metaverse revolutionizes how seniors interact with each other by allowing them to stay socially active no matter where they are or what their physical condition is. With the Metaverse, seniors can stay connected to their friends and loved ones even if they can't leave their homes. It's a future of communication and collaboration, and it's going to change the game for seniors. Today's topic is Older Adults and Metaverse, 10 Things You Need to Know. Topic 1. What is Metaverse and how does it differ from social media and chat room? Topic 2. What activities and experiences can older adults have in the Metaverse? Topic 3. What are the pros and cons of living in a Metaverse for older adults? Topic 4. What safety measures should be taken when older adults use Metaverse? Topic 5. How will older adults' social lives be affected by the introduction of Metaverse? Topic 6. What effect does Metaverse platforms have on a senior's physical and mental health? Topic 7.

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How can Metaverse systems be designed to better serve the needs of older adults? Topic 8. How can governments and organizations use Metaverse to promote healthy lifestyle among seniors? Topic 9. What role will older adults play in shaping the future of Metaverse? Topic 10. How can sales and marketing automation be used to target and reach older adult consumers? So let's go to Topic 1. What is Metaverse and how does it differ from social media and chat rooms? Well, the Metaverse is a virtual space that allows people to interact with each other in a 3D environment, similar to the real world. It's different from social media and chat rooms because it offers a more immersive and interactive experience. Users can create avatars, use gestures and expressions, and engage in activities like gaming or attending virtual classes. The Metaverse also allows for more people to join the conversation at any time, making it easy to connect with a diverse group of people. So it's becoming increasingly popular as a unique way for people to connect and express themselves.

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The Metaverse also offers a level of scalability and accessibility that is unmatched by traditional social media and chat room platforms. Well, with the use of virtual reality technology, users can experience the Metaverse from anywhere, regardless of their physical location. The Metaverse also offers a wide range of opportunities for businesses and organizations. It can be used for virtual events, product demonstrations, and even employee training. With the ability to create custom environments and avatars, businesses can create a unique and personalized experience for their customers and employees. So it's not just social media and chat rooms, it's a whole new level of digital interaction. It's a virtual world where you can create your own avatar and interact with others in real time. So imagine a place where you can attend virtual classes, hold meetings, business meetings, and even play games with other people, all in a 3D immersive environment. It's not just about sharing photos or text-based updates like on social media, it's about actually experiencing things together. And the best part? You can express yourself freely using gestures, facial expressions, and emotions, unlike in traditional chat rooms. The Metaverse is the future of digital communication, and it's worth keeping an eye on. Topic 2.

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So what activities and experiences can older adults have in the Metaverse? Well, with the event of virtual worlds, it's now possible to experience activities and experiences without ever leaving your living room. The Metaverse is filled with a wide range of possibilities for everyone, but particularly those who are older adults. Well here are some ideas for how you can explore the world without leaving your home. Socialize with family and friends. Well nothing beats being able to catch up with your loved ones from the comfort of your own home. You can chat, video call, or even share photos and videos in real time. Take online classes or learn new skills. It's a great way to stay sharp and mentally active by taking online classes or learning a new skill. There are a variety of options available, from language courses to program tutorials to art classes. Play games with others from around the world. Games are an excellent way to pass the time while also connecting with people from all over the world who share similar interests as you do. Shop for clothes, furniture, and other items without leaving your home. Shopping in the Metaverse is an easy way to get what you need without having to leave

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your house or wait in line at the store. And virtual stores offer discounts and deals that aren't available in physical stores. Travel to new and interesting places without ever leaving your chair. One of the beautiful things about virtual worlds is that you can travel anywhere. No passport or plane ticket required. Visit famous landmarks or explore uncharted territory. The possibilities are endless. You can also attend concerts, plays, and other live events without having to leave your living room. But don't miss out on any of the best performances around by attending live shows from your living room. Whether it's a Broadway show or a rock concert, there's something for everyone in the Metaverse. You can also meet new people and make new friends from all over the world. Expand your social circle beyond just those in the immediate vicinity by making friends all over the world through shared interests. You can also serve as a mentor or tutor to people who are just starting out in the Metaverse. You can help others navigate this brave new world by becoming their mentor or tutor. You can also participate in volunteer work that is important to you. Use your free time productively by participating in volunteer work that aligns with what matters to you the most.

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The Metaverse has opened up the entire realm of possibilities for older adults who want an adventure right at their fingertips. From socializing online with family and friends to taking online classes and learning new skills, there's something for everyone out there waiting for them in this brave new digital era. We are so grateful to have you join us today discussing the Metaverse and older adults. Topic 3. So what are the pros and cons of living in the Metaverse for older adults? Well, let's go through the pros. Well, the pros of living in Metaverse for older adults are numerous. For example, increased social interaction can help reduce feelings of isolation and loneliness while providing more opportunities to stay connected with friends and family. Participating in the variety of activities in the Metaverse can help stimulate personal growth and learning and give seniors a chance to explore new hobbies or interests. Also, meeting new people from all over the world can be exciting and offer an opportunity for cultural exchange. Living in the virtual environment could also mean reduced living expenses since seniors will not have to worry about housing costs or other necessities associated with traditional living arrangements. Providing medical care and support services within the Metaverse can be easier than navigating the physical world where transportation or other logistical issues may arise.

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So ultimately, living in the Metaverse could provide increased independence and control over one's life, allowing seniors to make decisions that best fit their needs without having to worry about external factors like distance or cost. Well, there is potential for seniors who live in the Metaverse to enjoy more freedom, better health outcomes, lower expenses, and greater satisfaction in their day-to-day lives than they would otherwise experience in reality. Well, here are some cons. Well, the Metaverse can be a double-edged sword for older adults as there are both advantages and disadvantages to this virtual world. The advantages include staying connected like I mentioned, meeting new people from all over the world. Now, there are some drawbacks that should not be overlooked when considering living in the Metaverse. Well, some drawbacks are loneliness. Many Metaverses are filled with younger gamers and people who are more interested in gaming and socializing than engaging in meaningful conversations or activities. These younger folks may not always understand or care about the older folks, what they have to say, leading the older folks' feelings of isolation and loneliness. Another component, social isolation and mental health. Well, living in the Metaverse can encourage social isolation from the real world, leading

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to mental health issues such as depression and anxiety. Older adults may find themselves spending less time interacting with real people outside of their home and instead preferring to spend their time inside the virtual world. Well, this can be particularly detrimental if they have no one else around to talk with or share experiences on a daily basis. Health risks. Well, spending too much time in the virtual world can have health risks such as eye strain, back and posture strain, and an increased risk of obesity due to lack of physical activity. Also, spending too much time alone without proper nutrition increases the risk of developing various illnesses or disorders such as dementia, Alzheimer's disease, which could further impede one's ability to interact with others effectively. Difficulty interacting with the environment. Well, older adults may have trouble using the Metaverse for a variety of reasons, one of which is difficulty interacting with the virtual environment. The virtual world of the Metaverse can be challenging for some seniors to navigate, particularly for those who have difficulty with fine motor skills or vision impairment. For example, seniors wear glasses may find it difficult to use the Metaverse as they cannot wear glasses in a virtual world. Conditions like presbyopia, which is a common age-related condition that causes difficulty in focusing on close objects, can make it difficult for seniors to interact with objects

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like avatars in the virtual environment. Vision impairment can make it difficult for older adults to interact with the virtual environment and other avatars. Vertical can make it challenging for seniors to navigate 3D space, which could lead to false and serious injuries. Well, older adults may feel anxious about using the computer or smartphone to interact with the virtual world due to lack of experience or comfort with technology. Difficulty communicating with others who do not speak the same language can make it challenging for seniors to fully participate in the Metaverse. Age-related conditions like macular degeneration can be exasperated by activities in the virtual world, which can cause discomfort or further vision loss. Conditions used by seniors can cause dizziness or vertigo, making the virtual reality headsets unsafe to use. Topic 4. So what safety measures should be taken when older adults use the Metaverse? Well, safety measures should be taken when older adults use the Metaverse as they are more likely to fall victim of cybercrime due to their lack of knowledge or understanding of cybersecurity. To protect them from potential threats, well, here are some key safety tips for seniors when accessing the Metaverse.

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Install advanced security software that can detect and remove malicious scripts, malware, and viruses. Well, make sure to update it regularly so that the software is equipped with the latest security technologies. Protect all online data transmissions using a secure protocol such as HTTPS so that any information sent over the internet is encrypted and protected from prying eyes. Create strong passwords for each account and never share them with anyone else. Passwords should consist of a combination of letters, numbers, and symbols in order to be difficult to guess or crack. It's recommended that a password are changed periodically in order to increase their level of security. Be aware of phishing scams that target older adults, which look like legitimate emails from banks or other organizations but can contain malicious links or attachments used by scammers to steal personal information and login credentials. Many instances of phishing scams involve requests for financial transactions, such as wire transfers, which should always be treated with caution before taking any action. Check for updates on all devices being used for access into the Metaverse. This includes computers, tablets, phones, and other connected devices since outdated versions may be vulnerable to security risks like exploitation by hackers or viruses from malicious websites or apps.

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Always log out after using an online account on computers located in public areas such as libraries, internet cafes, even if the computer password is protected. Remember to take regular breaks from spending extended periods of time on the Metaverse. Too much exposure can lead to eye strain and fatigue, which can put seniors at risk for health issues related to prolonged use of technology devices, which could lead to headaches, neck pain, or cause poor posture while sitting in front of a computer screen for extended periods of time. Topic 5. How will older adults socialize be affected by the introduction of the Metaverse? The introduction of the Metaverse is going to revolutionize the way older adults interact with the world around them. It's going to change the way how they live and it's going to change it in a big way. Well think about it. The Metaverse gives seniors access to virtual world where they can connect with others from all over the globe. They can join virtual classes, attend virtual events, and join online communities all from the comfort of their own home. This eliminates the need for transportation, eliminates the need to deal with unfamiliar places or people, and opens up a whole new world of opportunities for social interaction. But it's not just about convenience, it's also about the technology itself. With the Metaverse, seniors have access to tools that allow them to customize their interactions

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based on their own needs or preferences, larger text sizes for better readability, speech recognition capabilities for those with hearing impairments. The list goes on and on and let's not forget the sense of immediacy and presence that the digital conversations offer. Imagine being able to stay connected with family members who live far away and remain in close touch with friends even if they're not physically present. That's the kind of technology that we're talking about. The Metaverse is going to give older adults a newfound sense of autonomy and freedom compared to what is available in the physical world today. It's going to give them an immersive 3D environment where they can meet new people and explore new interests. It's going to provide them with a more enjoyable experience overall and that is something that's going to have a hugely positive impact on the social lives going forward. So this technology is the future and it's going to change the way we interact in the world. But we are grateful for those who have joined us to discuss the topic of Metaverse and older From conversations to health checkups, from social activities and educational courses, technology has the potential to transform our lives in many ways. It's an exciting opportunity to explore these possibilities with you and thank you so much for being here. Topic 6.

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So what effect does the Metaverse platform have on seniors' physical and mental health? Well, increased social interaction. The Metaverse provides a space for seniors to interact with others in a way that is stimulating and satisfying, decreasing the likelihood of social isolation, enhanced mental health. Well, through participating in the Metaverse activities, seniors are able to improve cognitive function and memory recall, as well as reducing the risk of developing dementia or Alzheimer's disease, greater feelings of self-worth and purpose. By taking on new roles and tasks in the Metaverse, seniors are able to feel a sense of accomplishment to contribute value to society. Increased independence. Through using virtual reality technology, many everyday tasks that were once difficult or impossible for seniors can now be completed independently. More communication skills. Due to the nature of online interactions, seniors often have to learn how to communicate more effectively in order to get their points across. Improved vision and hearing. Well, due to the increased use of 3D graphics and sounds within the Metaverse environments, many seniors experience improved vision and hearing acuity. Broader worldviews. Exposure to different cultures and lifestyles within the Metaverse can lead many seniors

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to develop a more global perspective on life. More informed decision making. Well, as participants in the Metaverse communities, elders are often privy to information that they would not normally have access to offline. Reduced stress level. Many seniors suffer from high levels of stress, which can lead to a variety of health problems. The Metaverse has been shown to help reduce stress levels, leading to improved mental and physical health. Increased social interaction. Well, one of the main benefits of the Metaverse is that it allows seniors to interact with others their own age, which can be beneficial for both mental and physical health. Topic 7. How can Metaverse systems be designed to better serve the needs of older adults? Well, first, design the Metaverse systems that are easy and intuitive to use with straightforward navigation and a variety of user-friendly features. Simple commands and clear instructions should be provided throughout the system in order to help older adults better interact with the environment. Second, incorporate multiple layers of security protection in the Metaverse system in order to ensure that older adults' personal information remains safe from malicious actors. This could include two-factor authentication, encryption for data and communications, and

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other measures designed to protect users' privacy and security online. Third, develop a robust set of tools that allow older adults to customize their avatars and worlds according to their individual tastes, needs, and interests. For example, users might be able to upload images or textures for their avatar skin or clothing, choose from a variety of hairstyles, select different eye shapes, design buildings or landscapes, choose different colors and schemes, or create unique animations or gestures for their avatars. Fourth, ensure the availability of assistance when needed, whether it's through automated tutorials, customer service representatives, or chat, phone, or knowledgeable personnel available during the virtual events or activities in order to provide support when required by the older adult users. Five, allow users to participate in various activities within the Metaverse system, such as gaming tournaments, meetups with other users around the world, similar to meetups, virtual shopping experiences, educational classes, forums, and seminars, travel opportunities, virtual sightseeing tours, all tailored for older adults' audience so that they can take advantage of them without feeling overwhelmed by unfamiliar technology trends or new gadgets. Six, provide social interaction capabilities within the Metaverse system, such as group chat with text messages and audio-video calls so that older adults can stay connected with family members or acquaintances, regardless of where they live in the world, while never leaving the comfort of their home.

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Seven, enable cross-platform compatibility so that older adults can access their avatars and environments across many different devices if they wish, such as smartphones, tablet computers, without needing any additional hardware installations, nor software downloads, updates whenever possible. Eight, utilize advanced artificial intelligence algorithms so that interactions between users feel more natural by recognizing voice commands and facial expressions, as well as allowing customized conversations based on user preferences rather than predetermined canned responses offered by bots that's found everywhere on the web today. Nine, make sure that the Metaverse system has strong safety measures in place to protect older users from cybercrime. Verify the identity of users before allowing them to access certain areas of Metaverse to prevent fraud and scamming. Provide anonymous reporting systems so that users can report suspicious activities without fear of retaliation. Ten, make sure that everything in the virtual world is updated and works well, including the images and sounds. Keep the servers that run the virtual world safe by fixing any problems quickly and very frequently. This will protect everyone's information from the bad people who want to cause harm. Well, we believe that this discussion is very important as we work to improve the quality

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of life for seniors through the use of virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed reality, artificial intelligence, robotics, blockchain, nanotechnology, and other emerging Metaverse technologies. It's a complex arena with numerous opportunities as well as numerous challenges. Topic 8. How can governments and organizations use Metaverse to promote healthy lifestyle among seniors? Well, I can see the potential for Metaverse to revolutionize the way governments and organizations to promote healthy lifestyle among seniors. By providing immersive opportunities for engagement, educational resources, and specialized care, Metaverse can empower older adults to take control of their health and well-being. Governments and organizations can use Metaverse to provide virtual exercise classes, educational seminars, and even virtual tours of retirement homes or assisted living communities. This allows seniors to explore their options and connect with others interested in positive aging, reducing feelings of isolation. Metaverse can also be used as a tool to educate seniors about healthy aging through interactive tutorials, ebooks, articles, videos on various topics such as nutrition, physical activity, stress management, and disease prevention. The virtual reality technology can be used to introduce safe yet challenging physical activities for seniors who are unable to do certain exercises due to health or mobility issues.

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Metaverse can also provide cognitive stimulation through games, puzzles, and learning activities to help keep older adults' minds sharp. While remote health monitoring through sensors embedded in wearable devices can be used to keep an eye on vital signs without the need for in-person appointments, virtual hospitals can provide access to specialized care from experts across the country for older adults living in remote areas or with limited mobility. The Metaverse can be used by senior centers to connect residents with loved ones living far away and maintain social connections while following social distance protocol. Governments can support local businesses by creating virtual shopping destinations within the Metaverse that offer discounts for seniors promoting economic opportunities for small businesses. Remote voting through Metaverse can make it easier for seniors who have difficulty getting out to vote. Overall, the Metaverse offers a range of opportunities for governments and organizations to support the health and well-being of older adults and help them stay active, engaged, and connected. Topic 9. What role will older adults play in shaping the future of the Metaverse? The future of the Metaverse is in the hands of older adults. They bring with them a wealth of experience and wisdom and it's time for them to step up and shape virtual world to meet the needs of their generation.

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They need to be vocal and advocate for better representation and inclusion of seniors in the virtual world and actively engage with each other. These seniors also have a unique perspective that businesses can tap into their market products and services while promoting positive aging in the virtual world. So it's not just about representation, it's also about education. Older adults can collaborate with educators to develop curriculum around using virtual worlds for learning and assist in designing these platforms to be more senior-friendly. By connecting with other older adults who share an interest in the virtual world, they can foster relationships and form senior-only groups or activities within the platform. And let's not forget about research. Older adults can support studies on aging and technology and investigate how virtual reality can be used as a therapeutic tool for treating symptoms such as depression or anxiety among elderly population. So the bottom line is older adults have a vital role in shaping the future of the Metaverse and it's time for them to step up and make it happen. Topic 10. So how can sales and marketing automation be used to target and reach older adult consumers? Well automation can be used to track customer behavior and preferences and then use that data to create more effective marketing campaigns that target older adults' specific interests and needs.

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So companies can also use automation to send out reminders and follow-up messages to the senior consumers which can increase the chances of them making a purchase. Automation can be used to create targeted ads that reach older consumers on social media platforms where they can spend a significant amount of time. So businesses can use automation to create targeted landing pages that are specifically designed to appeal to older adults with larger text or simple navigation. Automation can be used to reach out to senior consumers through various communication channels like email, SMS, social media, allowing them to choose the one that they prefer. So companies can also use automation to create chatbots that are specifically designed to help older adults navigate the Metaverse and answer any questions they might have. Automation can be used to create personalized recommendations for senior consumers based on their browsing and purchase history. Well as a business owner, it's important to stay ahead of the game and understand how to effectively target and reach senior consumers. Well, sales and marketing automation is the key. With automation tools, you can segment your customer base by age and get a better understanding of their needs of the senior consumers. And by sending automated personalized emails tailored specifically for senior consumers, you'll increase engagement, build trust, and encourage loyalty. But that's not all.

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Automation also allows you to offer special incentives to senior consumers to attract them and encourage them to purchase from your company. And you can use the data collected through automation to create targeted campaigns that resonate with these senior consumers. And by understanding how seniors interact with this technology and what products that they prefer, you'll be able to make more informed decisions and better market to them. Plus, automation helps you stay on top of customer feedback and make necessary adjustments. It streamlines communication and allows you to respond quickly to customer requests and questions. So overall, sales and marketing automation is a game changer for reaching and understanding senior consumers. So don't miss out on this opportunity to grow your business and stay ahead of the competition. So the metaverse is a game changer for seniors. It's a virtual space that eliminates physical barriers, making it easier for older adults to connect and engage with each other. This technology is a lifesaver for seniors who are looking for ways to stay active and socially connected without compromising their safety or comfort. As the world becomes increasingly digital, the metaverse is going to become even more important.

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So it's going to be a key tool in helping seniors stay connected, engaged, active in a way that's never been possible before. So if you're a business looking to target senior consumers, pay attention to the metaverse. I think that's where they're going to be. And if you want to reach out to them, you've got to make sure that you're in that space too. In order for businesses to truly take advantage of the metaverse and reach senior consumers, they need to have the right tools in place. So that's where sales and marketing automation comes in. It allows companies to segment their customer base according to age and send personalized messages that are tailored specifically for senior consumers. It also enables businesses to give special incentives to senior consumers, create targeted campaigns that resonate with the senior demographic, and also monitor customer feedback to make adjustments accordingly. So in short, sales and marketing automation is a must for businesses looking to reach senior consumers in the metaverse. It's important to understand their needs and providing them with the personalized experiences that they create. So with these tools in place, businesses can build trust and encourage loyalty among senior consumers, helping them to ensure that the metaverse is a place where everyone can thrive.

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Thank you so much for joining me today. And if you have any questions, please reach out.

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Hi, I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast. Welcome. We're delighted that you could join us today. I know there are people all over the world who share my interests to learn and to share ideas how to best serve the aging population. So good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to you. Well, this is a three-part event series on older adults and technology. The first one was "Technology and Older Adults, 10 Things You Need to Know." The link for this event is in the comments, so please feel free to check it out. So today's topic is "Technology and Health Management in Older Adults." As we live longer and healthier lives, aging no longer means what it used to. Older adults are active, engaged members of society who are using technology to stay connected with family and friends, manage their finances, stay healthy, and pursue their hobbies and interests. Technology has revolutionized health care, making it possible to monitor our health in ways that were unimaginable years ago. Fitness trackers, digital pill boxes, and mobile apps allow us to track our physical activities, sleep patterns, medications, and diet. This data can be used to identify trends and make lifestyle changes that can improve our health and well-being.

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For seniors living with chronic conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, or COPD, technology can be a vital tool for managing their health. Digital health tools can help them track their symptoms and medication use, schedule doctor appointments and medication refills, and connect them with their care team. However, it can also present challenges such as those related to privacy and security. Ultimately, the decision of when and how to use technology in the care of seniors should be made by the seniors themselves in consultation with their families and caregivers. Technology has the potential to greatly improve the lives of seniors. It's important that we continue to explore ways to incorporate it into our caregiving practices in a way that is respectful of the needs and preferences of the patient. So today's topic is "Technology and Health Management in Older Adults." And here are 10 things that you need to know. First, what types of technologies are used in health management for older adults? Second, what are the benefits of using technology to manage health of older adults? Third, what challenges do older adults face in using digital health tools? Fourth, how do technologies help seniors manage chronic conditions? Five, what are the best practices for incorporating technology into senior care? Six, who decides when and how to use technology in senior care? Seven, how do family and caregivers feel about using technology in care of their loved ones? Eight, how do seniors feel about health tech?

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Nine, what challenges does aging pose for the development of digital health solutions? Ten, how can tech industry and the aging community collaborate to innovate accessible technology? Eleven, how will advances in technology impact the way we monitor and manage health in older adults? And twelve, how sales and marketing automation can benefit tech companies serving seniors? So the first topic is what types of technologies are used in health management for older adults? Well, there are a lot of technologies out there that can help with health management for seniors. Some of them are pretty simple, like pedometers to track steps taken or apps to remind you to take your medication. Others are more complex, like electronic medical records that keep track of your health history or wearable devices that monitor your vital signs. Well, here are 10 technologies that are commonly used in health management for seniors. Pedometers or activity trackers. These can be worn on your wrist or clipped to your clothing, and they track how many steps that you take throughout the day. They can also sometimes track other activities like swimming or cycling. Medication reminder apps. There are a lot of these on the market, and they can range from very simple just setting an alarm to more complex, including features like refill reminders and dosage information. Electronic medical records. These are becoming more and more common, and they allow your doctors to have access to your complete health history in one place. Watchful waiting technologies. These technologies monitor vital signs like heart rate, blood pressure, and oxygen level.

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They can be worn as watches or as patches on the skin and often have alarms that go off if something seems abnormal. GPS tracking devices. These can be helpful if you have Alzheimer's or other condition that makes it easy to get lost. The devices can be worn as bracelets or pendants, and they use GPS to track your location so that you can be found if you wander off. Fall detection devices. These technologies use sensors to detect when a person has fallen, and they can either send an alert to a caregiver or automatically call for help. Video conferencing. This is a great way to stay in touch with loved ones who live far away, and it's also becoming more common for doctor appointments and other types of health care visits. Virtual reality. Some companies are using virtual reality to help people with dementia reconnect with memories from the past, and it's also being used in some physical therapy programs. 3D printing. This technology is being used in a variety of ways in health care, from creating customized prosthetics to printing human tissue for research purposes. Technologies are used in health management for seniors to improve their quality of life. These technologies can monitor health parameters, help caregivers, and manage medication. Common technologies for older adults health management include, first, wearable technologies such as fitness trackers. These can be used to monitor heart rate, steps taken, and other health metrics. Second, telehealth technologies. These enable remote monitoring of patients by doctors and nurses and can be used to provide care and support to patients in their own home. Third, technology assisted living. This includes technologies that can help with day to day tasks such as cooking, cleaning, and laundry.

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Fourth, mobility technologies. These can help seniors to get around more easily, whether that's by providing information on route and transport options or by helping with things like opening doors and carrying groceries. Fifth, communication technologies. These enable seniors to stay in touch with family and friends, whether that's through video calling, social media, or simply sending emails or text messages. Sixth, memory aids. These can be digital or physical technologies that help remind people of things like appointments, medication schedules, and important phone numbers. Ninth, brain training technologies. There are a number of apps and games available to, well, claim to help improve cognitive function in seniors. Ten, connected home technologies. These are devices and systems that work together to make it easier to live independently at home. For example, by automatically turning lights off when nobody is home or by sending alerts if an appliance has been left on for too long. While some of these technologies are still in the early stages of development and testing, others are widely available and show promise for improving the health and well-being of seniors. Second topic is, what are the benefits of using technology to manage the health of older adults? Well, as our population ages, it's becoming increasingly important to find ways to help seniors stay healthy and independent for as long as possible. Technology can play a big role in this, providing tools to help with everything from managing medications to staying connected with loved ones. Well, here are 10 benefits of using technology to manage the health of older adults. First, improved medication compliance. Medication management apps can remind patients to take their pills and share information with caregivers and doctors. This ensures patients take their medication as prescribed, improving health and well-being. Second, avoidance of hospital readmissions.

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Telehealth services allow patients to receive care from home, which can help prevent costly and disruptive hospital readmissions. Third, early detection of health problems. Tools like fitness trackers and blood pressure monitors can help identify early signs of health problems so that intervention can be taken before the problem becomes more serious. Fourth, improved communication with health care providers. Technology can provide patients with easy access to their health care providers, whether it's through online portals, email, or text messaging. This improved communication can lead to better overall care. Fifth, greater independence and autonomy. Technologies like personal emergency response systems and medication management systems can give seniors the ability to live independently for longer periods of time. Sixth, better management of chronic conditions. Chronic disease management apps can help patients track their symptoms and progress and share information with their physicians. This can lead to better overall management of chronic conditions such as diabetes, heart disease, and respiratory illness. Seven, enhanced social connectedness. Social media platforms and video chat software provide opportunities for seniors to stay connected with family and friends, even if they can't meet in person regularly. This can help reduce feelings of isolation and loneliness, which are associated with poor health outcomes. Eight, improved mental health. Along with increased social connectedness, technology can also provide opportunities for mental stimulation and cognitive engagement. This can help improve mental health in seniors by reducing depression and anxiety symptoms. Nine, increased physical activity levels. Physical activity is important for maintaining good health as we age, but it can be difficult to stay motivated. Activity tracking apps and wearable devices provide encouragement and feedback that can help people stay on track with their physical activity goals.

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There are many different types of technology available to choose from, so it's important to do some research and find the best option for each individual. The third topic is, what challenges do older adults face in using digital health tools? As more and more of us turn to digital health tools to track our progress, monitor our health, and stay up to date with the latest health care news, it's important to consider how seniors can also benefit from these tools. While digital health tools are increasingly accessible for everyone, there are some unique challenges that seniors face when using them. So let's take a look at some of these challenges. First, accessibility. Many digital health tools require an internet connection or a device like a smartphone or tablet to assess them. Not all seniors have access to these technologies or necessary skills to use them effectively. Second, affordability. Similar to accessibility, affordability can be a challenge for many seniors who may not have the resources available to purchase the necessary equipment and subscription fees associated with certain digital health tools. Third, security. Seniors may not be aware of the potential security risks associated with using the digital health tools and could unknowingly put their personal information at risk if they don't take proper precautions. Fourth, privacy. In order for many digital health tools to work properly, users must provide personal information such as medical histories and insurance details in order for them to function properly. Many seniors may not be comfortable sharing this kind of sensitive information online due to privacy concerns. Fifth, complexity. Digital health tools can be complicated and confusing for those who aren't tech savvy or familiar with how to how they work. So this could cause confusion and frustration, which could deter older users from utilizing the available options effectively. Sixth, overload of information.

00:13:24
So much information online can be overwhelming for senior consumers who aren't used to navigating large amount of data quickly or parsing what's relevant versus what's not as they research for medical topics online. Seven, lack of social interaction. Digital health solutions are often impersonal, making it difficult for senior consumers who need more social interaction to understand how the tool works for them. Eight, difficulty adapting. Many seniors have trouble adapting due to physical or mental decline, making learning complex new systems more difficult. Nine, technical support. It's hard for seniors living alone without family to get help with digital health solutions because it's hard to find someone knowledgeable or willing to help. Ten, lack of personalization. Many digital health solutions are designed on a mass scale. So individuals may not be considered when creating features. Senior consumers may have trouble using a tool that isn't tailored to his or her needs. Digital health tools can benefit seniors if used correctly, but they also pose some challenges. It's important to ensure that everyone has access, understands security risks, is comfortable with privacy issues, knows how they work, isn't overwhelmed by too much information, has support if needed, can adapt quickly enough, and receives personalized features based on their needs when using these powerful resources. The fourth topic is how do technologies help seniors manage chronic conditions? Well, in recent years, there have been significant advances in technology that have helped people of all ages to better manage their chronic conditions. For seniors who are often dealing with multiple chronic conditions, these technologies can be lifesavers. Well, here are 10 explanations for how effective technologies are in assisting seniors in managing chronic conditions. First, they help to track and manage medications. Seniors often take multiple medications, which can be difficult to keep track of.

00:15:40
So pill boxes and medication reminder apps can help ensure medications are taken on time and in correct dosage. Second, they provide easy access to medical records. Well, in the past, assessing medical records was a very time consuming and complicated process. With electronic health records, patients can easily view their own medical history and share it with their care team. Third, they facilitate remote appointments. Technology allows patients to consult with their doctors from home. This is especially helpful for seniors who may have trouble getting to a doctor's office. Four, they help with communication. Technologies like video conferencing and instant messaging improve communication between patients and the care teams. This ensures everyone understands the treatment plans and goals. Five, they promote healthy behaviors. Many wearable technologies track fitness and activity levels, as well as heart rate and blood pressure. These devices can encourage exercise and healthy eating. Six, they provide social support. Social media and online support groups can help isolated or lonely seniors. These connections reduce isolation and boost mental health. Seven, they offer educational resources. The internet has many resources to help seniors understand their chronic conditions. Patient education materials are available online 24-7, empowering patients to take an active role in their health care. Eight, they increase access to care.

00:17:20
In rural or low public transportation areas, getting to the doctor can be very difficult. Telehealth services allow patients to consult with their doctors via video conference or phone. Nine, they monitor vital signs. There are many devices that monitor vital signs from home. This information can help identify potential problems early and seek prompt medical attention. Ten, they provide a peace of mind. Technology can give patients and their caregivers peace of mind. Patients can use technology to feel more connected to their care team when they're not present. So the fifth topic is, what are some best practices for incorporating technology into the care of older adults? As our aging population continues to grow, it is becoming increasingly important to find ways to incorporate technology in their care. There are many potential benefits to using technology to assist seniors, including improved communication, increased independence, and enhanced safety. However, it's important to use technology in a way that respects the individual's privacy and dignity. With that in mind, here are 10 practices for incorporating technology into the care of seniors. First, get consent. Before introducing any new technology, keep it simple. Use user-friendly devices and software. Respect privacy. Avoid sharing personal information without permission. Be aware of scams. Educate seniors about how to stay safe online.

00:18:57
Promote independence. Help seniors learn how to use new technologies. Enhance safety. Use technology to monitor health and well-being. Encourage socialization. Use technology to connect with friends and family. Promote physical activities. Use technology to encourage healthy habits. Be patient. Take the time to answer questions and provide support. Evaluate regularly. Well, check in with seniors to see how they are using new technologies and if they need help troubleshooting any issues. By following these best practices, it will help ensure that technology is used in a way that benefits seniors while respecting their rights and needs. Topic 6. Who determines when and how technology should be used in the care of older adults? Well, the fact is, there is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question. The decision about when and how to use technology in the care of seniors is made by a team of experts. This team includes doctors, nurses, therapists, and social workers. The decision is based on the needs of the individual and made with the input of the family and caregivers. The goal is to improve their quality of life.

00:20:17
It is made on a case-by-case basis. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. The use of technology in the care of seniors is a very complex and often controversial issue. There is no central policy governing the use of technology in the care of seniors. Decisions are typically made at the state or local level. There is also no consensus among experts about when and how to use technology in the care of seniors. Technology can be beneficial for some seniors. It can also be harmful for others. Technology can be used to help seniors to stay independent, but it also can be used to control them. Who makes decisions about the use of technology in the care of seniors often depends on who pays for the technology. Technology is often used more for surveillance than for caregiving in institutional settings. As the population of seniors continues to grow, this is an issue that will likely receive increasing attention from policymakers, providers, and families alike. Well, here are some considerations. The decision-maker should ensure that any proposed technological solution is appropriate for the patient's age, physical ability, cognitive abilities, and overall health status. The decision-maker should consider whether the risk of using technology outweighs its potential benefits for the patient being treated.

00:21:51
If a particular piece of technology would be beneficial for a patient, the decision-maker should consider its cost-effectiveness and practicality, in other words, ease of use for both health care providers and patients. Any technological solution for caring for seniors must ensure patient confidentiality and safety. It's important for all parties involved, including family members, health care professionals, to work together collaboratively when deciding on an appropriate technological solution for an older adult patient's care needs to maximize its effectiveness and minimize any potential risk. All decisions regarding the use of technology in caring for seniors should consider ethical consideration, such as respect for autonomy and beneficence, doing what is best for patients. Families can influence decisions about using technology to care for an older adult, especially if that person lacks decision-making capacity or needs assistance with daily living. Technology should never replace human interaction between health care professionals and patients. It should be used to improve communication and outcomes. Senior living communities may use GPS tracking systems or facial recognition software to improve security or support services. All stakeholders, including family, caregivers, and residents, should weigh in. Nursing homes must comply with applicable laws and regulations before implementing new technologies, including obtaining staff consent if required HIPAA privacy rule. There are many factors involved in deciding whether or not to use technology in the care of seniors.

00:23:38
It's important that all stakeholders have input into these decisions so that they can be tailored to individual needs while also taking compliance requirement into account such as HIPAA privacy rule. Topic 7. How do family members and caregivers feel about using technology in the care of their loved one? Technology has the potential to greatly improve the experience of caregiving for both family members and caregivers. But what do those who use it really think? Well, to get a better picture of how technology is being adapted in caregiving, let's take a look at 10 facts about how family members and caregivers feel about using technology in the care of their loved ones. According to the survey conducted by Phillips Home Care Solution, 97% surveyed family members said they would recommend technology-assisted caregiving to other families. 88% of surveyed family members believe that using technology has allowed them to spend more quality time with their loved one. 83% of surveyed family members consider themselves early adapters when it comes to technologies that support caregiving. A study conducted by Caring Village found that 84% of respondents had used technology to monitor their loved one's condition or activities while they were away from home.

00:25:04
79% of surveyed caregivers consider technology an important part of providing quality care for their loved ones. 72% of surveyed caregivers say they are more likely to use technologies if they can be integrated with existing products and services already in place for their loved one's care needs. 68% respondents in a study by the Caring Village said that using technology made them feel more secure about the safety and well-being of their loved one when they weren't present. 65% of surveyed caregivers believe that using technology enhances communication between them and their loved one. 61% of surveyed family members believe that using technology has improved the overall quality of life for their loved one. 55% surveyed caregivers believe that using technology allowed them to provide better, more comprehensive care for their loved one. Technology has become an important tool in providing quality care for seniors or disabled. The benefits of adapting technological solutions are clear, from enhancing caregiver-patient communication to allowing families more quality time together. Those who have done so overwhelmingly express positive sentiment about its use in providing better care overall.

00:26:29
So it's encouraging to see how far we have come in adapting technological solutions into our daily lives. So let's not forget the impact all this can have on those in need. Topic 8. How do seniors feel about using technology to manage their health? Seniors are more than ever willing to adapt technology in their lives to help manage their health. From virtual doctor appointments to using wearables, seniors are becoming tech savvy when it comes to managing their health. Well, here are 10 facts about seniors, how they feel about using technology to manage their health. First, the AARP found that 72% of seniors believe technology can improve their health and well-being. 95% of seniors age 65 plus have access to a computer or smartphone and use it for emailing, browsing the internet, and playing games. 60% of seniors surveyed by the National Council of Aging said they would use telehealth if it was available. The Journal of American Medical Association article found that seniors who use telemedicine were more satisfied with their care and had better communication with their healthcare provider. 69% of seniors said they would use a smartwatch or fitness tracker

00:27:50
if it was recommended by a healthcare provider. The Stanford University found that remote monitoring via smartwatches improved outcomes for seniors with chronic conditions like hypertension, diabetes, congestive heart failure. According to the National Institute of Aging, 75% of seniors prefer using online methods to communicate with healthcare providers about prescription refills and test results. A study in the gerontology and geriatric education found that seniors 65 plus who use wearables had better medication adherence rates. The same study found that 89% of seniors, 65 plus, felt more empowered when tracking their own health data via wearables than traditional methods such as paper charts or memory aids. Research now found that 70% of seniors think online healthcare advice is important because it helps them manage their own health. So seniors are increasingly using technology to manage their health due to convenience, accuracy, and cost savings that it offers. Most seniors are willing to try new technologies if they believe it will make managing their daily life and health decisions easier. This highlights the need for proactive outreach from healthcare providers

00:29:13
when offering educational resources on telehealth visits, online patient portals, and other digital services available within the provider's practice area. Topic 9. So what challenges does aging present for the development of digital health solutions? As our population ages, the need to develop digital health solutions becomes ever more important. These solutions can provide seniors with a greater sense of security and better access to medical care. However, there are certain challenges that must be taken into account when developing these solutions. Well, let's take a look at 10 facts about these challenges. Accessibility and usability. Seniors may have difficulty using technology due to physical limitations or lack of familiarity with certain devices. So it's important that any digital health solution be designed with accessibility and usability in mind so that it can be used by seniors as easily as possible. Memory issues. Memory loss makes it difficult for seniors to remember instructions or use a device correctly.

00:30:27
Memory loss can make it hard for seniors to understand why they should use a device or service, reducing usage and adaption. Physical limitation. Many seniors with physical limitations can't use tablets or smartphones. To be effective for this population, digital health solutions must be designed with these limitations in mind so that all users can access them and use them properly. Privacy concerns. Seniors are often more privacy conscious than younger users and may not want to share personal information online or on a mobile device. Any digital health solution must take this into account and provide adequate security and data safeguards. Cognitive decline. Cognitive decline makes it hard for seniors to understand how a device works or why they should use it. This can cause user frustration and lower adaption rates if not addressed during the solution development. Lack of education. Some seniors lack basic computer literacy, which makes using technology difficult,

00:31:37
especially when trying something new, like digital health solutions designed for their age group. So often, these users don't have access to educational resources that could help them become more comfortable technology outside of the healthcare setting. Poor understanding of benefits. Some seniors may not understand the benefits of digital health solutions, such as improved healthcare outcomes and lower cost. This demographic must understand and accept the benefits for them in order to be accepted. Lack of resources for training and support. Even after training on how to use digital health solutions, seniors may need additional support once they start using them. People learn differently and at different rates, so they may need online tutorials, user forms, and so forth. Cost barriers. Cost barriers prevent many seniors on fixed incomes from using tablets or smartphones to access digital health services tailored to their age group. Purchasing data plans for these devices may be cost prohibitive,

00:32:45
unless healthcare providers subsidize them. Limited interoperability. With many different types of healthcare providers offering different services, interoperability allows data sharing in communication that might otherwise be difficult due to differences in systems used by each provider. Healthcare systems are fragmented, making it difficult for users to access certain services. They may not know where to go or what type of service available in their area without first speaking to their doctor or other healthcare providers. Cultural acceptance. Well, cultural acceptance is key when introducing new technologies to any population. As some cultures may view certain technologies as foreign or uncomfortable, which could hinder adoption rates among certain groups, especially senior communities. Creating digital health solutions

00:33:43
that meet the needs of age and population requires careful consideration of multiple factors so that all users feel comfortable using them. Proper planning during solution design process will ensure successful implementation and improve quality now and in the future. Topic 10. What opportunities exist for collaboration between the tech industry and the aging community in terms of innovation around accessible technology? As the population of seniors continues to grow, so too does the need for accessible technology innovation. Technology has great potential to improve the quality of life for seniors by providing access to communication, transportation, health information, and much more. As the baby boomer population ages, demand for product and services designed for them will rise. So tech companies can develop innovative solutions to meet this need.

00:34:40
Companies can gain a competitive advantage by developing accessible technologies that are usable for seniors and people of all abilities. Involving seniors in product development ensures that products are accessible to all users regardless of age or ability, which are important components of inclusive technologies. Companies can tap into a growing market and gain competitive advantage by developing accessible technologies that comply with guidelines from the World Wide Web Consortium, such as Section 508 of the ADA. Inaccessible technology is a problem for disabled and many product and services lack features that make them usable by people with disabilities, leaving many unable to fully participate in their daily lives. Tech companies must create more inclusive products with built-in accessibility features, including designing products with all disabilities in mind, not just blind or visual impaired people.

00:35:44
By involving the aging community in the development process, tech companies can better understand how their products should be designed to accommodate users who may be elderly or disabled. Accessible technology innovation can lead to increased independence for individuals living with disabilities and seniors alike, as it enables them to control the pace of their daily lives without relying on others for assistance or support. Through collaboration between tech companies and the aging community on innovative projects, we can create a future where everyone has access to useful technological advances. And we must keep working to build a fair society where everyone has equal opportunity, regardless of ability or demographics, so no one is left behind. We made a lot of progress, but there's still more to do. Topic 11. How will advances in technology impact the way we monitor and manage health in older adults in the future?

00:36:45
Here are some facts about tech industry and the aging community collaboration on accessible tech solutions. One of the sources is from the Medical Futurist, Dr. Bertalan Mesko. If you haven't done so, sign up to his newsletter. So there is no question that technological advances are transforming how we live, work, and play. And as our population ages, these advances will also change how we monitor and manage seniors' health. Well, here are 10 ways technological advances will impact the field of aging and health in years to come. By 2025, it's estimated that nearly 80% of Americans over the age of 65 will be online. This connectivity will enable seniors to stay connected with their loved ones, access important health information and services, and remain engaged in their communities. With more seniors online,

00:37:41
there will be more data available to help us understand trends in aging and health. Virtual reality technology is becoming more realistic and affordable in the near future. Virtual reality could be used to train healthcare professionals in a wide range of settings from caring for patients with dementia to managing chronic pain. Thanks to the advances in telecommunication, telehealth services, which will include everything from video visits to remote monitoring, are becoming more accessible and affordable for both patients and providers. So as a result, we can expect to see a growing number of seniors receiving care via telehealth in the years ahead. Nanotechnology will transform drug delivery, making it easier for seniors to take medication. Sensors will help us monitor health at home,

00:38:34
allowing us to catch problems early. Artificial intelligence will help healthcare professionals with tasks such as analyzing medical images and making diagnosis. Robots may provide care for seniors living in senior living communities performing tasks such as providing companionship and reminding them to take medication. Fingerprints are uniquely individualized, making them an ideal tool for authentication. In recent years, fingerprint scanners have become smaller, cheaper, and more accurate. So in the future, fingerprints may be used not only to unlock phone, but also to confirm identity when accessing medical records or other sensitive information. The Internet of Things may help us better manage chronic conditions like diabetes or heart disease. The Internet of Things refers to a growing network of devices that are connected to the Internet,

00:39:30
including everything from fitness trackers to smart thermostats. As the population ages, there is an increasing demand for products and services that cater to seniors. This presents a huge opportunity for tech companies that are able to meet this need. However, selling to seniors can be a challenge because they have different needs and concerns. They may be more concerned about their health, their finances, their families, or their social networks. There are a few ways that tech companies can make the most out of this market. By understanding their needs and concerns and by offering products and services that address them. Well, the 12th topic is how sales and marketing automation can benefit tech companies serving seniors? Sales and marketing automation can help you streamline your operations and reach your target audience. When planning a sales and marketing strategy for seniors, it's important to remember that they are not all the same.

00:40:33
So tailor your message to those that are likely to be interested in what you're offering. So tech companies that promote healthy living or offer social networking or video chat services can be very successful and appealing to seniors. And all-in-one sales and marketing automation can help you manage your contacts, create targeted marketing campaigns, and track your progress all in one platform so that you don't have to pay for multiple subscriptions. Sales and marketing automation is a powerful tool that can help businesses to increase sales and revenues. Automating sales and marketing processes can save time and resources while also increasing efficiency and productivity. It can also help businesses to better target and engage with potential customers. By providing detailed data and insights into customer behavior, businesses can create more personalized

00:41:26
and effective marketing campaigns. So at its core, sales and marketing automation is designed to improve efficiency by automating repetitive tasks. Businesses can improve their sales and marketing process. So in today's competitive marketplace, any advantage that businesses can get is worth investigating. So if you're looking for ways to improve your sales and marketing process, sales and marketing automation could be the answer. Thank you so much for your attendance to this event. The aging demographic presents a unique challenge and opportunity for businesses. As the baby boomer generation ages, businesses have the golden opportunity to market their products and services to this growing demographic. The key is to focus on the needs of the aging demographic and to avoid stereotypes.

00:42:17
With careful planning and execution, businesses can reach this important demographic and tap into a growing market. So please reach out to us so that we can help you better understand how to reach this important demographic. Thank you again for your attendance and your interest.

Hanh: 00:00:00
Hello. I'm Hanh Brown. Thank you so much for everyone that joined us. So get ready for an episode of Boomer Living Broadcast that's sure to blow your mind. Today we will go do a deep dive into the world of neurodegenerative diseases and discussing the groundbreaking technique of deep brain stimulation. And who better talk to than Benjamin Stecher, a patient advocate, research advocate, and Tomorrow Edition founder. Well, Benjamin's journey is nothing short of inspirational. Hailing from Nairobi, Kenya, and raised in Canada, he has a unique background in history and philosophy. But his life took an unexpected turn when he was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at the age of just 29. So rather than let this setback defeat him, Benjamin returned to Canada to learn how to manage his illness. Well, along the way, he became fascinated by the world of biomedical science and started traveling the globe to learn from the field's top minds. So now, Benjamin is a speaker at academic centers and biotech companies. He also serves as a patient advisor to a range of organizations, including the Toronto Western Hospital Movement Disorder Clinic and the innovative brain tech company Rune Labs. So in this episode, he will share his thoughts on the future of health care and biomedical science, as well as discussing his work in patient advocacy and research advocacy. Plus, he also co-authored the book Brain Fables, so you know he's got a lot of wisdom to share. So tune in and join us as we explore the incredible journey of Benjamin Stecher and learn more about the cutting edge world of deep brain stimulation.

Hanh: 00:01:57
So Benjamin, welcome to the show.

Benjamin: 00:02:00
Hi, Hanh. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to talk to you and speak to everyone who might be listening as well.

Hanh: 00:02:06
Awesome. Okay. So can you describe your experience of being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at just 29 years old? And how did it change the trajectory of your life and career?

Benjamin: 00:02:20
Sure. So at the time I was living and working in China. I was an education consultant in Shanghai. I was working for a big Chinese company when I got the news. However, at the time, it didn't seem that bad because my symptoms were rather mild. I thought, hmm, if this is Parkinson's, then I guess it's not that bad. But the more I learned, the more I realized that and the more time in the past, the more I realized that I was in a lot of trouble. And so eventually I made the decision to come back home to explore this space full time. I've been ever since I've been kind of a nuisance to some people in the field in that I've been traveling the world, knocking on doors and asking as many prodding questions as I promised possibly could, some of the top minds in the field. And I've got myself to a point now where it's easier for me to get back into some of those doors. But it's been a difficult journey because I thought at the beginning that maybe I should go back to school and get an M.D. or Ph.D. I thought maybe I could become a doctor of some kind and advocacy or do something of that sort. But I soon realized that there's no school of advocacy that I could go to. There's no place that I could attend or get a degree in what I needed to know. And so I decided to just kind of go out into the world and learn for myself whatever it is that I thought was best for me. And that has been the calling card that I've kind of used to continue on in this journey.

Hanh: 00:03:49
Well, thank you. Thank you so much for your journey and your wealth of knowledge through your experience and sharing with us today. So let's talk about what's it like letting a machine learning algorithm run part of your brain. So as the field of neuroscience and artificial intelligence continue to overlap, researchers are exploring the use of machine learning algorithms to simulate parts of the brain. So can you describe the specific machine learning algorithm that you use to simulate a part of your brain and how did you train it?

Benjamin: 00:04:27
Sure. So I had something called a deep brain stimulator. I had that surgically implanted just under two years ago now. And actually on Friday of this week, I'm going to get my battery replaced for the first time. We can talk about that later though if you want. But it's been a very wild experience for me and in particular because one aspect of that is something called the ADAPT PD trial, which I'm the first participant in. I was the first patient enrolled in this trial and I was also the first patient to actually finish the trial as well. So my trial in that period is finished, although I'm still in the extended phase of this same trial. But essentially what it is is it's taking. So at the end of the electrodes that are placed deep inside my brain, there are sensors that allow it to read from my brain as well. So it takes those readings and it's recording something called the beta wave signals that it's getting. And those beta waves then range from 13 to 31 Hertz. And what those essentially do is they correlate with my symptoms severity. So the higher my beta waves are, tends to be the worse my symptoms are. And so at those times, I tend to need more stimulation coming from my deep brain stimulator. In the past, these kinds of devices were just something called continuous deep brain stimulators. They were kind of dumb machines that just like pulsated at a given frequency for the entirety of the day. But this new age that we're living in now has allowed for these new adaptive deep brain stimulators that do as the label says, kind of. So they take in the beta wave signaling and they modulate the amount of the amplitude of the electrical signal that I get delivered into my brain from this device. Based on that, based on the beta wave signals that it's receiving. It's a pretty wild thing to go through and it's led to a lot of weird and kind of unique side effects in me as well.

Benjamin: 00:06:26
However, it's also what's allowed me to live again. So prior to the pandemic or prior to getting this simulator inserted inside of me, I was living back in my parents basement. One, because of the pandemic, but two, just because my symptoms are so severe that I had no choice but to kind of live back in my parents house. Because I needed somebody basically to take care of me and help me with some small things in life. But since we turned on this adaptive deep brain simulator, I've been able to do the things I love again. Show things like traveling and speaking and just touring the world once again. So it's really giving me back my independence and I'm very grateful to the whole team behind me as well. Toronto Western Hospital and at the movement sort of clinic here in Toronto, because it's really been the thing that's allowed me to live again.

Hanh: 00:07:16
Wow. Well, thank you. So you're saying that using AI to control a part of the brain could have implications for the concept of free will and the boundaries between human consciousness and machine intelligence. So how did you experience of having a machine learning algorithm control part of your brain? Did that affect your perception of agency or autonomy?

Benjamin: 00:07:39
Yeah, it definitely did. And it was a bit shocking for me because I was a philosophy major in university. I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what I was and what the human experience is like. But I've realized through everything that I've gone through lately that I think we're actually simpler than I had originally anticipated us to be. You know, I thought we were very complex. I thought the brain was a very complex organ and it still is in comparison to the rest of the organs in our body. But really, it's a chemical factory that produces electricity. That's the simplest way to actually describe what it's doing. It's just a giant storm of electricity. And if there's something going wrong inside of a human being, it tends to originate somewhere in their brain. Although, you know, there's other organs as well that are also necessary. But there's a huge host of mental health problems that obviously the society is experiencing that we are all kind of trying to figure out a way to grapple with. However, I think that now, and this is something that's kind of been revelatory for me, is that basically for any of these problems that we encounter in our daily lives, whatever mental health problems it might be or neurodegenerative diseases that someone might have, it's really the loss of that electrical signaling that's driving those diseases forward. And if we can just find the right spots in which we can modulate something in the brain where we can put in one of these electrodes, I've come to believe that that will be the best solution for a lot of these different issues and problems that people face. Now, there's a lot of like, obviously, technical things that I skipped over there. Happy to go back over any one of them.

Benjamin: 00:09:19
But I just want to emphasize that point again that I've come to very strongly believe that DBS is going to be a part of not only my own future, but the future of a lot of human beings. Because currently it's approved for Parkinson's disease, DBS is anyway. Soon I hope adaptive DBS will be also approved by the FDA. That'll be later this year when Medtronic actually submits all their data to the FDA from this trial. We'll find out then if it passes the FDA's approval ratings or not. But that's just one indication as well. There are in total six or seven different indications that currently DBS is being thought for. For example, things like depression or OCD, even things like dementia as well are being tried right now using various kinds of deep brain simulators. Simply because the simple fact that, I mean, the neurons in your brain, yeah, they consume chemistry, but they produce electricity. And that was kind of a shocking fact. And I sold upon that because it sounds very simple and it's obviously more complicated than I've made it sound. But that is in essence what we're doing here. That's in essence what we are.

Hanh: 00:10:39
Now, did the experiment have any unexpected results?

Benjamin: 00:10:45
Yeah, so there's a lot of things that were unexpected. There's some kind of simpler things as well. Some of them were like things like, so I can't really swim again. Or for now anyways, I can't really swim because it requires a lot of bilateral upper and lower body control for somebody to swim properly. Before it, I could swim just fine in my parents pool or anywhere. But I remember about six months after I got this thing turned on, I tried to swim again and I almost drowned in my pool here. Because it becomes very hard at some point to actually know where your limbs are and then you have to think about so many things. And then you're trying to also paddle and it overwhelms your body and you just don't know what to do anymore. Maybe I have to relearn it as well. But that's just one of the more physical things that I've had to deal with. But there's been so many emotional and psychological things as well. I've had a couple of different bouts of mania so far. I don't know how much detail you want me to get into on those. But they've been things that I've experienced so far that I didn't expect and that my team didn't expect either.

Hanh: 00:11:56
So let's do a little deep dive on this. You touched on it a little bit. So as machine learning continues to advance and there's a growing interest in the potential of the technologies to augment human cognition and decision making. From improving memory to learning to enhancing problem solving skills. So AI could offer a range of benefits. So now how do you see the potential of using machine learning algorithms to augment human cognition and decision making in the future? Can we do a deeper dive on this?

Benjamin: 00:12:31
Yeah, I'm happy to speculate as to what I think. Although I got to caveat everything I'm about to say and say. This is all just my own speculation. I'm not an AI expert or even a neuroscientist. But from my experiences, I would say that it will play an instrumental role in understanding who we are going forward. I mean, a lot of the best minds in AI, they believe or what they're really trying to do when they're creating some of these AI machines is recreating human intelligence. Human intelligence today, it's still like the greatest frontier of intelligence that we know about. And that's essentially what they're trying to recreate either in their labs or through one of their algorithms as well. How can we recreate some process that humans are really good at right now? And then hopefully expand upon that, improve that by, you know, how can we improve upon human intelligence as well? Now, I believe that these algorithms and these DBS devices, yes, they will improve cognition and yes, they will enhance some of our abilities. But we also have to remember that that's not what they're being designed for. They're being designed to help people live a little better than they could yesterday. But I'm sure that in the future, there will be people, whether it be by DBS or by transcranial magnetic stimulation or these other techniques that's being developed, that they will then try and use that to augment their cognition in one way or another. But it'll take a lot of careful learning on the part of everyone involved because if you target one area of the brain versus like, so in my deep brain simulator, this is one example, I have at the ends of each contact, at the end of each electrode, there's four different contact points. They're about, they're spaced about 1.5 millimeters from one another. And if I move from one, if I light up one contact point versus the one above it, it has a radically different effect on not only my symptomology, but also on my cognition and on my behavior as well.

Benjamin: 00:14:31
And the fact that I can tune things to such an nth degree and modulate things in such a way, it's a scary thing to consider. But it's also, for me, it's been very, I guess the only way I can describe it, it's been very cool thing as well. Just like feel all the differences that can happen when you go from one contact point to the next. I mean, it's really an experience like nothing else I've ever experienced in my life anyway. And unless you've gone through it yourself, I just, yeah, it's a unique thing that not a lot of people have had the chance to really explore.

Hanh: 00:15:06
Right. Now, how do you see the possibility of merging multiple machine learning techniques to generate more complex brain simulation?

Benjamin: 00:15:15
Well, even for myself, so I'm imagining the future that I'm hoping soon. Well, not soon, but maybe in 10 or 20 years, this DBS, while it'll still help my motor symptoms, the disease, the Parkinson's, the underlying pathology that I'm experiencing will still be continuing. And so there'll be other parts of my brain that eventually are more impacted than they currently are. At which point I might need another electrode placed somewhere inside of my brain. Now, each part of your brain, like your brain is like a, I guess one way to describe it is like there are different modules inside of your brain. And knowing where to target each one is the key to neuroscience really. It's what a lot of people are trying to do in the neurosciences. But I think in the future that, so for one example is like the beta waves that are coming from my subthalamic nucleus, that's the part of my brain that's affected by Parkinson's disease, that algorithm that runs that part, it can't be the same algorithm then that will run like part of my frontal cortex, let's say for example, just because it's all different modules, it's all run by different programs. That's kind of a crude way of describing it, but I think that in the future I'll have maybe multiple different leads in my brain that impact me, that are each run by different algorithms. And they'll need different signals and different codes to know how to work and know where to work and know what to do.

Hanh: 00:16:41
You mentioned that machine learning algorithms can diagnose and treat mental health disorders by analyzing massive data sets. So by identifying the likelihood of mental health issues and tailoring the treatment, machine learning could improve mental health care. So how do you think machine learning algorithms can help people with mental health issues or psychological disorders?

Benjamin: 00:17:07
Well, first part is in diagnosis. I mean, we're still very bad at diagnosing these diseases, and we're still very bad at coming up with tailored solutions for each person's diagnosis. And that's simply because of the fact that we have like 20, 30 different labels maybe that we give to these mental health issues. And yet each person is really a universe themselves for the simple reason that there's no two brains that are alike because of the connections inside of a person's brain and any kind of health issues that a person is experiencing affects them individually as well. That fact I think should be one that haunts kind of this whole industry because every pharma person, most of the biotech people, they're all trying to find like one solution to something like depression. But depression is not one thing, and depression is not localized in one part of the brain either. Yes, there are certain like key nodes in the brain in which if you put an electrode inside of there, it might stimulate some central part of the brain that would help a lot of different people. But it'll have a different effect on each person that it's actually put into. Even these DBS things, even deep brain stimulators in Parkinson's, for example. Parkinson's is something that we think we have a good understanding of. But if you talk to the experts, if you know anything about this disease, you'll know how varied it is for one person to the next. Currently, there's about 20 million people in the world living with Parkinson's. I think there are about 20 million different cases of this disease as well. Well, 20 million different origin stories, 20 million different drivers of this disease going forward.

Hanh: 00:18:44
So then how do you tackle something that's that complex?

Benjamin: 00:18:47
Well, in my opinion, you have to be able to... It starts by really enabling the physicians and clinicians that are treating these people to be able to tailor solutions to them specifically. That is where AI I think can have a huge role to play because physicians, frankly, they can't understand a person's brain well enough to be able to diagnose a problem in them. The far future is one in which you have a brain scan of some kind. That brain scan will then be able to have a perfect map of your brain in it. In that perfect world then, we'll have a tailored solution to that individual. So they'll know exactly where the breaks are in that person's brain, and they'll be able to dive right into that specific spot. Probably have some narrow robots as well that would drive some kind of stimulation deep, deep, deep inside of a person's brain, and then they would be able to simulate exactly what they need. Right now, we're so far from that world, but I think that that's the world that we should be all working towards and trying to drive us towards.

Hanh: 00:19:47
Very true. As I mentioned before our call, on the receiving end of dementia and Parkinson's, there's too many people, loved ones in my life, my neighbor, people from church, my family members, my in-laws, and so forth. So it is an agonizing journey. So I appreciate you to share your journey. There is hope, there is work being done, and to bring awareness and education that despite all this, we can learn to move on and embrace life as much as we can. So thank you. Okay. So, okay. Now, can you discuss any challenges or limitations that you face in designing and implementing the experiment, and how did you overcame them?

Benjamin: 00:20:35
Do you mean in this trial, the PD trial in general? So I guess one of the bigger roadblocks for me anyway, one of the bigger zoning blocks, has been my relationship with Medtronic. I mean, I understand why there needs to be a space between patients and the companies that run trials for them, but I can't help but think that our whole experience will be enriched and that I would be able to help them a lot more if I could have a direct line of communication with them. I mean, I understand why the FDA is so scared of opening those channels and of opening those kinds of lines up, but I think it'll be fundamentally important to actually making progress in these kinds of fields because companies, because I think patients are obviously a wealth of information, but not just for their doctor, it's also for the companies that are developing these new therapies because of the simple fact that, I mean, the closest thing that they have right now is the models that they use to try and recreate these diseases, but each of the models are woefully inaccurate in a lot of different ways. I'm happy to talk about those, but I think that the human experience and the human beings that are actually in their trials, they can give them so much more information than anyone else possibly could. It would then allow them to better help the next person down the line or maybe even better help the person in front of them. So I wish that there was some way that I could actually have that direct line between me and these device manufacturers. At the moment, it's still impossible, but maybe in the future someone will come up with a better solution for actually running these trials that enables that bilateral communication between me and the companies that are designing these products.

Hanh: 00:22:22
That's true. You mentioned that the Parkinson's cases are unique to the individual, so you can't have a static model, and that's what it sounds like. And these models should be driven by AI algorithms to customize to the unique person with dementia or Parkinson's. So I'm with you on that. So now, how do you think machine learning algorithms could help people improve their creativity or problem solving?

Benjamin: 00:22:49
Well, there's a lot of things that I think humans are not very good at, but we think that we are pretty good at. I'm trying to think of some specific, like one good example is like drawing. I think that the best artists in the world, they can recreate with something like Chat, GPT, or some of these other newer AI models, these new AI systems can do simply because of the fact that I mean, the fact that I can query it and generate 20 different pictures that basically like snap of my fingers. That's something that no artist in the world could ever possibly do. So I think that there's a lot of things that we could export. A lot of the creative processes could possibly be exported to these kinds of machines. However, we also have to keep in mind that they won't be because they'll never be able to be as innovative as we can be. They'll never be able to be as creative really as we can be. I'm thinking actually about the book that I'm writing right now with Alfonso Fasano. And I just can't imagine a world in which any kind of AI could recreate what we made there because there's a lot of novelty in the book, in the book writing process. There's a lot of novelty in creative processes in general. I just can't see us living in a world in which they would actually be able to do our job for us, so to speak. But there's a lot of little things along the way that they might be able to help us with. There's a lot of drawings in our book, for example, that I wish we could kind of use AI to help us better recreate some of the things that we would like to see depicted in the book.

Hanh: 00:24:19
Very true. It certainly can give us some boost in our productivity and give us some facts. But some often you still have to fact check and so forth. So I agree with you. Now, the development of machine learning algorithm that interface with the human brain raises a range of ethical consideration. So these include questions around informed consent, data privacy, and potential harm to the individual. So now what ethical consideration do you think are important to take into account when experimenting with machine learning algorithms that interface with the human brain?

Benjamin: 00:24:59
I think the biggest one is that first point that you made. The informed consent process, it can't just be a document that you signed at the beginning of the trial. It should be a living, breathing document that is constantly updated. It's online, first of all. There should not be paper forms anymore because I'm still bound by the trial document that I signed two years ago before I had this simulator even inserted inside of me. I'm so legally bound by some of the things that are in there and also the fact that I've forgotten most of what's actually in there. I like to think that I'm a pretty well-informed patient and yet even I can't possibly keep up with these reams of documents that we get from these companies that we have to then sign our life away to essentially. So making the informed consent process a living document, I think, would help in a lot of different ways. It would also maybe allow for some of that backing forth because I wish I could inform what was in that document a little bit more prior to signing it or even after I signed it so that the next person behind me or that even I could benefit even more than I currently am. So that would be the biggest one for me is making that informed consent process into a living document rather than a stale piece of paper.

Hanh: 00:26:12
True.

Benjamin: 00:26:13
Or like a stale contract, essentially.

Hanh: 00:26:15
Very good point. All right, so I want to talk about the day in the life of one of the busiest neuromodulation clinics in the planet. So can you describe what neuromodulation is and how is it used to treat neurological and psychiatric disorders?

Benjamin: 00:26:31
Sure. Again, I'm not the expert here, but so I went to Toronto Western Hospital. It's been a day shadowing my neurologist there, Dr. Alfonso Fasano. I've spent actually this past weekend with him. We're finishing up our book together. So I've learned a lot through him, through observing him and by kind of watching his field as a whole kind of take off. I've also been to many different labs in neuromodulation all around the world. I just came back from Boston last week as well, which I got this chance to spend some time with Andreas Horn. He's a podcaster, but he's also a Harvard professor and he's got a very interesting take himself on neuromodulation. But essentially what it is, it's anything that tries to change the outputs of the brain based on the inputs that it receives. So there's a bunch of different kinds of techniques, there's invasive procedures and then there's non-invasive. But really, I mean, everything we do in our daily lives is modulating our behavior in some way. And anything that has a modulatory effect on our behavior is a neuromodulation device. From the food you eat to the things that you see in your daily life, every single thing gets imprinted on your brain and that impacts then every other thing that you're ever going to experience in your life. So yeah, so coming back to what is neuromodulation or sorry, so neuromodulation is essentially that. So it's anything that has an impact on the way that you can see the world around you. So that can be something like TBS is just one example, but then there's things like shunts for treating hydrocephalus in which there's actually a port that's inserted into your brain so that you can then change the direction and flow of CSF inside of you, of your cerebrospinal fluid. So yeah, so that's one way. There's also transcranial magnetic simulation, which I mentioned before. There's focus ultrasound, there's gene therapy. I mean, there's so many different things that are coming online pretty soon, I hope anyway. That will be classified as neuromodulation devices. There's ECG devices that can now not only record but also stimulate just by having a cap externally placed on the skull.

Benjamin: 00:28:54
So it's really a wide field. It's really wide ranging as well. However, there's also a lot of danger that comes in having all these new technologies and just giving them over to the public because no one really understands what's going on inside of another person's brain. And so that's why you really need somebody who's skilled looking after you if you're going to allow somebody to do that to you. Because I fear, for example, for a lot of people in the world, I mean, I've seen what happens when DBS, for example, goes wrong. And those instances make me very cautious about how we actually do this going forward because we can't just let anybody do whatever they want. It has to be regulated. It has to be controlled as well. But what is the best way to do that? We still haven't found exactly what the best way is. But I'm hoping going forward that we learn from our collective experiences, we get a little bit smarter each and every day about how we actually do these things.

Hanh: 00:29:57
So the field of neuromodulation is evolving and new technological advancements and innovations emerging all the time. So these developments are changing the way how we think about and treat neurological and psychiatric disorders. So can you share your thoughts on some of the most recent advancements in neuromodulation technology and how they are impacting in this field of psychiatric disorders?

Benjamin: 00:30:25
Sure. So let's say that one adaptive DBS is definitely at the forefront of a lot of these things. I mean, almost all these systems, if they're interfacing with our brains, they should be adapted. They should be what's called a closed-loop device because your brain is a closed-loop machine as well. I mean, so if you want to interface with it, you need to have something that can speak its language kind of. But then the other thing is the size of the devices as well. I mean, DBS is still a very blunt instrument in which a lead that's six centimeters long, I believe it's about 1.5 millimeters in diameter that gets inserted all the way through a person's brain. Now that causes damage along the way. So I'm hoping in the future what will happen is that much thinner devices, maybe they'll be based on graphene technologies, which are the smallest and thinnest metal, the most conductive metal that we could possibly envision. I'm hoping that soon enough those kinds of technologies will emerge as well that will allow us then to penetrate much deeper into a person's brain and tune whatever the simulator is in a much more precise way. Because like I said, it's very much imagine an olive right now. So my subthalamic nucleus is basically the size of an olive. Now imagine you have a pen or a pencil or maybe a straw even and it punctures that olive. That is essentially what we're doing right now with these latest DBS systems. In the future though, the idea is that something will come along, it'll hover kind of over the olive. So it'll be placed on top of the olive and then nanobots guided by machine learning programs will then come along and they'll extract the graphene tips that are so thin that you can't even see them.

Benjamin: 00:32:18
They're inside of the lead then and they enervate the target area in a much more precise way than we currently can do. I think that that will be a very exciting time, but we're still a long way from doing that. But there are some companies now online that are working on those solutions. Hopefully in the next 10 years or so, we'll see their products and then this field will really be able to take off.

Hanh: 00:32:43
So as the field of neurology and psychiatry continues to advance, there is an increasing curiosity surrounding the potential of neuromodulation as a treatment for neurological and psychiatric disorders. Well, given the limitations and side effects of traditional drug-based therapies, some experts suggest that neuromodulation could offer a safer and more effective alternative. So what is your thought on this? Are you hopeful? What's your take?

Benjamin: 00:33:16
Yeah, I'm very hopeful. I think that that will be the future for some people. However, chemicals will always play a role in what we're doing and pharmacists and big pharma will always be there as well. Neuromodulation, it's a very scary thing, but it's also very full of possibilities as well. But like I said before, we have to be very cautious about how we are actually doing this because there are so many examples of people that received one of these techniques. And yet, for example, they did not have the follow-up care that's necessary. Getting that crucial follow-up care is very, very important to actually developing and living with these conditions. For example, it took me five months after my surgery to recover properly. And then it was a long process. The programming as well took a long time. I mean, there's a lot of days where I just spent in my clinician's office with him. He had his iPad or his tablet in front of him and he was trying to find the right parameters for me. That was something that was very difficult to actually get through and required a lot of support as well. So somebody does not have the support system in place and it's very difficult. And then we also have to think about access to these devices. Right now, it's still very much restricted to the West and to the Western world, really. In the future, I'm hoping that someone will find a way to actually make these things more affordable for more people as well, because just Parkinson's alone, there's so many people out there in the world who could benefit from technology such as this, but they just don't have the access. They don't have the right people around them and then they don't have the funding to actually go out and get these kinds of things. It's a very expensive procedure as well.

Benjamin: 00:35:04
And so for all those reasons, I think we have to be very careful about how we actually do this, because if we just let anybody once get one like this without the proper care around them, without the proper team, without the support staff that they need, then probably have an endemic of people who are out there who are not getting the kind of care that they should be getting.

Hanh: 00:35:26
You touched on the ethical concerns earlier, but let's go through in detail. The ethical concerns and considerations surrounding the use of neuromodulation technology in treatment mental health disorders. What is your thought on that? I know that you mentioned previously that you were hopeful the contract would be a living document. Are there any other ethical concerns?

Benjamin: 00:35:56
I mean, there's a ton of other ethical concerns. A lot of them stem from just allowing like anybody wants to access these devices as well. But that was just what I just spoke about as well, because if anybody wants to can then can pick up some kind of like DBS devices, insert it into them, and start playing around with it. We'll learn a lot. That's for sure. I mean, that'll be one way to actually make progress. But at the same time, it'll destroy a lot of lives because there's people out there that that is playing with your brain. Playing with your brain is not something that anybody should be able to do. It should be something that's very difficult and very rigorous as well. Because not only does it bring me time to adjust the simulation, simulation then needs time to adjust your brain. That's what I meant by closing the loop before. There's a very intricate dance kind of between yourself and this device. And it takes time and it takes patience. And something that I don't think we'll ever be able to really speed up process of how we really do this properly. So that would be one big ethical concern for me is ensuring that people who have access to these kinds of devices, they take their time and they do it slowly.

Hanh: 00:37:11
So how may neuromodulation help us understand the brain and the causes of neurological and psychiatric disorders?

Benjamin: 00:37:21
So the cause is something that I think will be very difficult for us to actually ever get at. Because often these causes are 10 to 20 years into the past before any symptoms ever become apparent. How do we actually go back in time in terms of determining what is the actual cause? I mean, there are some epidemiological factors that are, of course, involved in this. For example, I mean, in MS, we recently learned that EBV, the Epstein-Barr virus, plays a huge role in whether or not someone will go on to develop multiple sclerosis. That's just one example, though, of kind of environmental or epidemiological factors that we need to start considering if we want to get at the cause of these actual diseases. And yeah, I don't think neuromodulation will be able to help in that regard. It will only be able to help us deal better with the symptoms that people are living with, help them live a little bit better lives down the road.

Hanh: 00:38:20
So can neuromodulation technology be used to improve cognitive or physical performance?

Benjamin: 00:38:28
Yeah, it can. Well, physically, I mean, I feel much more ape-like. So I remember that there was one point after my programming began in which I told my doctor and my whole team that was around me that I felt like going for a run in that moment. It was something I was not able to do before, but it was something I had the sudden urge to go out and do. And I felt as though I probably could have done that as well. But my team around me, they were smart enough to not let me go out and just run about and do whatever I wanted. So yes, it will definitely help improve physical mobility and help people enhance their physical performance as well. But the flip side of that is also the... And then it has also helped me in terms of like being able to smell better and taste the world around me as well. But then also my cognition, I feel like, and this is just subjective, but I feel as though it has improved. I mean, the subthalamic nucleus where the electrode in my brain is, it's involved in so many different networks and so many different processes in the brain that you can't just say like, Oh, I just want to turn on his mobility, his ability to move about the world a little bit better. That's not something that we have the precision or the know-how to be able to do right now. And so there will always be some kind of side effect or some... There will always be a knock-on effect to whatever you turn up in a person's brain that I don't think anytime soon we'll be able to understand an individual well enough to know exactly where to finally tune this person's mobility or this person's speech or behavior or any aspect of cognition.

Hanh: 00:40:12
Wow. Well, what a great wealth of knowledge and the depth that you share today on this topic. So how do you see the future of neuromodulation evolving and what are you hopeful or what's the most promising areas of research and development in this field?

Benjamin: 00:40:30
I'm hopeful that in the future we'll have much smaller devices, for one, that will be able to innovate and target the brain in a much more precise way than we currently have. They will all be run by these adaptive algorithms as well. And while they won't be used to help diagnose, they will be able to help treat and help thousands... I'm hoping to help millions of people eventually live a little bit better than they can, currently.

Hanh: 00:40:56
All right. Do you have anything else that you would like to add?

Benjamin: 00:41:01
Only that I hope that people that are listening will really take to heart that one message that every one of these people who will get diagnosed with any kind of illness, it's really you have to be able to treat them and look at them like they're individuals and that their disease is probably unique to them in one way or another. I mean, we have labels that we use and we kind of slap these diagnostic bumpers triggers on people and then they kind of like half-hazardly tell them to go about their day as if nothing happened. So you have to remember that every time you do that, there's a huge psychological toll that the patient has. And it's not only on them, it's also on their family as well. I mean, each person, there's a universe of people around them as well that we need to be considering and that needs to be cared for also.

Hanh: 00:41:49
Very true. Very true. Thank you so much. So in closing, well, are you ready to enter a world where machines can control your brains? It may sound like a science fiction, but rapid advancements in biomedical science are bringing us closer to that reality every day. This technology may impact the concept of free will and human consciousness. Can you imagine having a digital puppeteer controlling your every move? It begs the question, where does the line between human and machine begin and end? So today, in our conversation with Benjamin, we explore the use of neuromodulation, the groundbreaking technology that revolutionized the treatment of neurological and psychiatric disorders. It's like hitting a reset button on the brain, opening up new pathways to health and wellness. Think of the possibilities for improving the lives of those living with these conditions. So what's in store for us in the future? Will we become cyborgs or find a way to integrate technology with humanity? The possibilities are endless and the potential for improving lives is very exciting. So let's continue to push the boundaries of what's possible and unlock the mysteries of the brain. And thank you so much for joining us today. Next week, so please join us again, Thursday, March 9th, 11 a.m. Eastern Time, Chat GPT, AI, Automation, Revolutionize, Senior Care. Thank you again and see you next week.

Well, welcome everyone. I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast. Well, today I'm excited to bring together industry leaders from a variety of disciplines, including law, architecture, gerontology, culinary, and age technology. Well, these industries, uh, may seem vastly different on the surface. They all share a common goal, which is to better serve the aging population. As we all know, the aging population is rapidly growing, and with it comes a unique set of challenges and opportunities. What we believe that by bringing together experts from different industries, we can share know, Best practices and innovative ideas to help address these challenges and create a brighter future for our seniors. Our panel of industry leaders are eager to share their insights, experiences, and expertise with all of you today. So whether you're a seasoned professional in your field or a newcomer interested to learning more, this event is a perfect opportunity to expand your knowledge and connect with like-minded individuals. So get ready to be inspired, motivated, and engaged as we delve into how our industries can work together to best serve the aging population. So I will have my guests introduce themselves and their work. So let's have Bill, Bill Vicary share with us what he's doing.

Good morning. Thanks for, uh, having us this morning. And again, my name is Bill Vicary. And I have a company that I started by the name of Just Call Bill, and what that company is is we specialize in providing technology services for senior adults and their families. So what does that really mean? Well, I like to refer to it as almost a, a life cycle of technology to help seniors be better educated with their fam and, and be connected with their families and even senior living communities. I help them learn how to use their technology more confidently, effectively, and safely. So what kind of technology is that? Well, it could be a smartphone, a tablet, a computer, and even a smart television. Uh, most seniors when they move into their new home or in their home, um, they want that television to work in the first 20 minutes that they're setting up their new household. But I was referred to it as the old saying, you don't know what you don't know. Um, we're all working with a generation that didn't grow up with a smartphone in their hand, and so many times they're struggling with how do I stay connected to my family and friends? Do I have a flip phone? Or if I graduated from a flip phone to a smartphone, how do I use it? And really, the pandemic really pushed seniors to use technology. And many weren't ready and many still aren't ready or don't even want to. And what I mean by that is there were many assumptions made by professionals in the senior industry that assumptions, like, do, do your seniors have access to internet? Um, there is a big gap in connectivity in our country. Over two and a half million people don't even have broadband internet. Um, do they have the right hardware and software to even connect and, and do the right application? Well, geez, to get a vaccination, they needed an email address. Well, if you don't have internet and you don't have a computer, how do you get a vaccination? Or set up a telemed or use MyChart and then in turn it was, once I have it, well, does that mean I can, I, well, I have a phone, I have a flip phone. Can I do telemed through my flip phone? And the answer is no. But they don't know that they haven't had anybody teach them. So they're, that's one of the pain points. And, and so I work with, and we'll talk more about that, is, is the solutions what I'm providing? But the other thing I've found is that the majority of senior living communities in America do not provide technology to help connect their residents and their families. And even some cases having, even just as a little as robust wifi. And I'm sure Aaron might address some of these things later on in his, uh, aging and place concepts. But I spent 25 years in the engineering construction business. And this is as simple as designing it in at first or adapting, because what's happening is younger seniors are gonna demand, demand high connectivity wherever they live. And then lastly, I have, uh, one of the pain points I've found is the education and the importance of planning for your life as a senior. Um, I provide educational programs, but one of the things, the biggest thing I see is end of life planning. So what does that all mean? And so some of the services that I offer is, I teach people how to use their technology. It is a hands on class, either one-on-one in a group setting, and I've actually even done it virtually. And so they may have that flip foam, and I call it teaching the seniors how to win the technology tug of war. Because many times a senior goes to someone younger and asks them, can you show me how to add that picture to that text? Well, that younger person usually grabs the phone, they do it for 'em, and they hand it back. And over a period of time, this phone goes back and forth the tug of war syndrome, to the point where the senior says, nevermind, I didn't understand it. I didn't see what you did, and you didn't teach me. Well, the younger person, if you're asking a 10 year old grandson, he doesn't know how to teach you. And in turn, if you're asking your 40 year old daughter, they may not have time. So I figured out how seniors learn, so I take them on a journey to learn how to use their iPhone, their iPad, and even other parts of technology. Where it's also led is then because of that, I build a high level of trust. When I'm with the seniors is my motto is I want them to be better connected with their family and friends, to use their con, their technology more confidently, effectively, and safely, because there's really bad things that can happen if they don't know what they're doing using their technology as simple as a smartphone phone.

Right. And, you know, safety is everything because if they don't have access and their safety is at risk, uh, how unfortunate is that? Um, you know, when it comes to, let's say, some barriers, I would consider literacy, accessibility, affordability, and available time for training. I think those are areas that need some great improvement. So let me, we have time. I, I'd like to ask you a question now. How do you go about, uh, to create engaging and accessible educational programs for seniors with varying, uh, tech technological skills? How do you go about that?

Well, it, it, it's a challenge in, in having done it long enough now, so let's say in, in my iPhone class when people show up, they could have an iPhone five or six and a new 14. So, and some may say, well, I've been using my phone for five years and oh, I just bought it last week.. So what I try to do in, by about the second class, maybe the third is try to bring them up to a level because I ask them, what do you wanna learn? Well, most seniors are not gonna be very sophisticated in files and boulders and, and all the stuff because they're retired. Um, very few that I've run into in the seven years I've been doing this. So what I try to do is learn where they're at and then in turn ask them to be patient because obviously there's some beginners and there's some more inter intermediate. But while the time I'm finished, they're all pretty much at the same place. Now mind you, there's some beginners that may got to be a few steps above. So I even challenge them in the beginning is how tech savvy are you? They do kind of a self-assessment. Geez, I, I, I'm really ignorant to y I'm an expert. And depending on what that is, is what I encourage them to do or not do on their phone. So if they're not very tech savvy, I encourage them not to be paying bills online. I encourage them not to be doing things with their identity and their money so nothing bad can happen to them. So it, it is a challenge, but it is doable. Um, you can't bring 'em all to the level, you know, just because everyone's different and they also have, they wanna learn. some people there are there because, well, my kids told me I had to learn this. Well, that's not the right frame of mind going in

Mm-hmm. Well, great. That's, uh, a great glimpse of your, uh, initiatives. Now, if others wanna reach out to you, can you please share with us? How do you want that?

Absolutely. So, um, there's a website justcallbill.net. You can also call me. I'm located in Greenville, South Carolina, and that number is (864) 621-0224. Or an email address is bill@vicarymanagementgroup.com.

Great. Great. And of course there's always LinkedIn you can message Bill. Um, yeah. So, so thank you so much. Um, we have another, um, speaker that will share, I guess conflict resolution services she offers. It's Marcie, are you there?

I am here. Yes.

Great. Great. Well, hey, please, uh, introduce yourself, share with us your work and, um, what pain points are you.

Sure. Thank you Hanh for the opportunity. Greetings all. I'm Marcy Einhorn and I'm a New York attorney. And I offer conflict solutions to elders in their support circle wherever they might live. Changes in the life of an elder can trigger conflicts within the family, and it's that pain point that I'm here to help you. As we age, we may need to make changes in our housing, medical care, and finances, and we may need to bring more people into our circle to make these changes work to our advantage. Put all of that together. Important decisions to make big and small changes in the way we live and bringing new people together to help us. These are all potential triggers for conflict within the family, either between adult siblings, between the elder and the adult children, or even involving caregivers and invi advisors. And I offer a path through these conflicts that's outside of the traditional legal. I am trained to facilitate difficult conversations around care and planning for an elder through the process known as mediation. Mediation is a confidential, economical, and speedy method for, to bring people together, to work through difficult conversations in order to reach solutions in the best interests of the elder they care about. I think that mediation is one of the best kept secrets when it comes to resolving disputes. The types of disputes that arise when care or planning for an elderly usually fly below the radar for legal disputes and attorneys to get involved. They often involve very personal decisions that are not suitable for judicial involvement or decisions that might seem in insignificant if you brought them to a lawyer to help resolve, for example, what can a lawyer suggest when you think it's time to take away mom's car keys? Maybe you've seen some dents in the car or find the car parked at a crazy angle on the street or in the driveway. Is this something the lease legal system has a LE solution for? Definitely not, but a mediator can facilitate a conversation with mom and help the family problem solve together. Do mom's meds need adjusting? Is there something wrong with the mirrors or the brakes that a mechanic could look at? The legal system does not have a way to process these types of quality of life challenges., but a mediator can bring the family into the same room or the same zoom screen. Even family members who are estranged or uncommunicative for other reasons can begin a process for addressing these issues together. A wonderful feature of mediation is that it is completely confidential. That means that I don't share information I learned from one family member with another unless I'm given express permission to share it, and it's also very efficient. There are no filer requirements for documents. No information is required to be exchanged unless the family all agrees to exchange that. And mediation is very elder friendly. By that I mean that no matter what changes the elder may be going through, whether physical or cognitive, as a mediator, I find a way with the family's help for holding space for the elder to participate in the process at whatever level he or she is capable of. That might mean holding the meeting at the elder's home or residents allowing a friend or support person to attend the mediation or adjusting the process in whatever way is necessary to be sure the elder can observe and contribute to the discussions and any solutions that are suggested at whatever level they are capable. Finally, the family as a whole is my client. One family member may contact me first, another may agree to pay a large portion of my fee, but it is the family that is my client. As a trained mediator, I am completely neutral as to what the outcome of any conflict should look like. I may have my own opinions based on my personal or professional experience, but my opinions are not part of the mediation equation. It's what the family is looking for and can agree, uh, can agree on that steers the process from beginning to end and informs the outcome. So, uh, if there are any questions, Hanh, I can pause there or you more. Sure.

Um, this is, I know it was a big question. Certainly not to be, um, all answered in a short window of time, but just give us a little glimpse. So what are some typical legal issues should family consider when planning care, money, trust estates, and Medicaid? Just give us a little glimpse in a short time that we have

Of course. So you, as an elder, you wanna have all your planning documents in place. So whatever your state allows powers of attorney living wills, uh, uh, an estate plan in your, in a will, prepared under the supervision of an attorney. Um, these are all basic, you know, documents that everybody should have in place and people tend to resist, uh, preparing these documents. They're concerned that it might create, uh, disputes within the family, or they're not prepared to, uh, draft. They don't think it's time, it's never too early to get these documents in place. Even young adults should have these documents all prepared and in place for, so they don't have to think about what will happen should a circumstance arise that they're not capable of handling.

Mm-hmm. give us, um, a scenario. What would happen if you're not prepared and you don't have your paperwork and you, you know, at the later

Sure, sure. So, uh, say somebody starts having cognitive problems and they don't have a healthcare proxy filled out, appointing somebody to make medical decisions for them. And there might be financial assets that need to be, you know, the rent or a mortgage or banking issues. Financial issues need to be addressed and the person is losing the ability to address these issues themselves. Uh, somebody may bring a guardianship proceeding in the courts, and once a proceeding winds up in front of a judge, then the judge has the authority to determine who is gonna make decisions for the. So, uh, that is an unfortunate outcome. I mean, it's great that there are judges and proceedings in the courts to handle these problems for people who haven't filled out their documents, but you can completely circumvent a guardianship proceeding by having your own documents completed, uh, in a timely fashion.

Okay. Okay. Now as far as balancing everyone's needs, okay, so you have multiple, uh, loved ones. The, the, the person, the senior themselves. So how do you balance and help families talk about major, major, uh, life changing events, you know, end of life, long term, quality of life issues?

When there are disagreements and people are seeking mediation to help them get through these disagreements, the first rule is that the elder is always in the room, and that means whether or not they're physically or cognitively capable of being present for these conversations. It's their interests that are of superior of prime importance. And then the first step, in any, uh, of these mediations when families are in conflict, is to look for common ground. So siblings of various ages might completely disagree on what should happen next with mom's car keys, her driving, her medical care, her caregivers, but often the conversation begin, can begin with the siblings agreeing, well, we all love mom and we're all here because we wanna see the best outcome from her and for her. And from that, you can build on small, take small steps and, and, uh, address, you know, simpler, uh, disagreements, and then build towards the major issues that bring the family in for the, for support.

Yeah, I agree. And you know what? I think we all have to keep in mind that when your loved one pass away, you need to have a cohesive relationship to continue to mourn and celebrate their lives. Right? Because we don't want that to be the end of the relationship.

Absolutely.

So that's great. I appreciate your time, your expertise. Um, how do listeners reach out to you?

Thanks Hanh. So I have a website, it is my first name, Marcy at marcyeinhorn.com. There are links on there to connect, or you can email me directly at marcyesque@gmail.com. So either through my website or my email, I'd love to hear from you.

Great. Great. And of course there's always LinkedIn, so reach out

And

to Marcy.

Yes, thank you Han.

Of course. Okay. So Stephen, you are professor over at University of Florida. So please introduce yourself and the work that you do.

So, uh, I come to the general topic of geron technology from an academic perspective. Uh, I recently constructed a, a model, a theoretical model that tries to identify all the factors that influence whether or not odor persons are likely to adopt, use, uh, that whole category of technology referred to as geron technology. Everything from wearables, uh, mostly sensor technology, ambient sensor technology where they can detect whether or not something is arant happening in the house. Uh, they're not getting out of bed. Uh, uh, of course includes wearables in terms of, uh, diagnosing, uh, possible health issues. Includes telehealth, includes a broad spectrum of, of, uh, technology, often sensor-based, designed to assess whether or not something is going wrong in the older person's house. And I'm a big of a believer that you have to have a big picture, uh, to do careful research. In other words, you have. No ahead of time what kinds of, of issues you want to explore in your research before you actually do the research itself. So in, in one of the major lessons, of course, we know about adoption behaviors of older people is that obviously they, they want to assess the, uh, the usability and the usefulness of any product. And of course, that's well known and, and most research has, uh, is focusing on that. One of the, uh, aspects of my model, which emerged is the fact that, uh, we also have to understand what I call the overall context in which older people are making these decisions. So, we're very focused on JAR technology and, and, and why it's being adopted. But from the older person's perspective, uh, this is a new way of doing things. So when they evaluate whether or not they want to bring technology into their house, it's not just evaluating the technology. They're evaluating, well, is this gonna be a better way of doing things? And relying on my family member is gonna be a better thing, better way of doing things than relying on, on, on my, uh, social workers or care workers. That is to say the older person has to be convinced not only that technology is good and useful, but whether or not it's better or easier or more compatible with their way of thinking. Uh, then, uh, more traditional family oriented, uh, professional oriented services that they might otherwise have, uh, have acquired. The, the second major takeaway, uh, from, from my modeling is the fact that you have to understand that technology, even the best piece of technology, and, and we can say well designed and it's useful and it's easy to use, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, for the older person, that's not only what they're thinking about for older person, that technology is really, uh, transformative. I mean, it's, it's really changing their whole life. All of a sudden, uh, we're putting these ambient sensors in their homes and they realize that, you know, they're, they're, they're being monitored now. Make no mistake, I'm very much against, uh, uh, surveillance based on video cameras. I'm talking about ambient sensors that trigger something. No, no video, and I'm not even sure about audio as well.. Uh, but nonetheless, you're still living in a house and you know, you're saying, well, I wanna be careful what I'm doing, you know, because, uh, someone is, is watching me and I have to be on, on Greater Lance. Now think about that. Think about what we, what we really want in our home. We, we go to work and we come home. What is one of the danger, benefit of the home? It's a place where we can be private. It's a place where nobody's looking at us. We can stroll our clothes around. We can walk around in any way we want. And, and this is the one place where we can, uh, be ourselves. All of a sudden when we put this ambient technology into the house, that changes somewhat because the older person realizes that, oh, I'm not really alone. Somebody is, is actually. Uh, uh, detecting and, and monitoring, uh, my signs and, and I know it's a good thing, but nonetheless, I have this unsettling feeling that I'm always being watched. The other aspect, I think that they, they are concerned about is what I call, uh, collateral damages. And what do I mean by that? Once again, the technology may be great, but older persons are looking at something else. They're saying, well, if I put this technology into my house, uh, does that mean my family, my, my, my, my older daughter is gonna be less vigilant because she thinks I'm covered. I think I'm protected. I won't hear. I won't hear from my daughter as much. Uh, alternatively, uh, is the possibility that, uh, uh, although they mean well to monitor what I'm doing, uh, if I, if I screw up too many times, if I, you know, if I trigger that sensor that suggests that something's wrong, is that going to, in fact, accelerate the possibility that I have to move into a senior care facility? So even though the technology rightfully is, is, is designed to help me keep aging in place for longer, the only person in his or her mind says, in fact, this might expedite

It's true.

going into a senior care facility. Um, so there's this this sense of of of, of dehumanizing the house. Uh, even though we mean well, and even though the technology is working well, there's a sense of dehumanizing where upon, uh, instead of my family member, instead of a trusted social worker or care worker, monitoring and reacting to my problems. I'm, I'm being observed by, uh, well, let's, but bluntly, some artificial intelligence, uh, algorithm that's deciding whether or not, uh, the sensors are finding something that suggests as a problem. So older persons, uh, naturally fear this kind of, uh, , uh, uh, being monitored by, uh, this invisible hand to use the trite term, uh, that they not, that might otherwise not have occurred if in fact they had a, a, a watchful family member, uh, taking care of them. So this is a, a few, a few of the, there are only a few of the, of the, of the aspect, but the bottom line here is that, of course, we have to evaluate this technology in terms of its usefulness and usability. And, and, and, and this is, uh, we've done some wonderful research, uh, assessing whether or not products are, are capable of doing this. But I would just argue, and my model of course, covers that. But in addition, my theoretical model, it's called Elder Adopt, by the way. Elder adopt, uh, attempts to recognize that it's a transformative experience. and we're changing the whole context in which older persons are living. They're not just living, if you will, uh, in in their own home. They're living all of a sudden in a, in an environment that's in a new sensor environments, uh, that, uh, they're not used to and, and, and, and their families are not used to it. And, and just echoing, uh, uh, what, uh, uh, Marcy was saying, although I I haven't done it in such, in extreme forms, it's extraordinarily important that that family members then recognize that start again. It's not just older persons who are getting used to the new technology, it's also family members who have to get used to the new technology. They have to learn how to react, they have to learn how to evaluate when they get a signal. So it's not just a learning curve for older persons, it's also a learning curve for family members in terms of how they react to putting these new. Very useful and very important sensor technologies into the older person's, uh, home.

Mm-hmm., you know, I agree with you, Stephen. Um, you know, it's so important that technology can do what it can, but certainly it is not meant to replace a watchful family. Right. It, um, it gives you a preview whether they need help and some data points to take the proper action. But's definitely not meant to replace family coming by family, looking at, you know, the data that's provided and being responsible about it. Now, it's, it's interesting that you mentioned about, um, um, family members and caregivers encouraging their loved ones to embrace, uh, home safety tech, um, as, as a way to help maintain their independence and safety. But I think I wanna re, uh, reinforce the fact that you said that, but often it can make them feel that they're losing their control and privacy. So how do we, how, how do the loved ones ensure, or at least explain to mom or grandparents that that's not the case.

Well, I, I think, uh, I'm sure that, uh, our, our previous speaker, Marcy, would echo this. Uh, communication is key and, uh, I think it's, uh, one of the most difficult aspects actually of the whole family caregiving experience is that, uh, we, we have never, this is a new thing. We have never actually communicated. Uh, the daughter has often never communicated with her, her, her older mother, older father, uh, some of the sensitive aspects. They both have to deal with when, uh, when they get older and, and, and become somewhat more vulnerable. And so it, it is a learning curve. Uh, uh, we talk about privacy and, and, and, and let's be honest, many older persons are, are reluctant to share with their oldest daughter their assets or, or, or their fears. Uh, because there's a interesting relationship, for example, between an older mother and an older daughter. The this mutual respect, uh, this a sense of, uh, ma uh, respecting each other's autonomy. So all of a sudden when we talk about, uh, smart technology decisions, , we have to totally change our mindset and say, uh, mother, I mean, uh, uh, when the signal comes, uh, are you gonna be upset that, that I call, or, or, or mother, uh, if I don't call us often because I think you're protected, is that gonna bother you? Or alternatively, mother, you know, I'm still gonna call 10,000 times a day to see how you are, even though the ambient sensors are designed to do just the same thing. So, so communication, uh, we, we goodly use the word, but in fact it, it, one of the most, um, difficult and challenging aspects of caregiving is to, to have this honesty and to have this open. Uh, uh, between the mother and her, uh, uh, older mother and her daughter or other children, uh, this is easier send than done. And, and, and because it, it, it's hard because we've never learned how to do it. We often haven't had that necessity of having those deep, earnest conversations, uh, uh, with our older daughters and, and with our older sons and daughter-in-laws. It's a new thing. So this is, uh, this is a learning curve, but obviously it's most important.

Right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for your expertise and the model that you're working on now. How can listeners reach out to you?

So, uh, two ways. One, uh, most easiest way I think is probably, uh, is to, uh, have a LinkedIn address, uh, very visible in LinkedIn. Also, uh, you can reach me on Facebook as well, uh, and, uh, I'm very happy to supply a copy of, of my paper or papers or anyone who is requesting it's just golant@ufl.edu and I'm very happy to respond and, and try to be as helpful as I can.

Great. Great. Well, thank you so much. All right. So we're gonna have Aaron from Aging in Place, uh, share with us his expertise and um, go ahead and please introduce yourself.

Hi Han. Thanks for having everybody today. What a great panel. Uh, my name's Aaron Murphy. I'm owner of ADM Architecture and founder of ForeverHome, and what we've done in our architecture firm has helped many dozens. People, hundreds of people with aging in place solutions and universal design to create a forever home. The launch of Forever Home is to help on the consumer side. We work with proactive 50 plus consumers who are searching for housing solutions that create successful outcomes through home owner. In this new extended longevity forecast and for their future, uh, we're also training business owners. Uh, it was time for me to move after 13 years of B2C coaching and teaching that makes our phone ring at our architecture firm. Now, it was time for me to leverage that and, and train the trainer. So we're also working with nationally at Forever Home small business owners who wanna lead their company and their community to help more clients with aging in place housing solutions so they can learn to do what we've done, which is to own your niche locally. As the local expert for 50 plus housing solutions. So that applies to the occupational therapist, the remodeler, the general contractor, and the, and the design community. So that's what we've got going on and our industry, and I hope you've noticed, I think everybody has that. We all have our own silos, but quite honestly, it's a function of, uh, taking all the silos and, and bridging the aisle, right? Crossing the aisle, holding hands, and looking at the collaborative solution for everybody because whether it's how you get your meals, how you get your transportation, how you get conflict resolution with Marcy, how you get home monitoring that works for everybody. How you get technology to interact with your home as bill rec had referenced. All of those things go together. And so really what you're wanting to do here is create what you're thriving in place. Dream team, that's what we're trying to accomplish at a national level for everybody is getting people together, Han like you are doing today and getting us to all have those conversations and recognize the overlap. Uh, you know, I went to Tokyo to do a TV show on aging in place at the International Home Health Expo in 2014, and. Oaky who we only know for printers. They were doing home monitoring and totos, studying sinks that go up and down. And you know, lively has a key fob version of what Steven was talking about, which all it does is you put one on the fridge, you put one on the car door, you put one on the pill box. We know that dad's moving around and doing what he's supposed to be doing today. No camera, no audio, cuz he is rig